Steeling another Ride

Lost track of time yesterday morning and hopped on the bike at 8:15 instead of 7:45. Rode fast but still missed the group. Now I normally know where they're going since they are as predictable as sunrise. But even going fast I didn't catch them at the top of the hill where they would have normally waited at least twice for slower set.

On the way down a drop I got hit by a strong side wind. I braced for the effect and ,,,,,, nothing. I don't know if this Basso Loto has more directional stability or if I'm simply more relaxed on the bike because it rides so much better than a stiff riding C40. On the C40 a gust like that would have pushed me clear across the road.

I rode through Pleasanton and they weren't there. I continued on since I knew that there was a cafe in Sunol that they could stop at. There was an awful lot of traffic on the side road and I decided that that *)( ) Goggle Maps was directing people onto the side road because of traffic jams ahead. There sure weren't any on the adjacent freeway but more and more traffic was buzzing by me at increasingly unsafe speeds. Coming around a turn and starting uphill a mile from the stop sign at Niles Canyon the traffic was stopped. All of those cars that had been driving by WAY too close were stopped and although many of them had pulled into the side trying to block me I could get around them. Every car that had passed me in the last 4 miles was stopped and I passed them all.

Getting up to the stop sign it's a three way stop with traffic in all directions so I turned right and accelerated up to 22 across the narrow bridge and pulled into Sunol. Riding into town all of the businesses were boarded over. This is Governor Moonbeam Brown's thriving economy. By this time I had been riding pretty much flat out to catch the group and they weren't here so they must have taken another route. Very unlike them.

But I was worn down so I had to ride slow back the 10 miles to the climb back over the hill and into Castro Valley.

Oddly enough again the steel bike was showing it's merits. Although my legs were tired from pushing, my back, my shoulders, my neck and my tush were not hurting as they ALWAYS would be on the C40.

As I was riding around the turns I could accelerate on the Basso which I could not do on the C40 because it was so rigid that it kept the wheels off the ground a lot.

I hit the climb and I seemed to be climbing a lot faster than I did on the lighter carbon bikes. Maybe this was just my screwed up memory. But there was a heck of a headwind and I was still going up at 7 to 11 mph on a 5% climb when that would normally be closer to 6 according to my memory. As I got to the top my butt was hurting some. But as I cleared the top and started down this disappeared almost instantly which it never did before.

The Basso is 63 cm C-T and the C40 Large is a 59 C-T of toptube. But the measurements between handbars, saddle center and pedals is the same. So the only thing I can attribute this much softer ride to is the steel tubes.

On the downhill I hit 40 mph on a fairly mild descent. On the C40 by this time I'd be so sore that I'd be more or less coasting.

I took a detour to put in a couple of extra miles but it turned out that they were the same distance so I ended up getting home at 12:30. 55 miles, 2,000 ft of climbing with a max of 10% and an average speed of 13.6 which is about a mph faster than normal for a ride of this sort. Near home I had been forced to stop because these new "light" wheel quick releases do not hold well and the rear wheel was pulling over on hard accelerations to make lights and it was like slamming on the brakes.

If you are trying to decide on a new carbon fiber bike you might want to look at the custom steel offerings from Tommasini for about half the price. And they can talk about carbon fiber breaking all they want and you needn't pay the slightest attention.

On 8/26/2016 2:58 PM, wrote:
Lost track of time yesterday morning and hopped on the bike at 8:15 instead of 7:45. Rode fast but still missed the group. Now I normally know where they're going since they are as predictable as sunrise. But even going fast I didn't catch them at the top of the hill where they would have normally waited at least twice for slower set.

On the way down a drop I got hit by a strong side wind. I braced for the effect and ,,,,,, nothing. I don't know if this Basso Loto has more directional stability or if I'm simply more relaxed on the bike because it rides so much better than a stiff riding C40. On the C40 a gust like that would have pushed me clear across the road.

I rode through Pleasanton and they weren't there. I continued on since I knew that there was a cafe in Sunol that they could stop at. There was an awful lot of traffic on the side road and I decided that that *)( ) Goggle Maps was directing people onto the side road because of traffic jams ahead. There sure weren't any on the adjacent freeway but more and more traffic was buzzing by me at increasingly unsafe speeds. Coming around a turn and starting uphill a mile from the stop sign at Niles Canyon the traffic was stopped. All of those cars that had been driving by WAY too close were stopped and although many of them had pulled into the side trying to block me I could get around them. Every car that had passed me in the last 4 miles was stopped and I passed them all.

Getting up to the stop sign it's a three way stop with traffic in all directions so I turned right and accelerated up to 22 across the narrow bridge and pulled into Sunol. Riding into town all of the businesses were boarded over. This is Governor Moonbeam Brown's thriving economy. By this time I had been riding pretty much flat out to catch the group and they weren't here so they must have taken another route. Very unlike them.

But I was worn down so I had to ride slow back the 10 miles to the climb back over the hill and into Castro Valley.

Oddly enough again the steel bike was showing it's merits. Although my legs were tired from pushing, my back, my shoulders, my neck and my tush were not hurting as they ALWAYS would be on the C40.

As I was riding around the turns I could accelerate on the Basso which I could not do on the C40 because it was so rigid that it kept the wheels off the ground a lot.

I hit the climb and I seemed to be climbing a lot faster than I did on the lighter carbon bikes. Maybe this was just my screwed up memory. But there was a heck of a headwind and I was still going up at 7 to 11 mph on a 5% climb when that would normally be closer to 6 according to my memory. As I got to the top my butt was hurting some. But as I cleared the top and started down this disappeared almost instantly which it never did before.

The Basso is 63 cm C-T and the C40 Large is a 59 C-T of toptube. But the measurements between handbars, saddle center and pedals is the same. So the only thing I can attribute this much softer ride to is the steel tubes.

On the downhill I hit 40 mph on a fairly mild descent. On the C40 by this time I'd be so sore that I'd be more or less coasting.

I took a detour to put in a couple of extra miles but it turned out that they were the same distance so I ended up getting home at 12:30. 55 miles, 2,000 ft of climbing with a max of 10% and an average speed of 13.6 which is about a mph faster than normal for a ride of this sort. Near home I had been forced to stop because these new "light" wheel quick releases do not hold well and the rear wheel was pulling over on hard accelerations to make lights and it was like slamming on the brakes.

If you are trying to decide on a new carbon fiber bike you might want to look at the custom steel offerings from Tommasini for about half the price. And they can talk about carbon fiber breaking all they want and you needn't pay the slightest attention.

Jan Heine of _Bicycle Quarterly_ talks about what he calls a "planing"
effect with steel bikes of (what he considers) optimum flexibility. As
I understand it, he believes the flex somehow allows the bike to sort of
synchronize with the rider's pedal strokes and make the ride easier than
with a rigid bike. ("Planing" is apparently an allusion to a speedboat
skimming the surface of the water, rather than plowing through it.)

I'm not saying I believe in "planing" in bikes. But you might be
interested that there's at least one guy who would nod knowingly at your
narration.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/26/2016 2:58 PM, wrote:
Lost track of time yesterday morning and hopped on the bike at 8:15
instead of 7:45. Rode fast but still missed the group. Now I normally
know where they're going since they are as predictable as sunrise. But
even going fast I didn't catch them at the top of the hill where they
would have normally waited at least twice for slower set.

On the way down a drop I got hit by a strong side wind. I braced for the
effect and ,,,,,, nothing. I don't know if this Basso Loto has more
directional stability or if I'm simply more relaxed on the bike because
it rides so much better than a stiff riding C40. On the C40 a gust like
that would have pushed me clear across the road.

I rode through Pleasanton and they weren't there. I continued on since I
knew that there was a cafe in Sunol that they could stop at. There was
an awful lot of traffic on the side road and I decided that that *)( )
Goggle Maps was directing people onto the side road because of traffic
jams ahead. There sure weren't any on the adjacent freeway but more and
more traffic was buzzing by me at increasingly unsafe speeds. Coming
around a turn and starting uphill a mile from the stop sign at Niles
Canyon the traffic was stopped. All of those cars that had been driving
by WAY too close were stopped and although many of them had pulled into
the side trying to block me I could get around them. Every car that had
passed me in the last 4 miles was stopped and I passed them all.

Getting up to the stop sign it's a three way stop with traffic in all
directions so I turned right and accelerated up to 22 across the narrow
bridge and pulled into Sunol. Riding into town all of the businesses
were boarded over. This is Governor Moonbeam Brown's thriving economy.
By this time I had been riding pretty much flat out to catch the group
and they weren't here so they must have taken another route. Very unlike them.

But I was worn down so I had to ride slow back the 10 miles to the climb
back over the hill and into Castro Valley.

Oddly enough again the steel bike was showing it's merits. Although my
legs were tired from pushing, my back, my shoulders, my neck and my tush
were not hurting as they ALWAYS would be on the C40.

As I was riding around the turns I could accelerate on the Basso which I
could not do on the C40 because it was so rigid that it kept the wheels
off the ground a lot.

I hit the climb and I seemed to be climbing a lot faster than I did on
the lighter carbon bikes. Maybe this was just my screwed up memory. But
there was a heck of a headwind and I was still going up at 7 to 11 mph
on a 5% climb when that would normally be closer to 6 according to my
memory. As I got to the top my butt was hurting some. But as I cleared
the top and started down this disappeared almost instantly which it never did before.

The Basso is 63 cm C-T and the C40 Large is a 59 C-T of toptube. But the
measurements between handbars, saddle center and pedals is the same. So
the only thing I can attribute this much softer ride to is the steel tubes.

On the downhill I hit 40 mph on a fairly mild descent. On the C40 by
this time I'd be so sore that I'd be more or less coasting.

I took a detour to put in a couple of extra miles but it turned out that
they were the same distance so I ended up getting home at 12:30. 55
miles, 2,000 ft of climbing with a max of 10% and an average speed of
13.6 which is about a mph faster than normal for a ride of this sort.
Near home I had been forced to stop because these new "light" wheel
quick releases do not hold well and the rear wheel was pulling over on
hard accelerations to make lights and it was like slamming on the brakes.

If you are trying to decide on a new carbon fiber bike you might want to
look at the custom steel offerings from Tommasini for about half the
price. And they can talk about carbon fiber breaking all they want and
you needn't pay the slightest attention.

Jan Heine of _Bicycle Quarterly_ talks about what he calls a "planing"
effect with steel bikes of (what he considers) optimum flexibility. As
I understand it, he believes the flex somehow allows the bike to sort of
synchronize with the rider's pedal strokes and make the ride easier than
with a rigid bike. ("Planing" is apparently an allusion to a speedboat
skimming the surface of the water, rather than plowing through it.)

I'm not saying I believe in "planing" in bikes. But you might be
interested that there's at least one guy who would nod knowingly at your
narration.



The same people that are saying that comfort comes from tires and tire
pressure say that a steel frame is much more comfortable than Al or CF.
That is not my experience in 35 years of riding steel, aluminum, titanium
and CF frames. That C40 must have been a very ****ty bike/frame.

--
Lou

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 11:58:36 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Lost track of time yesterday morning and hopped on the bike at 8:15 instead of 7:45. Rode fast but still missed the group. Now I normally know where they're going since they are as predictable as sunrise. But even going fast I didn't catch them at the top of the hill where they would have normally waited at least twice for slower set.

On the way down a drop I got hit by a strong side wind. I braced for the effect and ,,,,,, nothing. I don't know if this Basso Loto has more directional stability or if I'm simply more relaxed on the bike because it rides so much better than a stiff riding C40. On the C40 a gust like that would have pushed me clear across the road.

I rode through Pleasanton and they weren't there. I continued on since I knew that there was a cafe in Sunol that they could stop at. There was an awful lot of traffic on the side road and I decided that that *)( ) Goggle Maps was directing people onto the side road because of traffic jams ahead. There sure weren't any on the adjacent freeway but more and more traffic was buzzing by me at increasingly unsafe speeds. Coming around a turn and starting uphill a mile from the stop sign at Niles Canyon the traffic was stopped. All of those cars that had been driving by WAY too close were stopped and although many of them had pulled into the side trying to block me I could get around them. Every car that had passed me in the last 4 miles was stopped and I passed them all.

Getting up to the stop sign it's a three way stop with traffic in all directions so I turned right and accelerated up to 22 across the narrow bridge and pulled into Sunol. Riding into town all of the businesses were boarded over. This is Governor Moonbeam Brown's thriving economy. By this time I had been riding pretty much flat out to catch the group and they weren't here so they must have taken another route. Very unlike them.

But I was worn down so I had to ride slow back the 10 miles to the climb back over the hill and into Castro Valley.

Oddly enough again the steel bike was showing it's merits. Although my legs were tired from pushing, my back, my shoulders, my neck and my tush were not hurting as they ALWAYS would be on the C40.

As I was riding around the turns I could accelerate on the Basso which I could not do on the C40 because it was so rigid that it kept the wheels off the ground a lot.

I hit the climb and I seemed to be climbing a lot faster than I did on the lighter carbon bikes. Maybe this was just my screwed up memory. But there was a heck of a headwind and I was still going up at 7 to 11 mph on a 5% climb when that would normally be closer to 6 according to my memory. As I got to the top my butt was hurting some. But as I cleared the top and started down this disappeared almost instantly which it never did before.

The Basso is 63 cm C-T and the C40 Large is a 59 C-T of toptube. But the measurements between handbars, saddle center and pedals is the same. So the only thing I can attribute this much softer ride to is the steel tubes.

On the downhill I hit 40 mph on a fairly mild descent. On the C40 by this time I'd be so sore that I'd be more or less coasting.

I took a detour to put in a couple of extra miles but it turned out that they were the same distance so I ended up getting home at 12:30. 55 miles, 2,000 ft of climbing with a max of 10% and an average speed of 13.6 which is about a mph faster than normal for a ride of this sort. Near home I had been forced to stop because these new "light" wheel quick releases do not hold well and the rear wheel was pulling over on hard accelerations to make lights and it was like slamming on the brakes.

If you are trying to decide on a new carbon fiber bike you might want to look at the custom steel offerings from Tommasini for about half the price. And they can talk about carbon fiber breaking all they want and you needn't pay the slightest attention.

It sounds like your C40 sucked. I love my SuperSix -- the Roubaix, too, but it has a different personality. The Tommasini frames are in the $2300-2500 range. I got my SuperSix on sale for under $2500 complete (SRAM Red).

I think I would go with the Tommasini in the 63cm size (C/T) which, in the usual Italian fashion has a slightly short TT, and it is not clear from the page what the chainstay/WB lengths are. The weight, 3.527 in a 55cm frame omits the 2lb fork. http://tommasinibicycle.com/tommasini-tecno/ You can still build a pretty light bike I suppose. It seems like an option, but not really a cheap one. I'm sure there are cheaper steel options, but certainly not as flashy.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 4:25:17 PM UTC-4, Lou Holtman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/26/2016 2:58 PM, wrote:
Lost track of time yesterday morning and hopped on the bike at 8:15
instead of 7:45. Rode fast but still missed the group. Now I normally
know where they're going since they are as predictable as sunrise. But
even going fast I didn't catch them at the top of the hill where they
would have normally waited at least twice for slower set.

On the way down a drop I got hit by a strong side wind. I braced for the
effect and ,,,,,, nothing. I don't know if this Basso Loto has more
directional stability or if I'm simply more relaxed on the bike because
it rides so much better than a stiff riding C40. On the C40 a gust like
that would have pushed me clear across the road.

I rode through Pleasanton and they weren't there. I continued on since I
knew that there was a cafe in Sunol that they could stop at. There was
an awful lot of traffic on the side road and I decided that that *)( )
Goggle Maps was directing people onto the side road because of traffic
jams ahead. There sure weren't any on the adjacent freeway but more and
more traffic was buzzing by me at increasingly unsafe speeds. Coming
around a turn and starting uphill a mile from the stop sign at Niles
Canyon the traffic was stopped. All of those cars that had been driving
by WAY too close were stopped and although many of them had pulled into
the side trying to block me I could get around them. Every car that had
passed me in the last 4 miles was stopped and I passed them all.

Getting up to the stop sign it's a three way stop with traffic in all
directions so I turned right and accelerated up to 22 across the narrow
bridge and pulled into Sunol. Riding into town all of the businesses
were boarded over. This is Governor Moonbeam Brown's thriving economy.
By this time I had been riding pretty much flat out to catch the group
and they weren't here so they must have taken another route. Very unlike them.

But I was worn down so I had to ride slow back the 10 miles to the climb
back over the hill and into Castro Valley.

Oddly enough again the steel bike was showing it's merits. Although my
legs were tired from pushing, my back, my shoulders, my neck and my tush
were not hurting as they ALWAYS would be on the C40.

As I was riding around the turns I could accelerate on the Basso which I
could not do on the C40 because it was so rigid that it kept the wheels
off the ground a lot.

I hit the climb and I seemed to be climbing a lot faster than I did on
the lighter carbon bikes. Maybe this was just my screwed up memory. But
there was a heck of a headwind and I was still going up at 7 to 11 mph
on a 5% climb when that would normally be closer to 6 according to my
memory. As I got to the top my butt was hurting some. But as I cleared
the top and started down this disappeared almost instantly which it never did before.

The Basso is 63 cm C-T and the C40 Large is a 59 C-T of toptube. But the
measurements between handbars, saddle center and pedals is the same. So
the only thing I can attribute this much softer ride to is the steel tubes.

On the downhill I hit 40 mph on a fairly mild descent. On the C40 by
this time I'd be so sore that I'd be more or less coasting.

I took a detour to put in a couple of extra miles but it turned out that
they were the same distance so I ended up getting home at 12:30. 55
miles, 2,000 ft of climbing with a max of 10% and an average speed of
13.6 which is about a mph faster than normal for a ride of this sort.
Near home I had been forced to stop because these new "light" wheel
quick releases do not hold well and the rear wheel was pulling over on
hard accelerations to make lights and it was like slamming on the brakes.

If you are trying to decide on a new carbon fiber bike you might want to
look at the custom steel offerings from Tommasini for about half the
price. And they can talk about carbon fiber breaking all they want and
you needn't pay the slightest attention.

Jan Heine of _Bicycle Quarterly_ talks about what he calls a "planing"
effect with steel bikes of (what he considers) optimum flexibility. As
I understand it, he believes the flex somehow allows the bike to sort of
synchronize with the rider's pedal strokes and make the ride easier than
with a rigid bike. ("Planing" is apparently an allusion to a speedboat
skimming the surface of the water, rather than plowing through it.)

I'm not saying I believe in "planing" in bikes. But you might be
interested that there's at least one guy who would nod knowingly at your
narration.



The same people that are saying that comfort comes from tires and tire
pressure say that a steel frame is much more comfortable than Al or CF.
That is not my experience in 35 years of riding steel, aluminum, titanium
and CF frames. That C40 must have been a very ****ty bike/frame.

--
Lou

Don't misunderstand my post. I do most of my miles on either a super-rigid
Cannondale touring bike, or an old steel custom tandem which is a different
species entirely. Me, I like a rigid frame and don't care if it "planes" or
not - whatever that means.

(And I don't worry much about bike weight, although that's a different
conversation entirely.)

- Frank Krygowski

On 8/26/2016 1:58 PM, wrote:
Lost track of time yesterday morning and hopped on the bike
-snip ride report-

Near home I had been forced to stop because these new "light" wheel quick releases do not hold well and the rear wheel was pulling over on hard accelerations to make lights and it was like slamming on the brakes.

Get a regular steel QR and lube the cam. They have more
closing force and bite better too. None of that matters with
single-point ends but it does (as you found) with classic
horizontal ends.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 1:25:17 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/26/2016 2:58 PM, wrote:
Lost track of time yesterday morning and hopped on the bike at 8:15
instead of 7:45. Rode fast but still missed the group. Now I normally
know where they're going since they are as predictable as sunrise. But
even going fast I didn't catch them at the top of the hill where they
would have normally waited at least twice for slower set.

On the way down a drop I got hit by a strong side wind. I braced for the
effect and ,,,,,, nothing. I don't know if this Basso Loto has more
directional stability or if I'm simply more relaxed on the bike because
it rides so much better than a stiff riding C40. On the C40 a gust like
that would have pushed me clear across the road.

I rode through Pleasanton and they weren't there. I continued on since I
knew that there was a cafe in Sunol that they could stop at. There was
an awful lot of traffic on the side road and I decided that that *)( )
Goggle Maps was directing people onto the side road because of traffic
jams ahead. There sure weren't any on the adjacent freeway but more and
more traffic was buzzing by me at increasingly unsafe speeds. Coming
around a turn and starting uphill a mile from the stop sign at Niles
Canyon the traffic was stopped. All of those cars that had been driving
by WAY too close were stopped and although many of them had pulled into
the side trying to block me I could get around them. Every car that had
passed me in the last 4 miles was stopped and I passed them all.

Getting up to the stop sign it's a three way stop with traffic in all
directions so I turned right and accelerated up to 22 across the narrow
bridge and pulled into Sunol. Riding into town all of the businesses
were boarded over. This is Governor Moonbeam Brown's thriving economy.
By this time I had been riding pretty much flat out to catch the group
and they weren't here so they must have taken another route. Very unlike them.

But I was worn down so I had to ride slow back the 10 miles to the climb
back over the hill and into Castro Valley.

Oddly enough again the steel bike was showing it's merits. Although my
legs were tired from pushing, my back, my shoulders, my neck and my tush
were not hurting as they ALWAYS would be on the C40.

As I was riding around the turns I could accelerate on the Basso which I
could not do on the C40 because it was so rigid that it kept the wheels
off the ground a lot.

I hit the climb and I seemed to be climbing a lot faster than I did on
the lighter carbon bikes. Maybe this was just my screwed up memory. But
there was a heck of a headwind and I was still going up at 7 to 11 mph
on a 5% climb when that would normally be closer to 6 according to my
memory. As I got to the top my butt was hurting some. But as I cleared
the top and started down this disappeared almost instantly which it never did before.

The Basso is 63 cm C-T and the C40 Large is a 59 C-T of toptube. But the
measurements between handbars, saddle center and pedals is the same. So
the only thing I can attribute this much softer ride to is the steel tubes.

On the downhill I hit 40 mph on a fairly mild descent. On the C40 by
this time I'd be so sore that I'd be more or less coasting.

I took a detour to put in a couple of extra miles but it turned out that
they were the same distance so I ended up getting home at 12:30. 55
miles, 2,000 ft of climbing with a max of 10% and an average speed of
13.6 which is about a mph faster than normal for a ride of this sort.
Near home I had been forced to stop because these new "light" wheel
quick releases do not hold well and the rear wheel was pulling over on
hard accelerations to make lights and it was like slamming on the brakes.

If you are trying to decide on a new carbon fiber bike you might want to
look at the custom steel offerings from Tommasini for about half the
price. And they can talk about carbon fiber breaking all they want and
you needn't pay the slightest attention.

Jan Heine of _Bicycle Quarterly_ talks about what he calls a "planing"
effect with steel bikes of (what he considers) optimum flexibility. As
I understand it, he believes the flex somehow allows the bike to sort of
synchronize with the rider's pedal strokes and make the ride easier than
with a rigid bike. ("Planing" is apparently an allusion to a speedboat
skimming the surface of the water, rather than plowing through it.)

I'm not saying I believe in "planing" in bikes. But you might be
interested that there's at least one guy who would nod knowingly at your
narration.



The same people that are saying that comfort comes from tires and tire
pressure say that a steel frame is much more comfortable than Al or CF.
That is not my experience in 35 years of riding steel, aluminum, titanium
and CF frames. That C40 must have been a very ****ty bike/frame.

I rode today with a guy who has a Landshark custom OS steel frame (don't know the tube brand, but its lugless, modern and light) and a Landshark custom CF frame. They are very close in weight and have the same geometry. He likes the steel frame better because it is stiffer climbing. Both have carbon forks. He also admitted to like the steel bike because of the wheels -- some ENVE CF tubular wheels. He also has the Chris King "angry bee" hubs, which are kind of annoying. It's probably a 56cm frame or smaller.

I think in a smaller frame, you can get practically any ride you want in any decent material without much of a weight penalty. Modern steel works fine.. I think in larger sizes, weight and rigidity (or lack of rigidity) play more of a role. I never found CF "too stiff." But then again, I never found aluminum too stiff -- not even the first generation Cannondale straight gauge 6061. The bikes that "beat me up" were super flexible and inefficient or simply did not fit right.

-- Jay Beattie.

jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 1:25:17 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/26/2016 2:58 PM, wrote:
Lost track of time yesterday morning and hopped on the bike at 8:15
instead of 7:45. Rode fast but still missed the group. Now I normally
know where they're going since they are as predictable as sunrise. But
even going fast I didn't catch them at the top of the hill where they
would have normally waited at least twice for slower set.

On the way down a drop I got hit by a strong side wind. I braced for the
effect and ,,,,,, nothing. I don't know if this Basso Loto has more
directional stability or if I'm simply more relaxed on the bike because
it rides so much better than a stiff riding C40. On the C40 a gust like
that would have pushed me clear across the road.

I rode through Pleasanton and they weren't there. I continued on since I
knew that there was a cafe in Sunol that they could stop at. There was
an awful lot of traffic on the side road and I decided that that *)( )
Goggle Maps was directing people onto the side road because of traffic
jams ahead. There sure weren't any on the adjacent freeway but more and
more traffic was buzzing by me at increasingly unsafe speeds. Coming
around a turn and starting uphill a mile from the stop sign at Niles
Canyon the traffic was stopped. All of those cars that had been driving
by WAY too close were stopped and although many of them had pulled into
the side trying to block me I could get around them. Every car that had
passed me in the last 4 miles was stopped and I passed them all.

Getting up to the stop sign it's a three way stop with traffic in all
directions so I turned right and accelerated up to 22 across the narrow
bridge and pulled into Sunol. Riding into town all of the businesses
were boarded over. This is Governor Moonbeam Brown's thriving economy.
By this time I had been riding pretty much flat out to catch the group
and they weren't here so they must have taken another route. Very unlike them.

But I was worn down so I had to ride slow back the 10 miles to the climb
back over the hill and into Castro Valley.

Oddly enough again the steel bike was showing it's merits. Although my
legs were tired from pushing, my back, my shoulders, my neck and my tush
were not hurting as they ALWAYS would be on the C40.

As I was riding around the turns I could accelerate on the Basso which I
could not do on the C40 because it was so rigid that it kept the wheels
off the ground a lot.

I hit the climb and I seemed to be climbing a lot faster than I did on
the lighter carbon bikes. Maybe this was just my screwed up memory. But
there was a heck of a headwind and I was still going up at 7 to 11 mph
on a 5% climb when that would normally be closer to 6 according to my
memory. As I got to the top my butt was hurting some. But as I cleared
the top and started down this disappeared almost instantly which it never did before.

The Basso is 63 cm C-T and the C40 Large is a 59 C-T of toptube. But the
measurements between handbars, saddle center and pedals is the same. So
the only thing I can attribute this much softer ride to is the steel tubes.

On the downhill I hit 40 mph on a fairly mild descent. On the C40 by
this time I'd be so sore that I'd be more or less coasting.

I took a detour to put in a couple of extra miles but it turned out that
they were the same distance so I ended up getting home at 12:30. 55
miles, 2,000 ft of climbing with a max of 10% and an average speed of
13.6 which is about a mph faster than normal for a ride of this sort.
Near home I had been forced to stop because these new "light" wheel
quick releases do not hold well and the rear wheel was pulling over on
hard accelerations to make lights and it was like slamming on the brakes.

If you are trying to decide on a new carbon fiber bike you might want to
look at the custom steel offerings from Tommasini for about half the
price. And they can talk about carbon fiber breaking all they want and
you needn't pay the slightest attention.

Jan Heine of _Bicycle Quarterly_ talks about what he calls a "planing"
effect with steel bikes of (what he considers) optimum flexibility. As
I understand it, he believes the flex somehow allows the bike to sort of
synchronize with the rider's pedal strokes and make the ride easier than
with a rigid bike. ("Planing" is apparently an allusion to a speedboat
skimming the surface of the water, rather than plowing through it.)

I'm not saying I believe in "planing" in bikes. But you might be
interested that there's at least one guy who would nod knowingly at your
narration.



The same people that are saying that comfort comes from tires and tire
pressure say that a steel frame is much more comfortable than Al or CF.
That is not my experience in 35 years of riding steel, aluminum, titanium
and CF frames. That C40 must have been a very ****ty bike/frame.

I rode today with a guy who has a Landshark custom OS steel frame (don't
know the tube brand, but its lugless, modern and light) and a Landshark
custom CF frame. They are very close in weight and have the same
geometry. He likes the steel frame better because it is stiffer
climbing. Both have carbon forks. He also admitted to like the steel
bike because of the wheels -- some ENVE CF tubular wheels. He also has
the Chris King "angry bee" hubs, which are kind of annoying. It's
probably a 56cm frame or smaller.

I think in a smaller frame, you can get practically any ride you want in
any decent material without much of a weight penalty. Modern steel works
fine. I think in larger sizes, weight and rigidity (or lack of rigidity)
play more of a role. I never found CF "too stiff." But then again, I
never found aluminum too stiff -- not even the first generation
Cannondale straight gauge 6061. The bikes that "beat me up" were super
flexible and inefficient or simply did not fit right.

-- Jay Beattie.







The bikes that beat me up had stiff 18-20 mm wide tires that had to be
inflated to 8-9 bar to prevent pinchflats. The bikes had steel frames btw,
but that was because that was the only available in those days. Never go
'cheap' on tires.

--
Lou

On 8/26/2016 11:58 AM, wrote:
Lost track of time yesterday morning and hopped on the bike at 8:15 instead of 7:45. Rode fast but still missed the group. Now I normally know where they're going since they are as predictable as sunrise. But even going fast I didn't catch them at the top of the hill where they would have normally waited at least twice for slower set.

snip

This weekend was odd with three different people, two of whom know
little about bicycles, relating stories about frame materials. A niece
and a sister-in-law were talking about acquaintances with CF bicycles
and how they replaced them every three years or so because of concerns,
real or imagined (probably planted by their LBS) that the CF bicycle was
"worn out" and subject to catastrophic failure after that amount of
time. Then I was giving a ride to my daughter's previous roommate, up to
UC Santa Cruz, and she said that her bike had a flat and that the gears
were "shifting slow" and how she might buy a new bicycle with the
proceeds from the refund of their apartment deposit, but that her
bicycle was very sought after since it was one of the last steel bicycle
produced by Marin. I have one of those too!

And you really can't blame Jerry Brown for some failed businesses in
Sunol, where they once elected a dog as mayor.

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 6:40:25 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/26/2016 1:58 PM, wrote:
Lost track of time yesterday morning and hopped on the bike
-snip ride report-

Near home I had been forced to stop because these new "light" wheel quick releases do not hold well and the rear wheel was pulling over on hard accelerations to make lights and it was like slamming on the brakes.

Get a regular steel QR and lube the cam. They have more
closing force and bite better too. None of that matters with
single-point ends but it does (as you found) with classic
horizontal ends.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

That is my intentions Andrew. But they are getting hard to come by. The best I've used are the old Campy style.