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Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 21st 18, 12:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dimitris
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Posts: 1
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.

Thanks in advance

Dimitris
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  #2  
Old August 21st 18, 01:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 144
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 04:49:55 -0700 (PDT), Dimitris
wrote:

Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.

Thanks in advance

Dimitris


I've never tried to modify a 11 speed cassette but the 9 speed
cassettes that I've modified use a special small cog, and I think
(it's been a while) perhaps the next larger cog. The larger cogs are
separated by spacers but the low, and maybe second, cog have a built
in spacer which for the small cog has the drive spline as part of the
cog. Thus they have to be special cogs.

As for the cogs that use a spacer for separation shifting one or two
teeth is normally no problem. It is trying to jump a lot of teeth that
is difficult to do.

My Bangkok bikes use modified cassettes - 13, 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 23,
24, 25. The small 13 cog is the largest I found with the built in
spacer and the 15 is just a way to get to 17 without too large a jump.
I think that the 21 - 23 was because I couldn't locate a 22 tooth cog.
Shimano does not make cogs in every number of teeth.
  #3  
Old August 21st 18, 03:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,261
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 4:49:58 AM UTC-7, Dimitris wrote:
Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.

Thanks in advance

Dimitris


Well, I'm doing a lot of climbing. My low is a 28 for the compact and I generally use only the 23. But I'm a lugger. Most of the other people in the group are spinners and have 32 or 34 large cogs.

If you are climbing you also have to go downhill and I would suggest you not go any larger on the small cog than a 13 and probably more like a 12.

Since they sell a 12/32 I would suggest that. There's no need to try mixing and matching with Shimano gears and if you're using better parts it is difficult since they tend to connect a lot of cogs together into a single group.

I don't understand why you would need close gears for, if you think a 14 tooth could work OK with a compact.
  #4  
Old August 21st 18, 04:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On 8/21/2018 6:49 AM, Dimitris wrote:
Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.


Probably yes but you're committing to buying two cassettes
each time you replace chain/sprockets.

Last week we replaced a 34x50 Campagnolo crank with the new
IRD Super Compact 30x46 (w/ 11~32 cassette) which worked out
well; happy rider. Many paths to victory.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #5  
Old August 22nd 18, 01:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

Hi Andrew,

From what I see I can get the three cogs of the 14-28 cassette without having to buy the complete cassette. The cost of the cogs plus a spacer is ~$20 which is not unreasonable. Similarly for the derailleur, instead of buying a GS just buy the two outer cage plates (also available) and convert my SS derailleur.

A super compact crankset would indeed be another option however from what I see the IRD Super Compact 30x46 is for a square bb, only compatible with 10sp (could not be an issue from what I read) and the cost is quite high ~$180. Is there another sub-compact crankset compatible with Shimano 24mm spindles?

On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 5:21:20 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/21/2018 6:49 AM, Dimitris wrote:
Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.


Probably yes but you're committing to buying two cassettes
each time you replace chain/sprockets.

Last week we replaced a 34x50 Campagnolo crank with the new
IRD Super Compact 30x46 (w/ 11~32 cassette) which worked out
well; happy rider. Many paths to victory.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #6  
Old August 22nd 18, 07:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,261
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 5:36:37 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Hi Andrew,

From what I see I can get the three cogs of the 14-28 cassette without having to buy the complete cassette. The cost of the cogs plus a spacer is ~$20 which is not unreasonable. Similarly for the derailleur, instead of buying a GS just buy the two outer cage plates (also available) and convert my SS derailleur.

A super compact crankset would indeed be another option however from what I see the IRD Super Compact 30x46 is for a square bb, only compatible with 10sp (could not be an issue from what I read) and the cost is quite high ~$180. Is there another sub-compact crankset compatible with Shimano 24mm spindles?

On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 5:21:20 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/21/2018 6:49 AM, Dimitris wrote:
Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.


Probably yes but you're committing to buying two cassettes
each time you replace chain/sprockets.

Last week we replaced a 34x50 Campagnolo crank with the new
IRD Super Compact 30x46 (w/ 11~32 cassette) which worked out
well; happy rider. Many paths to victory.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Here's the 14 problem: with a strong tailwind I could only ride at 28 mph with a 13. On downhills you can easily exceed that speed and not being able to pedal limits your control.

I really don't know what you mean by "wide ratios" since I have an 11-28 and with a normal compact crankset since that the lower gears are too close together - 11-12-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-28. On the lower gears you WANT wider ratios so that you can actually feel a change in the necessary strength required to pedal. I'm climbing 9% hills in the 21 and 23. And the 21 gets easy as the grade flattens out a bit. On a local 6% climb I'm in the 17 or 19 and the group is running away from me in their higher gears.

So I think that you ought to consider your own training rather than making odd choices of gearing. They don't make these expensive cassettes because the manufacturers are stupid.
  #7  
Old August 22nd 18, 10:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 824
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 8:28:43 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 5:36:37 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Hi Andrew,

From what I see I can get the three cogs of the 14-28 cassette without having to buy the complete cassette. The cost of the cogs plus a spacer is ~$20 which is not unreasonable. Similarly for the derailleur, instead of buying a GS just buy the two outer cage plates (also available) and convert my SS derailleur.

A super compact crankset would indeed be another option however from what I see the IRD Super Compact 30x46 is for a square bb, only compatible with 10sp (could not be an issue from what I read) and the cost is quite high ~$180. Is there another sub-compact crankset compatible with Shimano 24mm spindles?

On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 5:21:20 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/21/2018 6:49 AM, Dimitris wrote:
Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.

Probably yes but you're committing to buying two cassettes
each time you replace chain/sprockets.

Last week we replaced a 34x50 Campagnolo crank with the new
IRD Super Compact 30x46 (w/ 11~32 cassette) which worked out
well; happy rider. Many paths to victory.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Here's the 14 problem: with a strong tailwind I could only ride at 28 mph with a 13. On downhills you can easily exceed that speed and not being able to pedal limits your control.

I really don't know what you mean by "wide ratios" since I have an 11-28 and with a normal compact crankset since that the lower gears are too close together - 11-12-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-28. On the lower gears you WANT wider ratios so that you can actually feel a change in the necessary strength required to pedal. I'm climbing 9% hills in the 21 and 23. And the 21 gets easy as the grade flattens out a bit. On a local 6% climb I'm in the 17 or 19 and the group is running away from me in their higher gears.

So I think that you ought to consider your own training rather than making odd choices of gearing. They don't make these expensive cassettes because the manufacturers are stupid.


I think the OP knows best what gearing he needs. Among my riding buddy's climbing longer ( 3-4 km) 9% stretches in 34-21 or 34-23 is very unusual. I use a 11-32 cassette in the mountains: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32. I would trade in the 11 and 12 for a 18 and a 30 in an eye blink. 11-12-13-14-15, WTF? On the flats I ride a 12-25 cassette; 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25. I would trade in the 12 for a 28 so I could ride that cassette in the hills in my backyard which are not longer than 2 km with grades up to 15% for a couple of 100 meters. YMMV.

Lou
  #8  
Old August 23rd 18, 01:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 2:47:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 8:28:43 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 5:36:37 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Hi Andrew,

From what I see I can get the three cogs of the 14-28 cassette without having to buy the complete cassette. The cost of the cogs plus a spacer is ~$20 which is not unreasonable. Similarly for the derailleur, instead of buying a GS just buy the two outer cage plates (also available) and convert my SS derailleur.

A super compact crankset would indeed be another option however from what I see the IRD Super Compact 30x46 is for a square bb, only compatible with 10sp (could not be an issue from what I read) and the cost is quite high ~$180. Is there another sub-compact crankset compatible with Shimano 24mm spindles?

On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 5:21:20 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/21/2018 6:49 AM, Dimitris wrote:
Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.

Probably yes but you're committing to buying two cassettes
each time you replace chain/sprockets.

Last week we replaced a 34x50 Campagnolo crank with the new
IRD Super Compact 30x46 (w/ 11~32 cassette) which worked out
well; happy rider. Many paths to victory.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Here's the 14 problem: with a strong tailwind I could only ride at 28 mph with a 13. On downhills you can easily exceed that speed and not being able to pedal limits your control.

I really don't know what you mean by "wide ratios" since I have an 11-28 and with a normal compact crankset since that the lower gears are too close together - 11-12-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-28. On the lower gears you WANT wider ratios so that you can actually feel a change in the necessary strength required to pedal. I'm climbing 9% hills in the 21 and 23. And the 21 gets easy as the grade flattens out a bit. On a local 6% climb I'm in the 17 or 19 and the group is running away from me in their higher gears.

So I think that you ought to consider your own training rather than making odd choices of gearing. They don't make these expensive cassettes because the manufacturers are stupid.


I think the OP knows best what gearing he needs. Among my riding buddy's climbing longer ( 3-4 km) 9% stretches in 34-21 or 34-23 is very unusual. I use a 11-32 cassette in the mountains: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32. I would trade in the 11 and 12 for a 18 and a 30 in an eye blink. 11-12-13-14-15, WTF? On the flats I ride a 12-25 cassette; 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25. I would trade in the 12 for a 28 so I could ride that cassette in the hills in my backyard which are not longer than 2 km with grades up to 15% for a couple of 100 meters. YMMV.


Lou you weakling! You need to do more training. NOBODY should ride any cog larger than a 23t -- with a 49t front ring, like Jobst Brandt the human diesel truck. Personally, I ride 11sp: 11,11,11,11,12,12,12,12,13,13,14 (bail out gear) with a 50/53 compact. I ride 17% grades both ways to work and climb all weekend.

Actually, I did a 17% descent on the way to work this morning, and contrary to TK's assertions, the fact that I spun out and quit pedaling did not reduce my control. My control was reduced because I was airborne over bad pavement. This hill, except going down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsaGtzCbSmc (****ty video, hill starts at about 1:00) I usually climb that in my low gear of 50/14, spinning like Chris Froome. Really, I'm that strong.. Say hey to Tom Dumoulin if you see him, and remind him of our ride this weekend. We were going to do some hill repeats on Monte Zoncolan.

-- Jay Beattie.





  #9  
Old August 23rd 18, 02:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On 8/22/2018 7:55 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 2:47:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 8:28:43 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 5:36:37 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Hi Andrew,

From what I see I can get the three cogs of the 14-28 cassette without having to buy the complete cassette. The cost of the cogs plus a spacer is ~$20 which is not unreasonable. Similarly for the derailleur, instead of buying a GS just buy the two outer cage plates (also available) and convert my SS derailleur.

A super compact crankset would indeed be another option however from what I see the IRD Super Compact 30x46 is for a square bb, only compatible with 10sp (could not be an issue from what I read) and the cost is quite high ~$180. Is there another sub-compact crankset compatible with Shimano 24mm spindles?

On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 5:21:20 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/21/2018 6:49 AM, Dimitris wrote:
Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.

Probably yes but you're committing to buying two cassettes
each time you replace chain/sprockets.

Last week we replaced a 34x50 Campagnolo crank with the new
IRD Super Compact 30x46 (w/ 11~32 cassette) which worked out
well; happy rider. Many paths to victory.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Here's the 14 problem: with a strong tailwind I could only ride at 28 mph with a 13. On downhills you can easily exceed that speed and not being able to pedal limits your control.

I really don't know what you mean by "wide ratios" since I have an 11-28 and with a normal compact crankset since that the lower gears are too close together - 11-12-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-28. On the lower gears you WANT wider ratios so that you can actually feel a change in the necessary strength required to pedal. I'm climbing 9% hills in the 21 and 23. And the 21 gets easy as the grade flattens out a bit. On a local 6% climb I'm in the 17 or 19 and the group is running away from me in their higher gears.

So I think that you ought to consider your own training rather than making odd choices of gearing. They don't make these expensive cassettes because the manufacturers are stupid.


I think the OP knows best what gearing he needs. Among my riding buddy's climbing longer ( 3-4 km) 9% stretches in 34-21 or 34-23 is very unusual. I use a 11-32 cassette in the mountains: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32. I would trade in the 11 and 12 for a 18 and a 30 in an eye blink. 11-12-13-14-15, WTF? On the flats I ride a 12-25 cassette; 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25. I would trade in the 12 for a 28 so I could ride that cassette in the hills in my backyard which are not longer than 2 km with grades up to 15% for a couple of 100 meters. YMMV.


Lou you weakling! You need to do more training. NOBODY should ride any cog larger than a 23t -- with a 49t front ring, like Jobst Brandt the human diesel truck. Personally, I ride 11sp: 11,11,11,11,12,12,12,12,13,13,14 (bail out gear) with a 50/53 compact. I ride 17% grades both ways to work and climb all weekend.

Actually, I did a 17% descent on the way to work this morning, and contrary to TK's assertions, the fact that I spun out and quit pedaling did not reduce my control. My control was reduced because I was airborne over bad pavement. This hill, except going down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsaGtzCbSmc (****ty video, hill starts at about 1:00) I usually climb that in my low gear of 50/14, spinning like Chris Froome. Really, I'm that strong. Say hey to Tom Dumoulin if you see him, and remind him of our ride this weekend. We were going to do some hill repeats on Monte Zoncolan.


Everyone who's actually fast rides Record 12 speed:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/2018ca12.jpg


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #10  
Old August 23rd 18, 03:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,041
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 8:26:07 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/22/2018 7:55 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 2:47:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 8:28:43 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 5:36:37 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Hi Andrew,

From what I see I can get the three cogs of the 14-28 cassette without having to buy the complete cassette. The cost of the cogs plus a spacer is ~$20 which is not unreasonable. Similarly for the derailleur, instead of buying a GS just buy the two outer cage plates (also available) and convert my SS derailleur.

A super compact crankset would indeed be another option however from what I see the IRD Super Compact 30x46 is for a square bb, only compatible with 10sp (could not be an issue from what I read) and the cost is quite high ~$180. Is there another sub-compact crankset compatible with Shimano 24mm spindles?

On Tuesday, August 21, 2018 at 5:21:20 PM UTC+2, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/21/2018 6:49 AM, Dimitris wrote:
Dear All,

My 11-sp Ultegra-equipped bike came with a compact crankset (50-34) and an 11-28 cassette. For my use both the low and the high end are too high. For the low end there is the new HG800 11-34 cassette however the jumps are too big and besides I never use the 11 cog. I was thinking of replacing the first three cogs with the 3 first cogs (14-15-16) of the Ultegra 14-28 cassette to come up with a 14-34 cassette with the following steps : 14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34.

Will this setup work? I understand shifting between 16 and 17 will not be as smooth but how bad will it be? Of course I will use a medium-case derailleur.

Probably yes but you're committing to buying two cassettes
each time you replace chain/sprockets.

Last week we replaced a 34x50 Campagnolo crank with the new
IRD Super Compact 30x46 (w/ 11~32 cassette) which worked out
well; happy rider. Many paths to victory.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Here's the 14 problem: with a strong tailwind I could only ride at 28 mph with a 13. On downhills you can easily exceed that speed and not being able to pedal limits your control.

I really don't know what you mean by "wide ratios" since I have an 11-28 and with a normal compact crankset since that the lower gears are too close together - 11-12-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-28. On the lower gears you WANT wider ratios so that you can actually feel a change in the necessary strength required to pedal. I'm climbing 9% hills in the 21 and 23. And the 21 gets easy as the grade flattens out a bit. On a local 6% climb I'm in the 17 or 19 and the group is running away from me in their higher gears.

So I think that you ought to consider your own training rather than making odd choices of gearing. They don't make these expensive cassettes because the manufacturers are stupid.

I think the OP knows best what gearing he needs. Among my riding buddy's climbing longer ( 3-4 km) 9% stretches in 34-21 or 34-23 is very unusual. I use a 11-32 cassette in the mountains: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-22-25-28-32. I would trade in the 11 and 12 for a 18 and a 30 in an eye blink. 11-12-13-14-15, WTF? On the flats I ride a 12-25 cassette; 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25. I would trade in the 12 for a 28 so I could ride that cassette in the hills in my backyard which are not longer than 2 km with grades up to 15% for a couple of 100 meters. YMMV.


Lou you weakling! You need to do more training. NOBODY should ride any cog larger than a 23t -- with a 49t front ring, like Jobst Brandt the human diesel truck. Personally, I ride 11sp: 11,11,11,11,12,12,12,12,13,13,14 (bail out gear) with a 50/53 compact. I ride 17% grades both ways to work and climb all weekend.

Actually, I did a 17% descent on the way to work this morning, and contrary to TK's assertions, the fact that I spun out and quit pedaling did not reduce my control. My control was reduced because I was airborne over bad pavement. This hill, except going down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsaGtzCbSmc (****ty video, hill starts at about 1:00) I usually climb that in my low gear of 50/14, spinning like Chris Froome. Really, I'm that strong. Say hey to Tom Dumoulin if you see him, and remind him of our ride this weekend. We were going to do some hill repeats on Monte Zoncolan.


Everyone who's actually fast rides Record 12 speed:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/2018ca12.jpg


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


When I clicked on your link I expected to see Eddy riding a 12 speed (2x6) Super Record from the 1970s with downtube friction levers.
 




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