Heaven and Hell

John B. writes:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:52:32 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 13:28:23 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/19/2021 11:18 PM, John B. wrote:

On a personal basis I really can't see what the furor is about. Over
here you are required to wear a mask in a public place - store,
office, etc. and everybody just does it. No leaping up and down,
waving of arms and shouting, "I don't wanna do that". In fact we have
been having some Student protests about the government and even those
protesting are wear masks :-)

Well, I think many right wingers are timid and delicate. They fear that
wearing a mask may decrease their blood oxygen content by a percent, and
they quiver in fear.

More honestly, right wingers jump on even the least plausible
justification for their political posturing.

A very good friend of mine works as a civilian at a naval base.
Supposedly the commander said certain recreation facilities will not be
allowed to open until 80% of sailors are vaccinated. But many are still
refusing.

My guy said it's nuts. He says it's normal for them to be subjected to
mandatory vaccination for other maladies before shipping out, and
there's never any objection.
.....
But like every other aspect of COVID, right wing politics trumps both
science and reasonable past practice.

I had been in the Service for more then ten years when I was sent to
Vietnam and had, of course, had shots every year for my whole time in
the service. But as preparation to my sojourn in South East Asia I got
shots on both arms and one "big one" in the butt. After I got my shirt
on and my pants pulled up the ,Medic says, "you aren't going anywhere
for the next few days are you?" And I say "Hows come?". And he says
well, after you get the plague shot (the big one in the arse) we like
you to stay around for a few days", and I say, "you mean some people
get the plague from the shot?", and he don't say nothing.

A little more seriously, I don't know about now but when I was in the
Air Force there was a regulation that you could not refuse any medical
or dental treatment that the doctor prescribed for your health.

Were you ever ordered to take any medical treatments that were not FDA
approved?

I have no idea whether any treatment that was administered to me was
approved by the FDA or not. However I had a guy working for me (in the
U.S.A.F.) who was ordered to have all his teeth pulled. When he argued
that "you can't pull my teeth" he was shown a U.S.A.F. regulation that
stated that failure to accept any medical procedure that was
prescribed by a doctor was punishable by court martial.

I would give pretty good odds that all of the medical treatment you were
ordered to receive had been approved by the FDA, or whatever the
relevant organization was at the time. I suspect that the reason
current US military personnel are merely asked to volunteer for a covid
shot is that it is an experimental treatment, and it would look bad if
it later turned out to have undue side effects.

It does seem that all three covid shots are associated with some
elevated risk of cerebral blood clots. This does not mean that those at
a high risk of serious illness should avoid the shots, but almost all
those in the military are at an age where they are not at such risk, and
avoiding the vaccine just might be a rational choice.

Plus, didn't the Air Force teach you to think twice when asked to
volunteer for *anything*?

Now, I didn't personally see that regulation but I doubt that a
Colonel in the A.F. would lie about it. Given that regulations aren't
secret and available to anyone what wants to take the time to read
them.

--

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 08:56:44 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 08:03:53 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
Yes, but have you tried the pants test? The breath test can be tested
without laboratory or lavatory facilities. Also, face masks were not
designed to operate while saturated with water of urine. It doesn't
take much water to saturate a face mask. Dump one into some water,
shake off the surface droplets, and squeeze out what's left. When I
go hiking or running in the local public park, I wear a face mask. It
gets saturated rather rapidly, so I carry a spare mask or two. I've
thought that adding a sponge to the mask might help, but suspect it
would fail the fashion test.

Try holding a wet sponge up to your face...NOW INHALE!

Sure, but a sponge holds far more water than a face mask giving the
sponge mask far more time to trap virus laden water droplets than the
face mask. More simply, it takes longer to be asphyxiated with a
sponge than a mask.

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:55:47 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 11:13:59 AM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm a proponent of
laws and regulations with expiration dates. If governments are not
going to get rid of mistakes, then let them renew what works, and
allow the mistakes to expire.
--
Jeff Liebermann

So on January 1 of even number years, the law against murdering
people is no longer valid? And robbing people is legal on January 1
of odd numbered years because the law against that expired. Interesting
idea to have laws expire.

We already have laws with expiration dates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset_provision

I like your method of argumentation. Take a fundamentally good idea
and demonstrate that it will fail if dragged to it's logical extreme.
In this case, I'm not suggesting that all laws include an expiration
date. That would be chaotic and impractical. Somewhere in the
middle, such as all emergency laws, executive orders, unfunded
mandates, and the legal abominations that are likely to fail without
much assistance. We can start small an limit revenue bills to 1 year.
If renewed, the next cycle gets 2 years. If renewed again, 4 years,
and so on. I'm sure our elected representatives and contrive
something sufficiently complicated to resemble a functional system.

I guess we sort of have that with marijuana being legal in many
places. And driving faster than 55 mph is legal in many places.
The laws for those examples expired, were changed. I think we have
laws making it illegal to dump toxic waste on the ground. But is
that action now legal the beginning of next month after the law
expires?

I have bad news for you. Ignorance of the law is not considered a
valid excuse for non-compliance. You are expected to keep up to date
on the latest changes.
https://www.asc.ohio-state.edu/roberts.21/597.02/in-class/Ignorance%20sources.pdf
Whether you succeed or not will be decided by a court of law after you
do something illegal.

Currently government is not considered the most efficient institution.

You're being generous. The founding fathers had enough experience
with English law to realize and an efficient government usually ends
up as an autocracy. To prevent that from happening in the US, the
various governments were made sufficiently inefficient to make forming
a dictatorship, junta, or monarch rather difficult. Methinks
Churchill said it best:
https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/the-worst-form-of-government/

But just imagine how less efficient it would be if they had to reargue
and repass every single law every single year or maybe more often?

Again, I'm not suggesting swinging from laws that last past their
usefulness, to laws that evaporate on a schedule. Something in
between can be made to work.

We would have zero laws.

I have yet to see evidence of any legal system that produces fewer
laws. More commonly, they are designed to handle more laws, such as
Chinese style legalism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(Chinese_philosophy)

Now I am sure some people would love that.

Yup. Anarchists. Like all extreme forms of government and utopian
societies, they too had their short day in the sun, and then died. The
systems that survived have one characteristic in common, mediocrity.
There will come a day when we will recognize the truth and learn to
tolerate mediocrity, compromise, and inefficiency.

But I think most people would quickly realize it is not a panacea.

All such wonder solutions tend to have their side effects. In most
cases, the all encompassing solutions simply delay any after effects
or adverse reactions. It's like trying to radically re-design one
part of a bicycle. The various parts are so tightly interconnected
that it is nearly impossible to change one part, without also changing
a dozen more parts.

The whole world works much better with rules and regulations.
Not anarchy.

I agree, but I am not advocating anarchy.

If you are opposed to some idea (such as the expiration of laws, term
limits, and spending limits), instead of trying to compile a list of
things you don't like about the idea, try to pretend that you are a
supporter and think about what it would take to make the idea
successful. Not only will you learn more about the idea, you will
also have a clue on what your opponents might be thinking. For
example, what changes to US government and society would be necessary
to make anarchy functional and sustainable? Lots of social science
fiction stories have been based on a similar premise. If nothing
else, you might have the start of a good science fiction story.

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 08:58:27 +0700, John B.
wrote:

"write something that is worth reading"?? Tommy? Surely you jest.

See:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/kunich.html
Hint: Always do a Google search before passing judgment. You never
know what might float to the surface.

Our objection was to Tom's one-line, text message, style discussion.
Usually, there is little thought and no information in a one-line
reply. Worse, it doesn't give us anything that we can sink our fangs
into and form a satisfactory rebuttal. Plenty other things wrong with
one-line replies. We usually ignore them as a waste of time, but
since that seems to be Tom's style of last resort, we feel obligated
to reply.

Sorry about the "royal we". Tom seems to use it often. Since nobody
else has complained, we thought it might be fun to do the same.
--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 23:08:30 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:48:24 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

jbeattie writes:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 1:28:54 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 12:58:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 8:00:25 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:12:26 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/19/2021 8:35 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:49:44 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 12:55:49 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
1979:
Q. What is the difference between Heaven and Hell?
A: In Heaven, the French are the chefs, the Italians are
the lovers, the swiss are the bankers, the Germans are
the engineers, and the British are the police.
In Hell, the Germans are the police, the British are the
cooks, the Italians are the engineers, the French are
the bankers, and the Swiss are the lovers.

2029:
Doordash are the police
Google are the engineers, the bankers, and the government
Safeway and McDonalds are the cooks
And there are no lovers, since we all live alone in 1
room apartments due to covid-26, and visiting hours were
suspended due to covid-28
This is not that far off. The latest study on masks from
Stanford University is that masks can cause pneumococcal
pneumonia. Fauci is literally murdering people to force
more and more people to use vaccines for which he has so
far earned over $9 million. Fauci actually thinks this is
funny and laughs about this in public!

Most of the posters here don't know what science is but
since they dislike my comments they will turn happily to
the dark side and kill themselves rather than take any
advice from me. Well, I can think of a few who won't be
missed in the least after they are gone.

Tommy, I believe that you are telling lies.... again. Please post a
reference to your remark that "The latest study on masks
from Stanford
University is that masks can cause pneumococcal pneumonia".

I believe that failure to do will be proof positive that you are a
liar.

The Stanford piece this week was yet another blow to the
mask religion:

https://noqreport.com/2021/04/17/sta...against-covid/

Not that anyone's religion will change from mere data.

The 'pneumonia' claim was in some other paper I did not read.
Really?
Gawd. https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...cks-evidence-/
Hmm. That article certainly sounds/reads like the kind of bunk
it purports to debunk. Putting aside the childlike style, the
first claim seems ridiculous to me - how could the mask NOT
result in less oxygen? And if it's not, why do I want to take it
off so I can breathe easier?
The Politfact article points out what is generally available on
the internet about the author and nature of the hypothesis stated
by the author -- who is not a representative of Stanford. It is
not in itself a scientific journal article.

A search of the Elsevier medical journal data base using the
search "effect! w/20 "face mask" or "surgical mask" or "personal
protective equipment"" turns up 2,538 articles. Skimming the hits,
the consensus seems to be that surgical masks help stop the spread
of droplets and aerosol from infected persons, and with social
distancing, reduce virus transmission. Poor fitting surgical masks
provide little protection to the wearer. There is evidence that
wearing a surgical mask may reduce blood oxygen levels in an
insignificant way during relatively static activities like
attending a college class. The effect is greater with higher
efforts, not surprisingly -- and with different masks.
Why are you pretending that the CDC themselves did not write an
article saying the same things? Why are you making any possible
attempt to hide the fact that masks do nothing and that there have
been studies for 40 years that all say the same thing?

This is what the CDC says about masks:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...sars-cov2.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html
Here, print yourself a poster:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...hers-Final.pdf

This study does not say that masks do
nothing. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...mm6936a5-H.pdf
Why would the CDC recommend mask wearing if a mask did nothing? What
is in it for the CDC? The last time I checked, they did not hold
stock in J&J, 3M or the legion of other mask producers. Is it all
about the subjugation of ubermensch Tom Kunich? Are they trying to
keep you down -- you and John Galt?

As I was saying, loose fitting surgical masks provide little
protection to the wearer. A mask prevents or limits spread from the
user -- and along with social distancing reduces exposure. It is a
better version of coughing into your sleeve. Why is that so hard to
understand? Go back and slowly re-read the CDC guidance on mask
wearing. Here, again:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html

Read this, too: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2776536

For a round up of mask studies, see

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence

My take on these, not having read them all, is that the evidence that
masks are helpful is weak. As for why the CDC would recommend mask
wearing, they're part of a government that has invested heavily in
claiming to be able to command the tide to go out. Masks are a part of
the pandemic theater.

Strange then that masks are mandated in nearly every country in the
world - I think I counted something like 17 countries where mask
wearing was stated to be "only recommended or not required".
Or is that proof positive that nearly all the countries in the world
178 out of 195 are "able to command the tide to go out".

Fashion is weird and powerful -- Frank Krygowski

Anyone is able to *command* the tide to go out. Only the select few are
able to pretend that it did.

Yes, I believe that King Canute was said to have commanded the tide
not to come in. With the usual results :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 3:06:46 a.m. UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 23:08:30 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:48:24 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

jbeattie writes:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 1:28:54 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 12:58:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 8:00:25 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:12:26 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/19/2021 8:35 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:49:44 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 12:55:49 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
1979:
Q. What is the difference between Heaven and Hell?
A: In Heaven, the French are the chefs, the Italians are
the lovers, the swiss are the bankers, the Germans are
the engineers, and the British are the police.
In Hell, the Germans are the police, the British are the
cooks, the Italians are the engineers, the French are
the bankers, and the Swiss are the lovers.

2029:
Doordash are the police
Google are the engineers, the bankers, and the government
Safeway and McDonalds are the cooks
And there are no lovers, since we all live alone in 1
room apartments due to covid-26, and visiting hours were
suspended due to covid-28
This is not that far off. The latest study on masks from
Stanford University is that masks can cause pneumococcal
pneumonia. Fauci is literally murdering people to force
more and more people to use vaccines for which he has so
far earned over $9 million. Fauci actually thinks this is
funny and laughs about this in public!

Most of the posters here don't know what science is but
since they dislike my comments they will turn happily to
the dark side and kill themselves rather than take any
advice from me. Well, I can think of a few who won't be
missed in the least after they are gone.

Tommy, I believe that you are telling lies.... again. Please post a
reference to your remark that "The latest study on masks
from Stanford
University is that masks can cause pneumococcal pneumonia".

I believe that failure to do will be proof positive that you are a
liar.

The Stanford piece this week was yet another blow to the
mask religion:

https://noqreport.com/2021/04/17/sta...against-covid/

Not that anyone's religion will change from mere data.

The 'pneumonia' claim was in some other paper I did not read.
Really?
Gawd. https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...cks-evidence-/
Hmm. That article certainly sounds/reads like the kind of bunk
it purports to debunk. Putting aside the childlike style, the
first claim seems ridiculous to me - how could the mask NOT
result in less oxygen? And if it's not, why do I want to take it
off so I can breathe easier?
The Politfact article points out what is generally available on
the internet about the author and nature of the hypothesis stated
by the author -- who is not a representative of Stanford. It is
not in itself a scientific journal article.

A search of the Elsevier medical journal data base using the
search "effect! w/20 "face mask" or "surgical mask" or "personal
protective equipment"" turns up 2,538 articles. Skimming the hits,
the consensus seems to be that surgical masks help stop the spread
of droplets and aerosol from infected persons, and with social
distancing, reduce virus transmission. Poor fitting surgical masks
provide little protection to the wearer. There is evidence that
wearing a surgical mask may reduce blood oxygen levels in an
insignificant way during relatively static activities like
attending a college class. The effect is greater with higher
efforts, not surprisingly -- and with different masks.
Why are you pretending that the CDC themselves did not write an
article saying the same things? Why are you making any possible
attempt to hide the fact that masks do nothing and that there have
been studies for 40 years that all say the same thing?

This is what the CDC says about masks:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...sars-cov2.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html
Here, print yourself a poster:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...hers-Final.pdf

This study does not say that masks do
nothing. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...mm6936a5-H.pdf
Why would the CDC recommend mask wearing if a mask did nothing? What
is in it for the CDC? The last time I checked, they did not hold
stock in J&J, 3M or the legion of other mask producers. Is it all
about the subjugation of ubermensch Tom Kunich? Are they trying to
keep you down -- you and John Galt?

As I was saying, loose fitting surgical masks provide little
protection to the wearer. A mask prevents or limits spread from the
user -- and along with social distancing reduces exposure. It is a
better version of coughing into your sleeve. Why is that so hard to
understand? Go back and slowly re-read the CDC guidance on mask
wearing. Here, again:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html

Read this, too: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2776536

For a round up of mask studies, see

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence

My take on these, not having read them all, is that the evidence that
masks are helpful is weak. As for why the CDC would recommend mask
wearing, they're part of a government that has invested heavily in
claiming to be able to command the tide to go out. Masks are a part of
the pandemic theater.

Strange then that masks are mandated in nearly every country in the
world - I think I counted something like 17 countries where mask
wearing was stated to be "only recommended or not required".
Or is that proof positive that nearly all the countries in the world
178 out of 195 are "able to command the tide to go out".

Fashion is weird and powerful -- Frank Krygowski

Anyone is able to *command* the tide to go out. Only the select few are
able to pretend that it did.
Yes, I believe that King Canute was said to have commanded the tide
not to come in. With the usual results :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

He did it to show that even a king could not change/command certain things.

Cheers

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 23:16:37 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:52:32 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 13:28:23 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/19/2021 11:18 PM, John B. wrote:

On a personal basis I really can't see what the furor is about. Over
here you are required to wear a mask in a public place - store,
office, etc. and everybody just does it. No leaping up and down,
waving of arms and shouting, "I don't wanna do that". In fact we have
been having some Student protests about the government and even those
protesting are wear masks :-)

Well, I think many right wingers are timid and delicate. They fear that
wearing a mask may decrease their blood oxygen content by a percent, and
they quiver in fear.

More honestly, right wingers jump on even the least plausible
justification for their political posturing.

A very good friend of mine works as a civilian at a naval base.
Supposedly the commander said certain recreation facilities will not be
allowed to open until 80% of sailors are vaccinated. But many are still
refusing.

My guy said it's nuts. He says it's normal for them to be subjected to
mandatory vaccination for other maladies before shipping out, and
there's never any objection.
....
But like every other aspect of COVID, right wing politics trumps both
science and reasonable past practice.

I had been in the Service for more then ten years when I was sent to
Vietnam and had, of course, had shots every year for my whole time in
the service. But as preparation to my sojourn in South East Asia I got
shots on both arms and one "big one" in the butt. After I got my shirt
on and my pants pulled up the ,Medic says, "you aren't going anywhere
for the next few days are you?" And I say "Hows come?". And he says
well, after you get the plague shot (the big one in the arse) we like
you to stay around for a few days", and I say, "you mean some people
get the plague from the shot?", and he don't say nothing.

A little more seriously, I don't know about now but when I was in the
Air Force there was a regulation that you could not refuse any medical
or dental treatment that the doctor prescribed for your health.

Were you ever ordered to take any medical treatments that were not FDA
approved?

I have no idea whether any treatment that was administered to me was
approved by the FDA or not. However I had a guy working for me (in the
U.S.A.F.) who was ordered to have all his teeth pulled. When he argued
that "you can't pull my teeth" he was shown a U.S.A.F. regulation that
stated that failure to accept any medical procedure that was
prescribed by a doctor was punishable by court martial.

I would give pretty good odds that all of the medical treatment you were
ordered to receive had been approved by the FDA, or whatever the
relevant organization was at the time. I suspect that the reason
current US military personnel are merely asked to volunteer for a covid
shot is that it is an experimental treatment, and it would look bad if
it later turned out to have undue side effects.

As I said, I have no idea but back in the early 1950's we used to get
an annual "flu shot" and I remember one year it made so many people
sick that they had to cancel flying for several days as there was no
one available to work on the flight line. Memory is often fallible but
I don't remember having a flu shot after that episode.

It does seem that all three covid shots are associated with some
elevated risk of cerebral blood clots. This does not mean that those at
a high risk of serious illness should avoid the shots, but almost all
those in the military are at an age where they are not at such risk, and
avoiding the vaccine just might be a rational choice.

Plus, didn't the Air Force teach you to think twice when asked to
volunteer for *anything*?

Nope, the rule of thumb was "never volunteer". If they want you they
will come and get you :-)


Now, I didn't personally see that regulation but I doubt that a
Colonel in the A.F. would lie about it. Given that regulations aren't
secret and available to anyone what wants to take the time to read
them.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Am 21.04.2021 um 22:44 schrieb Radey Shouman:

Essentially you're telling me that I really should wear a
St. Christopher medal, because it's easier on the pocket than a rabbit's
foot, less likely to smell bad, and won't offend vegans, while
completely begging the question of how either one does any good at all.

Funnily enough, this St Christopher's medal (or something else) has all
but stalled the flu season world-wide; there is no "flu season" 2020/21
to speak of in Europe or the USA.
https://www.today.com/health/flu-season-2020-2021-flu-activity-historic-lows-mask-wearing-t207131

On 4/22/2021 2:06 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 23:08:30 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Wed, 21 Apr 2021 09:48:24 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

jbeattie writes:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 1:28:54 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 12:58:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 8:00:25 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:12:26 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/19/2021 8:35 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:49:44 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 12:55:49 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
1979:
Q. What is the difference between Heaven and Hell?
A: In Heaven, the French are the chefs, the Italians are
the lovers, the swiss are the bankers, the Germans are
the engineers, and the British are the police.
In Hell, the Germans are the police, the British are the
cooks, the Italians are the engineers, the French are
the bankers, and the Swiss are the lovers.

2029:
Doordash are the police
Google are the engineers, the bankers, and the government
Safeway and McDonalds are the cooks
And there are no lovers, since we all live alone in 1
room apartments due to covid-26, and visiting hours were
suspended due to covid-28
This is not that far off. The latest study on masks from
Stanford University is that masks can cause pneumococcal
pneumonia. Fauci is literally murdering people to force
more and more people to use vaccines for which he has so
far earned over $9 million. Fauci actually thinks this is
funny and laughs about this in public!

Most of the posters here don't know what science is but
since they dislike my comments they will turn happily to
the dark side and kill themselves rather than take any
advice from me. Well, I can think of a few who won't be
missed in the least after they are gone.

Tommy, I believe that you are telling lies.... again. Please post a
reference to your remark that "The latest study on masks
from Stanford
University is that masks can cause pneumococcal pneumonia".

I believe that failure to do will be proof positive that you are a
liar.

The Stanford piece this week was yet another blow to the
mask religion:

https://noqreport.com/2021/04/17/sta...against-covid/

Not that anyone's religion will change from mere data.

The 'pneumonia' claim was in some other paper I did not read.
Really?
Gawd. https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...cks-evidence-/
Hmm. That article certainly sounds/reads like the kind of bunk
it purports to debunk. Putting aside the childlike style, the
first claim seems ridiculous to me - how could the mask NOT
result in less oxygen? And if it's not, why do I want to take it
off so I can breathe easier?
The Politfact article points out what is generally available on
the internet about the author and nature of the hypothesis stated
by the author -- who is not a representative of Stanford. It is
not in itself a scientific journal article.

A search of the Elsevier medical journal data base using the
search "effect! w/20 "face mask" or "surgical mask" or "personal
protective equipment"" turns up 2,538 articles. Skimming the hits,
the consensus seems to be that surgical masks help stop the spread
of droplets and aerosol from infected persons, and with social
distancing, reduce virus transmission. Poor fitting surgical masks
provide little protection to the wearer. There is evidence that
wearing a surgical mask may reduce blood oxygen levels in an
insignificant way during relatively static activities like
attending a college class. The effect is greater with higher
efforts, not surprisingly -- and with different masks.
Why are you pretending that the CDC themselves did not write an
article saying the same things? Why are you making any possible
attempt to hide the fact that masks do nothing and that there have
been studies for 40 years that all say the same thing?

This is what the CDC says about masks:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...sars-cov2.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html
Here, print yourself a poster:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...hers-Final.pdf

This study does not say that masks do
nothing. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...mm6936a5-H.pdf
Why would the CDC recommend mask wearing if a mask did nothing? What
is in it for the CDC? The last time I checked, they did not hold
stock in J&J, 3M or the legion of other mask producers. Is it all
about the subjugation of ubermensch Tom Kunich? Are they trying to
keep you down -- you and John Galt?

As I was saying, loose fitting surgical masks provide little
protection to the wearer. A mask prevents or limits spread from the
user -- and along with social distancing reduces exposure. It is a
better version of coughing into your sleeve. Why is that so hard to
understand? Go back and slowly re-read the CDC guidance on mask
wearing. Here, again:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html

Read this, too: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2776536

For a round up of mask studies, see

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence

My take on these, not having read them all, is that the evidence that
masks are helpful is weak. As for why the CDC would recommend mask
wearing, they're part of a government that has invested heavily in
claiming to be able to command the tide to go out. Masks are a part of
the pandemic theater.

Strange then that masks are mandated in nearly every country in the
world - I think I counted something like 17 countries where mask
wearing was stated to be "only recommended or not required".
Or is that proof positive that nearly all the countries in the world
178 out of 195 are "able to command the tide to go out".

Fashion is weird and powerful -- Frank Krygowski

Anyone is able to *command* the tide to go out. Only the select few are
able to pretend that it did.

Yes, I believe that King Canute was said to have commanded the tide
not to come in. With the usual results :-)


A much misunderstood event.

Knut (Latinized to 'Canute') spoke as a lesson in piety. His
point was that even a sovereign cannot command the tides.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 3:12:46 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 5:33 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 4/21/2021 5:02 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes:

On 4/21/2021 9:48 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
jbeattie writes:

On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 2:14:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 1:28:54 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 12:58:28 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 8:00:25 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 7:12:26 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/19/2021 8:35 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 19 Apr 2021 06:49:44 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 19, 2021 at 12:55:49 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
1979:
Q. What is the difference between Heaven and Hell?
A: In Heaven, the French are the chefs, the Italians are
the lovers, the swiss are the bankers, the Germans are
the engineers, and the British are the police.
In Hell, the Germans are the police, the British are the
cooks, the Italians are the engineers, the French are
the bankers, and the Swiss are the lovers.

2029:
Doordash are the police
Google are the engineers, the bankers, and the government
Safeway and McDonalds are the cooks
And there are no lovers, since we all live alone in 1
room apartments due to covid-26, and visiting hours were
suspended due to covid-28
This is not that far off. The latest study on masks from
Stanford University is that masks can cause pneumococcal
pneumonia. Fauci is literally murdering people to force
more and more people to use vaccines for which he has so
far earned over $9 million. Fauci actually thinks this is
funny and laughs about this in public!

Most of the posters here don't know what science is but
since they dislike my comments they will turn happily to
the dark side and kill themselves rather than take any
advice from me. Well, I can think of a few who won't be
missed in the least after they are gone.

Tommy, I believe that you are telling lies.... again. Please post a
reference to your remark that "The latest study on masks
from Stanford
University is that masks can cause pneumococcal pneumonia".

I believe that failure to do will be proof positive that you are a
liar.

The Stanford piece this week was yet another blow to the
mask religion:

https://noqreport.com/2021/04/17/sta...against-covid/

Not that anyone's religion will change from mere data.

The 'pneumonia' claim was in some other paper I did not read.
Really?
Gawd. https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...cks-evidence-/
Hmm. That article certainly sounds/reads like the kind of bunk
it purports to debunk. Putting aside the childlike style, the
first claim seems ridiculous to me - how could the mask NOT
result in less oxygen? And if it's not, why do I want to take it
off so I can breathe easier?
The Politfact article points out what is generally available on
the internet about the author and nature of the hypothesis stated
by the author -- who is not a representative of Stanford. It is
not in itself a scientific journal article.

A search of the Elsevier medical journal data base using the
search "effect! w/20 "face mask" or "surgical mask" or "personal
protective equipment"" turns up 2,538 articles. Skimming the hits,
the consensus seems to be that surgical masks help stop the spread
of droplets and aerosol from infected persons, and with social
distancing, reduce virus transmission. Poor fitting surgical masks
provide little protection to the wearer. There is evidence that
wearing a surgical mask may reduce blood oxygen levels in an
insignificant way during relatively static activities like
attending a college class. The effect is greater with higher
efforts, not surprisingly -- and with different masks.
Why are you pretending that the CDC themselves did not write an
article saying the same things? Why are you making any possible
attempt to hide the fact that masks do nothing and that there have
been studies for 40 years that all say the same thing?

This is what the CDC says about masks:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...sars-cov2.html
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html
Here, print yourself a poster:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...hers-Final.pdf

This study does not say that masks do
nothing. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...mm6936a5-H.pdf
Why would the CDC recommend mask wearing if a mask did nothing? What
is in it for the CDC? The last time I checked, they did not hold
stock in J&J, 3M or the legion of other mask producers. Is it all
about the subjugation of ubermensch Tom Kunich? Are they trying to
keep you down -- you and John Galt?

As I was saying, loose fitting surgical masks provide little
protection to the wearer. A mask prevents or limits spread from the
user -- and along with social distancing reduces exposure. It is a
better version of coughing into your sleeve. Why is that so hard to
understand? Go back and slowly re-read the CDC guidance on mask
wearing. Here, again:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-guidance.html

Read this, too: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2776536

For a round up of mask studies, see

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence

My take on these, not having read them all, is that the evidence that
masks are helpful is weak. As for why the CDC would recommend mask
wearing, they're part of a government that has invested heavily in
claiming to be able to command the tide to go out. Masks are a part of
the pandemic theater.

I'm curious how you came upon an organization called Swiss Policy Research?

Did you begin by googling "masks don't work"?

When did you stop beating your wife?

I think I touched a nerve! But for an attempt at wit, you really
should have used a parallel sentence structure.

It's been said before, but you are a remarkably tedious person.

:-) And I ask inconvenient questions!

I really am curious how you found such an obscure source of
right-leaning opinion. SWPRS doesn't seem like the thing that would turn
up in normal searches, unless perhaps one indicated the direction one
was already leaning.

Frank, to you George Washington was right leaning because he did not want to be a king.