Tubus Cosmo Rack = Expensive Crap for Posers

On 6/4/2011 2:12 AM, Coolmaine wrote:

snip

Thanks, Steven. I believe the Massload rack you mention is the Madison
Summit stainless rack.

No, it's a different one.

Madison Summit:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/images/products/medium/madison-summit-alloy-rear-cycle-pannier-rack-IMG15298.jpg

CL-476:
http://nordicgroup.us/bicycleluggageracks/rackimages/massloadcl476.jpg

As far as I can tell the Madison Summit steel rack is no longer
available, but the alloy one is still sold. I'm not positive it's made
by Massload.

Massload apparently makes a lot of racks under contract that they can't
show on their web site. Perhaps the CL-476 is one of them (I have the
web archive of it). What's ironic is that clearly it's not a cheap
low-end rack yet it's being sold in the U.S. by Landrider who makes
cheap, "automatic transmission" bicycles.

Other than being made of aluminum rather than steel, the CL-476 looks to
be superior to the Summit in several ways, including the light mounting.

Steel is preferable of course, for bicycle frames and especially for
racks, but now a boutique item, like the $300 racks from Robert Beckman,
http://www.robertbeckmandesigns.com/rackframes.html or the $210 Bruce
Gordon rack http://www.bgcycles.com/racks.html. The Thorn Expedition
(didn't Blackburn trademark "Expedition" for racks?!) might be good as
well
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-expedition-steel-rear-cycle-pannier-rack-black-powdercoat-prod11694/?src=froogleus&currency=usd.
Sold only by SJSCycles in the UK.

SMS wrote:
:On 6/4/2011 7:56 AM, Steve Freides wrote:
: Coolmaine wrote:
:
: Once a manufacturer gets into this price bracket, his goodies had
: better be perfect because his customers are likely to be both
: impatient with failure and articulate.
:
: I'm sorry but that's just a ridiculous expectation on your part. Not
: every purchase one makes "works out" - sometimes something that's worth
: the price to most people isn't worth it to you, and that's just life.
: Find a rack that you like or, if money is truly no object, go get
: yourself a custom-made model that'll be what you want. Maybe you need
: to go to a bike shop next time and pay for installation - they'll have
: all the necessary hardware to make it work and they won't whine about
: it.

:The chance of finding a bicycle shop that actually sells good rear racks
:is extremely slim, but I suppose that some shops would be able to
roperly install the rack with lock washers and thread-lock.

Shop better bike shops.

And lock washers do nothing, so I give Torbus credit for not bowing to
the idiot customers who complain that they dont' get useless junk with
their rack hardware.

--
sig 2

On 6/3/2011 5:13 PM, Coolmaine wrote:
The good quality ali rack which came on my Utopia Kranich sacrificed
itself to protect my bike when it was twice attacked by a carelessly
driven Range Rover. Once I managed to straighten it but the second
time it was crippled forever.

.....

On a semi-related note, I have never, ever understood why frame
companies use tiny lower bolts for racks. They're using 3mm bolts when
they should be using 6mm or more.

Yea I know there's custom frames with integral racks, but that's
expensive and not necessary for all bikes. All that would be needed
would be to double the lower-end bolt diameters, and make sure they're
placed properly to have enough room for a nylon locking nut and 3-4mm of
extra bolt length on the inside.

Op 4-6-2011 22:00, DougC schreef:
On 6/3/2011 5:13 PM, Coolmaine wrote:
The good quality ali rack which came on my Utopia Kranich sacrificed
itself to protect my bike when it was twice attacked by a carelessly
driven Range Rover. Once I managed to straighten it but the second
time it was crippled forever.

.....

On a semi-related note, I have never, ever understood why frame
companies use tiny lower bolts for racks. They're using 3mm bolts when
they should be using 6mm or more.


M3? Look again. Tubus use M5 bolts. Well my racks do.


Lou

DougC wrote:
On 6/3/2011 5:13 PM, Coolmaine wrote:
The good quality ali rack which came on my Utopia Kranich sacrificed
itself to protect my bike when it was twice attacked by a carelessly
driven Range Rover. Once I managed to straighten it but the second
time it was crippled forever.

.....

On a semi-related note, I have never, ever understood why frame
companies use tiny lower bolts for racks. They're using 3mm bolts when
they should be using 6mm or more.

Yea I know there's custom frames with integral racks, but that's
expensive and not necessary for all bikes. All that would be needed
would be to double the lower-end bolt diameters, and make sure they're
placed properly to have enough room for a nylon locking nut and 3-4mm of
extra bolt length on the inside.

Really? I can't readily think of a frame with 3mm rack mounts.

Frame eyes are commonly 5mm, occasionally 6mm (or 1/4").
Unless the installation was creatively buggered, the shear
strength of a 5mm graded bolt is plenty. If it's loose or
arranged to not be in shear then 5mm could be insufficient
but, of all the bonehead things I see on bikes, rack
mounting on frame eyes[1] is amazingly uniform and seldom
any trouble.

[1] Rack top mounts on calipers, saddles, even brake cables
are often hilarious. On the lowers with no frame eyes, all
bets are off; everything from shoelaces to body wiring clips
to duct tape.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 06/04/2011 05:29 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 4-6-2011 22:00, DougC schreef:
On 6/3/2011 5:13 PM, Coolmaine wrote:
The good quality ali rack which came on my Utopia Kranich sacrificed
itself to protect my bike when it was twice attacked by a carelessly
driven Range Rover. Once I managed to straighten it but the second
time it was crippled forever.

.....

On a semi-related note, I have never, ever understood why frame
companies use tiny lower bolts for racks. They're using 3mm bolts when
they should be using 6mm or more.


M3? Look again. Tubus use M5 bolts. Well my racks do.

I think M5 is pretty much standard, but if the hardware is button head,
might *use* a 3mm hex key. they look nice but for ease of service I
prefer to use regular socket head everywhere I can. only button heads
on my bike are on the bottle cages and the unused front rack mounts on
the fork (just closing off the holes to make it look less unfinished)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 6/4/2011 1:00 PM, DougC wrote:

On a semi-related note, I have never, ever understood why frame
companies use tiny lower bolts for racks. They're using 3mm bolts when
they should be using 6mm or more.

They use M5 bolts for racks and water bottles, which are 5mm.

Yea I know there's custom frames with integral racks, but that's
expensive and not necessary for all bikes. All that would be needed
would be to double the lower-end bolt diameters, and make sure they're
placed properly to have enough room for a nylon locking nut and 3-4mm of
extra bolt length on the inside.

Usually you can do this on commuter bikes and touring/sport touring
bikes, the nylon-insert lock nuts are about 8mm high, so you need 8mm
extra bolt length for the bolt to go all the way into the nylon, not
just the 5mm of steel. However It's unnecessary if you use some
thread-lock compound.

I've seen thinner lock nuts, but not in metric or stainless.

On Jun 4, 3:56*pm, "Steve Freides" wrote:
Coolmaine wrote:
Once a manufacturer gets into this price bracket, his goodies had
better be perfect because his customers are likely to be both
impatient with failure and articulate.

I'm sorry but that's just a ridiculous expectation on your part. *

Really?

Not
every purchase one makes "works out"

Oh, if you're me, and you decide you care, it always works out. And if
someone has really ****ed me off, I make a fat profit out of it too.

- sometimes something that's worth
the price to most people isn't worth it to you, and that's just life.

That's loser's credo. Disabuse yourself of the dumb notion that I'm
anything like you.

Find a rack that you like or, if money is truly no object, go get
yourself a custom-made model that'll be what you want. *

I want a stainless rack. Do you have any further off the cuff
suggestions?

Or perhaps you're just another insular, thick American who thinks
everyone lives around the back your block. You haven't asked where I
live, or what bicycling condition and supply is like here. You haven't
asked what my experience of getting custom gear made has been. Your
advice is useless and your tone is offensive.

Maybe you need
to go to a bike shop next time and pay for installation

If you weren't such an insular quarterwit, or if you had the wits to
look up what I've said in the past about the bike shops within an
hour's drive from here, you wouldn't make these stupid suggestions.

- they'll have
all the necessary hardware to make it work and they won't whine about
it.

Why are you such an idiot, Freitos? The only local bicycle shop is
staffed by an 80 year-old blacksmith. He would get the same supply of
parts from Tubus that I do. I can't ask him to buy three whole boxes
of stainless domed nuts at a cost of over sixty Euro, so he can use
one of each on my bike. But you don't ask before you spout off, do
you? You just assume there's a huge, fully provisioned and lavishly
staffed bicycle emporium at the bottom of my block

Be smart, don't reply and irritate me further.

On Jun 4, 5:19*pm, Dan O wrote:
On Jun 3, 3:35 pm, AMuzi wrote:

I would have thought Tubus Cargo for your bike:http://www.vlerickfietsen.be/bagaget.../cargo_big.jpg

That's the one I use - extremely satisfactory.

http://i54.tinypic.com/348slys.jpg

See, while my rack isn't heavily used, it isn't mollycoddled either,
and it is used as a sacrificial item to protect an expensive bike. I
clean the bike, a quick wipe, once a year; I'm not a compulsive waxer.
So the rack will sooner rather than later become rusty if it is
cromoly. So I want stainless. And this is where I discovered the only
stainless rack I could buy is the Cosmo. There was only one other
stainless rack even theoretically available, and I couldn't find one
of those for sale.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Bicycles at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html

On Jun 4, 6:19*pm, SMS wrote:
On 6/4/2011 7:56 AM, Steve Freides wrote:

Coolmaine wrote:

Once a manufacturer gets into this price bracket, his goodies had
better be perfect because his customers are likely to be both
impatient with failure and articulate.

I'm sorry but that's just a ridiculous expectation on your part. *Not
every purchase one makes "works out" - sometimes something that's worth
the price to most people isn't worth it to you, and that's just life.
Find a rack that you like or, if money is truly no object, go get
yourself a custom-made model that'll be what you want. *Maybe you need
to go to a bike shop next time and pay for installation - they'll have
all the necessary hardware to make it work and they won't whine about
it.

The chance of finding a bicycle shop that actually sells good rear racks
is extremely slim, but I suppose that some shops would be able to
properly install the rack with lock washers and thread-lock.

Not where I live. High tech here is using a ballpeen hammer to knock a
retaining ridge on a button-head rivet.