Should Cyclists Pack Guns?

In article .com, wrote:

Professional drivers _should_ have a higher level of skill. Some do
not.

Like the arse driving a cab-trailer type gravel truck that brush passed
me while blowing the airhorn calling it a curtesy honk?

In article .com,
wrote:
On Apr 26, 12:18 pm, (Brent P)
wrote:
In article .com, wrote:
It's not a question of paranoia. It's simply better to have a gun and
not need it than to need a gun and not have it.

Well, maybe not. IIRC, guns kept in the home for "protection" are
something like 40 times more likely to be used for killing a family
member than for defending against an intruder. That makes it not so
simple.

If you believe the department of made up statistics and odds.

Kellermann, A. et. al. "Protection or Peril? An Analysis of Firearm
Related Deaths in the Home." The New England Journal of Medicine, vol.
314, no. 24, June 1986, pp. 1557-60.) A gun kept in the home is 43
times more likely to kill a member of the household, or friend, than
an intruder.

I don't know if it's precisely accurate, but It's not made up. What
have you got that says otherwise?

There's been whole studies on the problems with the Kellerman study.
Some of the highlights:

1) Suicide accounts for most of the killings of members of the
household. Don't kill yourself, you've eliminated most of the
"peril".

2) Cases where intruders decided to be elsewhere when a gun was
pointed at them weren't counted as "protection".

3) It was a case-control study, with all the issues that entails.

The bad guy is usually a cowardly bulley getting his kicks by harrassing
someone that appears weaker. This is why they don't get out of their cars
and the few that do end up backing down when they realize that they don't
have their armored protection and are now dealing with someone who is in
good physical shape one-on-one.

I'd hope that, after all these millions of years, we could invent ways
of dealing with cowardly bullies other than threatening to kill them.
It seems a bit crude to me.

Crude people sometimes require crude responses.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

nash wrote:
I tried this yesterday when being buzzed by a semi pulling two trailers.
Did not work at all he tried to kill me again and then when I caught up told
me to stay out of the way. I was already a block ahead and over to the
right and he did it again. Then he was stuck behind a 100 cars turning left
at the next light.
I could have been killed because he does not know how to time lights. Geez!
A professional driver. I am staying off that road now at that time of day.
He was out to scare a cyclist to death just because I could get through
traffic alot better even with his dangerous tactics. I rode around one car
because they got stuck prematurely turning into my lane. That really ticked
him off I guess because I was never in his way. He had to sit at the next
light for probably three cycles or more.
Blessed are the meek for the shall inherit the world. But you have to live
long enough to collect.


This kind of driver is exactly the reason I ride the wrong way on a semi
clogged road. There are plenty of assholes driving 80,000 pounds and all
you can do is take their number and try to get DOT to do something about
them. Of course if you were really, really ****ed you could jump onto
the truck and drag him out of the cab and beat the crap out of him. Just
hope he isn't a 300 pound 'Bubba'.
SUVs are kind of tolerable, but the semi drivers act like they are above
the law around the roads I drive. With a 65 MPH speed limit and no bike
lanes or cops I am NOT going to try to take the lane.
Your last line about the meek may be more true than you want to know.
I ride to survive, not to make a passing (rare, very rare) cop happy.
Bill Baka

Steve wrote:

At least in the US you can write down the numbers and give him some grief
that way. Its more effective than many realize.

A while back I was being seriously tailgated by a armored car. Daughter
took a couple of pictures with her cellphone camera. When he made and
illegal and dangerous passing move (forced the car ahead of me into the left
turn lane). I got his numbers, including "call this number if I am driving
badly". When I called the company back a week later to follow up, they were
most emphatic that he no longer worked there.


That's a double '2 points'. Right on.
Bill Baka

nash wrote:
Hi Steve,
I did get his number as he was sitting in the long line up. And he knew
it.
When I told the police they said just be thankful you are alive.
She could not understand why that ****ed me off.
They put out a bulletin on the guy but it was 30 minutes too late as I was
on a long ride.

It doesn't sound as if the police were that enthusiastic about catching
him. Get yourself killed and they will go nuts for justice just to get
off the television news and prove they can get their man.

To tell you the truth since he was in such a big hurry I wanted to sit in
front of him and not let him move which I could easily do. There were 100's
of witnesses so what could he do. I would have done that last year for
sure. But today I had a couple dogs that were depending on me coming home.


Some (most?) of them do get paid by the load and usually are in a bit of
a hurry, but I can find no excuse for assholes driving 40 ton monsters
that way.
Bill Baka

In article , Bill wrote:

This kind of driver is exactly the reason I ride the wrong way on a semi
clogged road.

Why mess up traffic flow because you are affraid? Just ride on the
sidewalk or in the grass off the roadway, the semi driver won't get you
there. Besides, even seeing him coming at you, what are you going to do
with even less reaction time if he intends to kill you? Smash into the
high curb and get run over?

wrote:

Last year, my wife and I were on our way out into the country when we
were passed by a school bus on a two-lane road, just before a stop
sign. We were close enough to the intersection that he should not
have passed. As it was, after passing using the opposing lane, he
forced his way back into our lane too close for my comfort.

He was heading for the bus lot just 1/4 mile away. I followed him
there, waited until he exited the bus, and gave him a lecture. And if
his attitude hadn't been acceptable to me at that point, I would have
written a letter to the school board.

Professional drivers _should_ have a higher level of skill. Some do
not. But their driving mistakes do put their salaries at risk, and
it's possible to take advantage of that.

- Frank Krygowski


Frank,
You have just been involved in what I have seen with school bus drivers
around here. Since they are in charge of ferrying the kiddies they tend
to ignore an adult on a bike or even a mere car. I have had many close
calls with school buses in neighborhood street conditions. They make
illegal (for us) U-turns or turn right in front of me and they expect me
to damn well get out of their way. Again, professional drivers, but with
some very bad manners.
Bill Baka

Matthew T. Russotto wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
forgot who I snipped;).
The bad guy is usually a cowardly bulley getting his kicks by harrassing
someone that appears weaker. This is why they don't get out of their cars
and the few that do end up backing down when they realize that they don't
have their armored protection and are now dealing with someone who is in
good physical shape one-on-one.
I'd hope that, after all these millions of years, we could invent ways
of dealing with cowardly bullies other than threatening to kill them.
It seems a bit crude to me.

Crude people sometimes require crude responses.

It's at this point where I would encourage riders to take at least a
basic self defense or Karate class in case a bully gets out and doesn't
back down. Don't go for a belt, but do get the moves to put down an
aggressive idiot if need be. I took a fair number of classes in the
1960's after my father gave me the Judo training at home, and even
though I have only had to use it a few times, it stops ***MOST***
aggressors in their tracks. My sister took a womens' self defense class
and they pointed out that rather than risk a fist getting broken to just
use her elbow (strongest point on the upper body) or a flat hand punch.
Just don't get too cocky and think you are going to take on a pick me up
truck full of drunk red necks.
Be safe.
Bill Baka

Brent P wrote:
In article , Bill wrote:

This kind of driver is exactly the reason I ride the wrong way on a semi
clogged road.

Why mess up traffic flow because you are affraid? Just ride on the
sidewalk or in the grass off the roadway, the semi driver won't get you
there. Besides, even seeing him coming at you, what are you going to do
with even less reaction time if he intends to kill you? Smash into the
high curb and get run over?



As I have mentioned many times before this is a country road with no
bike lanes and no (WTF?) sidewalks. There are only 2 lanes with stripes
and about 2 INCHES of pavement, then either thistles or a ditch. No
curbs either, so apparently you don't get the point of riding on an
undeveloped country road where the main traffic is to the gravel quarry.
You must live way too far in the city to understand what an old country
road full of semis means to someone on a bicycle.
FWIW, I am not afraid of anything other than a lingering death in an old
folks 'rest' home. Better to get flattened fast by a semi than years in
a wheelchair and diapers.
Your argument about reaction time doesn't hold up since I can see a line
of semis coming for over a mile so I can size up the situation well in
advance.
Curbs, grass??? ROTFLMAO.
Bill

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:54:38 -0700, Bill wrote:

wrote:

Last year, my wife and I were on our way out into the country when we
were passed by a school bus on a two-lane road, just before a stop
sign. We were close enough to the intersection that he should not
have passed. As it was, after passing using the opposing lane, he
forced his way back into our lane too close for my comfort.

He was heading for the bus lot just 1/4 mile away. I followed him
there, waited until he exited the bus, and gave him a lecture. And if
his attitude hadn't been acceptable to me at that point, I would have
written a letter to the school board.

Professional drivers _should_ have a higher level of skill. Some do
not. But their driving mistakes do put their salaries at risk, and
it's possible to take advantage of that.

- Frank Krygowski


Frank,
You have just been involved in what I have seen with school bus drivers
around here. Since they are in charge of ferrying the kiddies they tend
to ignore an adult on a bike or even a mere car. I have had many close
calls with school buses in neighborhood street conditions. They make
illegal (for us) U-turns or turn right in front of me and they expect me
to damn well get out of their way. Again, professional drivers, but with

'Professional drivers' my ass. Try 'The local job-bank
Section-8-livin' used-someone-else's-urine-for-the-drug-test
only-took-the-job-because-their-parole-officer-said-they-had-to'
lusers. Minimum wage, split-shift, no-future-except-more-of-the-same
dealing-with-other-peoples-kids-all-day-but-you're-not-allowed-to-hit-them
bull**** job.




some very bad manners.
Bill Baka

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