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#11
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Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure
On 2017-08-11 16:52, sms wrote:
On 8/11/2017 4:37 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 6:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Snipped When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands (Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those 20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with fast traffic at times which some potentially interested cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not exactly fun. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ Lifting a bike over low fences? Sounds a lot like trespassing onto private land. What is it with you that you have such difficulty riding where so mqany others ride without fear? Oh I know, a fw others share your fears and thus bicycvling is extremely dangerous. In the area Joerg is referring to, the issue is that not many others ride, because of fear of riding on US50, a legitimate fear. . Bicycles are not allowed on Hwy 50, that's the key problem. If you want to go to Intel, Kaiser, Costco, Home Depot et cetera the only way is to hack it across a field, he https://goo.gl/maps/RZyYFr7MCTT2 There is now a gate and various habitat fences. I guess they are fixing to put in developments and a road. Meaning the ride will be over soon. The only alternative is White Rock Road which is close to suicidal for a cyclist. Well, then I'll use the car until they are done, after which hopefully that new road with have a bike lane because it's going to be a race track. I would never move to a place like that if I was interested in transportational cycling. Sometimes it's good to move somewhere and then help estabishing a cycling culture, also pushing for an infrastructure. Else it'll never get expanded. For cyclists we already have much better options than we did 5-10 years ago. However, one must be able to handle a mountain bike. http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/CoachLane1.JPG We can now ride all the way to Walmart, brewpubs and other places in Placerville on mostly dirt roads and singletrack though some of it isn't for the faint of heart. Works for me. I simply adjusted my spending of money to businesses that can be reached that way. Heck, even one of my clients and a software engineer I network with are located directly on that trail. The downside is that I am going through a lot of rear tires. Oh well. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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#12
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Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:45:41 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped We can now ride all the way to Walmart, brewpubs and other places in Placerville on mostly dirt roads and singletrack though some of it isn't for the faint of heart. Works for me. I simply adjusted my spending of money to businesses that can be reached that way. Heck, even one of my clients and a software engineer I network with are located directly on that trail. The downside is that I am going through a lot of rear tires. Oh well. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ I can ride all the way from London Ontario Canada to Ottawa Ontario Canada and i can do it without going onto dirt roads or bicycle paths/trails if I want to. There are many, many places in Ontario Canada where i can ride a bicycle too without having to use bicycle paths or trails. I find many bicycle lanes, paths and trails to be very hazardous to use due to their extremely poor design (poor sight lines for example; being in the door zone, or being on the right side of a right turning motor vehicle lane) or because they are MUP/MUT. If I were to ride only in designated bicycle lanes or one segregated bicycle paths then I'd be doing very little bicycling because we don not have segregated bicycle paths here and for that I'm very thankful. I can hop on my bicycle and go to where I want to be (even if it''s a hundred plus miles away) by using, GASP!, paved roads shared with motor vehicles. Maybe YOU need segregated bicycling facilities in order to ride your bicycle but thousands of us do not nor do we constantly push for such segregated facilities. Cheers |
#13
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Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:05:55 -0700, sms
wrote: https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition Bike Summit. Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S. has the lowest number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the highest death rate. How many of the US deaths were due to getting hit by a drunk driver? Of the bicycle fatalities which I'm somewhat familiar, two were from drunk drivers and one was from a heart attack. https://www.google.com/search?q=cyclist+killed+by+drunk+driver "Investigators, however, have never provided a reasonable explanation how (the cyclist), struck from behind, shares responsibility for his own death..." I'm also wondering if the statistics from other countries include or exclude drunk drivers and heart attacks. Statistics without sources are worthless. Want to make the roads really safe for cyclists? Just execute drunk drivers on the spot. Bicycle fatality statistics should drop rapidly. However, I'm not sure it will affect the overall picture as some cycling accident investigations seem to follow a "blame the victim" mentality: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-bicyclists-drivers-crashes-statistics-2014nov22-story.html Incidentally, I now have a built in traffic stress meter. Thanks to one of the vasodilators (blood vessel expanders) that I'm taking, a sudden increase in blood pressure, such as after a near miss type incident, causes my face to "flush". It feels like I'm wearing a pin cushion. It's quite handy to determine if I'm "stressed" while riding or driving and need to take a break. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#14
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Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:55:02 -0700, Joerg
wrote: lifting the bike over some low fences Exactly how low? I don't think I could lift my bike over a fence much above knee high, and I can't think of a use for a fence that low -- confining turtles? A symbolic boundary marker? Of course I *am* seventy-six, female, and have a damaged rotator cuff. But there is also the problem of getting *me* over the fence without damaging it. When I was eight, I could climb a fence at the corner post, but at a hundred and sixty-eight pounds, fence-climbing is right out, unless it is built like a ladder. I think I *have* seen a board panel in a wire fence, but can't remember when and where. -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/ |
#16
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Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 8:45:38 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote: https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition Bike Summit. Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S. has the lowest number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the highest death rate. No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the numbers on slide 6 are what they are. When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands (Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those 20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with fast traffic at times which some potentially interested cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not exactly fun. But there's no end to that argument. People who live at a bus stop and work at another think buses are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for some people they are merely inconvenient but for most people buses are not useful in any way. I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday with a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a distant bike trail. But when we first moved to town and had just one car, I looked into riding a bus the seven or so miles to work. It would have taken far longer than just biking the whole way. But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate: http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434 "Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-) Yes, that's one of their all-time best. My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every residence to every destination is ridiculous. Absolutely. - Frank Krygowski |
#17
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Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:24:58 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 5:45:38 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote: https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition Bike Summit. Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S. has the lowest number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the highest death rate. No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the numbers on slide 6 are what they are. When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands (Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those 20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with fast traffic at times which some potentially interested cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not exactly fun. But there's no end to that argument. People who live at a bus stop and work at another think buses are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for some people they are merely inconvenient but for most people buses are not useful in any way. I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday with a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a distant bike trail. But when we first moved to town and had just one car, I looked into riding a bus the seven or so miles to work. It would have taken far longer than just biking the whole way. But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate: http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434 "Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-) Yes, that's one of their all-time best. My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every residence to every destination is ridiculous. And my point is that IF you have separate bicycle facilities like that car drivers again believe you don't belong on their roads. Also true. I forget how many states now have mandatory sidepath laws. Whatever the number, it's too high. - Frank Krygowski |
#18
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Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure
On 2017-08-12 10:03, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:55:02 -0700, Joerg wrote: lifting the bike over some low fences Exactly how low? I don't think I could lift my bike over a fence much above knee high, and I can't think of a use for a fence that low -- confining turtles? A symbolic boundary marker? About 2ft, those orange habitat delimiters. There is construction pending and they want to keep the bulldozers out of that. As usual, hikers and cyclist are of zero importance to those folks. This is why it is good that we have rules in most jurisdictions around here that bike lanes or paths must be built when new developments go in. Folsom often even requires class I. If they didn't then the builders would not spend one red cent on that. Of course I *am* seventy-six, female, and have a damaged rotator cuff. But there is also the problem of getting *me* over the fence without damaging it. When I was eight, I could climb a fence at the corner post, but at a hundred and sixty-eight pounds, fence-climbing is right out, unless it is built like a ladder. I think I *have* seen a board panel in a wire fence, but can't remember when and where. I am a tad heavier but I have no problem lifting a bike and myself over a regular cattle fence. Sometimes that is needed when a gate is recalcitrant (but without trespassing). Or when I have to climb over to open a latch from the inside to get a runaway farm animal back in. Chronic rotator cuff issues can prevent that but other than that it's mostly a matter of training. Being female shouldn't make a difference. My sister was always the better tree climber compared to us boys. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#19
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Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:31:51 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 17:45, AMuzi wrote: On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote: https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition Bike Summit. Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S. has the lowest number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the highest death rate. No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the numbers on slide 6 are what they are. When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands (Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those 20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with fast traffic at times which some potentially interested cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not exactly fun. But there's no end to that argument. People who live at a bus stop and work at another think buses are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for some people they are merely inconvenient but for most people buses are not useful in any way. I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday with a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a distant bike trail. But when we first moved to town and had just one car, I looked into riding a bus the seven or so miles to work. It would have taken far longer than just biking the whole way. But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate: http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434 "Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-) Yes, that's one of their all-time best. My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every residence to every destination is ridiculous. Those are not kiddie paths and they do almost go from residence to destination in the Netherlands. The only way to experience this is to actually stay there a few weeks and ride all the time. When I worked in Hengelo we rented a house sight-unseen and split the cost between four people. When I got there it turned out to have a bike path right in front and the company also had a bike path system connector straight into a massive bicycle parking lot. At one section we had three lanes on the bike path while car drivers only had two. Having grown up in Germany I was pleasantly surprised but the three others who grew up in the Netherlands considered that to be normal. You don't need it to every house. Folsom is an example how to do it correctly. They have built a network of bike paths going through nearly all residential and many commercial areas. Most destinations require a few hundred yards of street riding but that is on low-traffic streets. Except in some inner city areas but the very skittish could always hop off and push the bike on a sidewalk for a few yards (I always ride in the street). Stevenage and Milton Keynes and other "new towns" in Britain are also examples of how to do it correctly. One can bicycle from anywhere to anywhere without interacting with cars. Except almost nobody bothers. It's easier to drive. - Frank Krygowski |
#20
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Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:45:41 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 16:52, sms wrote: I would never move to a place like that if I was interested in transportational cycling. Indeed. I chose my residence carefully, so transporational cycling was possible. Joerg should have done the same. Sometimes it's good to move somewhere and then help estabishing a cycling culture, also pushing for an infrastructure. Else it'll never get expanded. So what have you done to establish a cycling culture there? All we've heard about is whining that riding there is dangerous. - Frank Krygowski |
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