How many patches per tube?

For me, it depends on the bike's use. For commuting, I use patched
tubes until it's convenient to put a new tube on. I carry a spare
anyway, and I'm never more than a few miles from home or work. I try
to minimize the chance of a flat by using tire liners and sometimes
Slime. I also won't use more than 1 patch per tube, though that may
be overly conservative.

For long rides on my road bike, I stick to un-patched tubes since I
don't want to get stranded ~30 miles from home if a patch leaks. I
carry a spare tube and a patch kit for emergencies, but so far I
haven't needed the patches (knock on helmet).

Whenever an online retailer has tubes on sale, I often by 3-4. Often
you can find them for ~$2 on sale. These days I like to keep a
reserve stock of about 4-6 tubes for each bike. On average I seem to
get 2-3 flats per year, so this is really cheap insurance.


-JR

"dgk" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:03:59 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

dgk wrote:
:: It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt
:: and take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
:: reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.
::
:: And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
:: now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.
::
:: Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
:: that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
:: as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
:: spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

Well, if the cost of tubes is an issue, I'd do it your way. If not, I'd
just toss it.

In general, I'd say that a patched tube doesn't work as well as a new
tube,
since the patched tube might not be patched well in all cases (if it is
then
it will likely work fine). The correct answer is: it depends. If you
patch
a lot of tubes and are good at it, then no problem, espeically if you like
saving money & don't mind patching. Me, with those deals at
performance.com, I just toss them. I do carry a patch kit and spares,
though, cause you never know what might happen on the road.



Well, on the way home I noticed that the tire seemed a bit low so I
stopped to put more air into it; no gauge while on the road. That
resulted in the tire losing more air as I cursed, and then realized
that the tire just wasn't being inflated. I took it off, and the valve
was pulling off the tube.

When I'm pumplng with that little portable pump I hold the valve and
nearby spokes with one hand and pump with the other. I don't know what
caused the valve to rip, but I was very ****ed.

So I went back to the first tube (patched during the day) and all is
well now. I stopped at a LBS on the way home and picked up another
tube - $8.00. I think I'll get a few online the next time I order
something.

Not that anyone would do this but the LBS said presta tubes without the
grommet can end up easily with a broken valve.

"Claire Petersky" wrote in message
hlink.net...
"dgk" wrote in message
...

DGK wrote: Do patches work as well as a new tube?

Claire wrote: Maybe better? It's a little thicker where the patch is.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Interesting. I'm going to do my Carl Fogel impression and run a test. I'm
going to buy a new tube and patch it before I use it, to see how well it
holds air. ;-)

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 16:52:48 GMT, "nash"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:03:59 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

dgk wrote:
:: It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt
:: and take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
:: reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.
::
:: And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
:: now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.
::
:: Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
:: that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
:: as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
:: spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

Well, if the cost of tubes is an issue, I'd do it your way. If not, I'd
just toss it.

In general, I'd say that a patched tube doesn't work as well as a new
tube,
since the patched tube might not be patched well in all cases (if it is
then
it will likely work fine). The correct answer is: it depends. If you
patch
a lot of tubes and are good at it, then no problem, espeically if you like
saving money & don't mind patching. Me, with those deals at
performance.com, I just toss them. I do carry a patch kit and spares,
though, cause you never know what might happen on the road.



Well, on the way home I noticed that the tire seemed a bit low so I
stopped to put more air into it; no gauge while on the road. That
resulted in the tire losing more air as I cursed, and then realized
that the tire just wasn't being inflated. I took it off, and the valve
was pulling off the tube.

When I'm pumplng with that little portable pump I hold the valve and
nearby spokes with one hand and pump with the other. I don't know what
caused the valve to rip, but I was very ****ed.

So I went back to the first tube (patched during the day) and all is
well now. I stopped at a LBS on the way home and picked up another
tube - $8.00. I think I'll get a few online the next time I order
something.

Not that anyone would do this but the LBS said presta tubes without the
grommet can end up easily with a broken valve.


Ah, these are schrader?

"dgk" wrote in message
...
It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt and
take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.

And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.

Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

I haven't had a flat or a blowout in over 2 years. I went to thickwalled
self sealer tubes. They go down but when you pump them back up and ride
they stay up.

In article ,
"Daryl Hunt" writes:

I haven't had a flat or a blowout in over 2 years. I went to thickwalled

Now ya done it :-)


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

On Apr 3, 11:46 am, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:
"Claire Petersky" wrote in message

hlink.net... "dgk" wrote in message
.. .

DGK wrote: Do patches work as well as a new tube?

Claire wrote: Maybe better? It's a little thicker where the patch is.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Interesting. I'm going to do my Carl Fogel impression and run a test. I'm
going to buy a new tube and patch it before I use it, to see how well it
holds air. ;-)

Dear Leo,

In case you're serious . . .



The elderly tube with 11 patches (3 different kinds) that Jobst just
sent me held air just fine:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...993e885fc67b80

In any case, the patch material is thicker than the tube, and only an
insignificant area is involved--the enormous area of the whole inner
tube dwarfs the tiny hole covered by the patch.

Bicycle inner tubes lose pressure because the various gases inside
them are soluble in butyl rubber.

Normal air is ~80% N2, ~20% O2, and ~1% CO2 and other gases.

The three main gases are soluble in butyl rubber, meaning that they
dissolve through the solid wall.

N2 is soluble in butyl rubber at a rate of ~10, while O2 goes through
the same rubber more than twice as fast at a rate of ~23 units.

CO2 escapes at a rate of ~150, which is why tubes pumped up with CO2
inflators go flat so quickly--the CO2 goes through the rubber roughly
15 times as fast as normal air:

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...2329.Ch.r.html

The gases are even more soluble in latex rubber, which is why you have
to pump unpatched latex tubes up so often.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

wrote: (clip) N2 is soluble in butyl rubber at a
rate of ~10, while O2 goes through the same rubber more than twice as fast
at a rate of ~23 units. (clip)
Yesm and on that basis, some tire shops inflate with nitrogen. Costco made
a biog deal about this a while back--I'm mot sure whether they are still
doing it. But anyhow, the claim is that if you inflate with nitrogen, the
pressure will stay up better. However, since the oxygen preferentially
oozes out, when you reinflate with a pump or with filling station air, you
wind up with more than 80% nitrogen, and each time you do this, the
ciomposition inside the tube approaches the usual 80/20 ratio.

So, why bother. In my opinion it's just hype.

On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:02:24 -0600, "Daryl Hunt"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote in message
.. .
It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt and
take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.

And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.

Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

I haven't had a flat or a blowout in over 2 years. I went to thickwalled
self sealer tubes. They go down but when you pump them back up and ride
they stay up.



What's the downside to using selfsealing tubes? I see Nashbar has them
on sale.

I really hate flats. I'm not sure just why. Maybe it's sitting on
filty sidewalks while I try to get the tire off without ripping the
tube more. Or maybe it's having to put my hands all over a tire that
just rode through lots of dog poop and people spit. Maybe it's that
bit about trying to stretch a sidewall over a rim that is just a
smidgen too small.

Or it could be trying to fill the tire with that teeny little pump
while attempting to avoid ripping the valve out.

It's probably some combination of those. Well, at least the weather is
getting nicer and I'm not doing it while sitting in slush.

"dgk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:02:24 -0600, "Daryl Hunt"
wrote:


"dgk" wrote in message
. ..
It was quite wet this morning for my commute. Normally I just punt and
take the train but with a good tailwind this morning and the wind
reversing for this afternoon, I just had to go.

And, as often happens when I bike in the wet, I got a flat. This tube
now has three patches, two of the "instant" no-glue type.

Do patches work as well as a new tube? I haven't had a patch go bad
that I know of. I actually alternate tubes since I carry a spare tube
as well as a patch kit, so the newly patched tube just becomes the
spare and doesn't even get used till the next flat.

I haven't had a flat or a blowout in over 2 years. I went to thickwalled
self sealer tubes. They go down but when you pump them back up and ride
they stay up.



What's the downside to using selfsealing tubes? I see Nashbar has them
on sale.

Price and weight only.



I really hate flats. I'm not sure just why. Maybe it's sitting on
filty sidewalks while I try to get the tire off without ripping the
tube more. Or maybe it's having to put my hands all over a tire that
just rode through lots of dog poop and people spit. Maybe it's that
bit about trying to stretch a sidewall over a rim that is just a
smidgen too small.

Or it could be trying to fill the tire with that teeny little pump
while attempting to avoid ripping the valve out.

It's probably some combination of those. Well, at least the weather is
getting nicer and I'm not doing it while sitting in slush.

The upside is you no longer have what you described above.