Ride an SUB not an SUV

George Conklin wrote:

Ok, I'll post from a friend from UK who states to us, "American drivers
are much better behaved than at home."

I can quite believe you'd make that up too.


So there. And the EU accident data is from one of their own reports.

You're suggesting it's bogus ?

I suggest you grow up.

You're an utter idiot.

Graham

Kevin Rhodes wrote:

In Europe, if you have an accident at speed on a highway you are more likely to
die in that accident - higher speeds and smaller cars.

I doubt that in fact. For starters most Europeans actually wear their seat belts.

Graham

George Conklin wrote:

But anti-skid brakes changed nothing, unfortunately, in the real world.

Probably just another US-only phenomenon.

Graham

Bill wrote:

George Conklin wrote:

You mean fender benders don't count? Do count? No, the overall rate
death rate is what safer cars is designed to lower, as in air bags, strong
roofs, crush zones and so forth and so on. Anti-skid technology may or may
not change rates in both parts of the world, saving many lives, we are told.
But anti-skid brakes changed nothing, unfortunately, in the real world.

Anti skid brakes did do something. They made the average driver think
that since he had them the car would magically stop and avoid that
accident they drove themselves into. The same thing happens to people
with 4 wheel drive. They think that because they can drive through rough
conditions that cars can't handle that they can stop better too. Sorry,
bad logic. 4 wheel drive is absolutely useless in a panic stop.
People need to be educated about vehicle dynamics and not just told how
safe their car is when they do crash it. Air bags only work after the
crash has started, and the driver may never have gotten into that
situation without the false security that made him push the limits, just
a little too far.

Defensive driving is the answer but you have to learn to do that.

Graham

Eeyore wrote:

Bill wrote:

George Conklin wrote:
You mean fender benders don't count? Do count? No, the overall rate
death rate is what safer cars is designed to lower, as in air bags, strong
roofs, crush zones and so forth and so on. Anti-skid technology may or may
not change rates in both parts of the world, saving many lives, we are told.
But anti-skid brakes changed nothing, unfortunately, in the real world.
Anti skid brakes did do something. They made the average driver think
that since he had them the car would magically stop and avoid that
accident they drove themselves into. The same thing happens to people
with 4 wheel drive. They think that because they can drive through rough
conditions that cars can't handle that they can stop better too. Sorry,
bad logic. 4 wheel drive is absolutely useless in a panic stop.
People need to be educated about vehicle dynamics and not just told how
safe their car is when they do crash it. Air bags only work after the
crash has started, and the driver may never have gotten into that
situation without the false security that made him push the limits, just
a little too far.

Defensive driving is the answer but you have to learn to do that.

Graham

Situational awareness!
Something Americans lack. My granddaughter (by way of stepdaughter) has
wrecked 3 cars, all by rear ending another and all while yapping on her
cell phone. Now her mom wants to buy her a bigger car or pickup truck.
Why? She'll wind up killing someone in a smaller car.
It seems to be an American thing.
Me, I like sticks and the lost art of double clutching down shifts,
whilst my wife thinks I don't know what I'm doing.
Some know and enjoy, some will never have a clue.
Bill Baka

"Bill" wrote in message
. ..
George Conklin wrote:

You mean fender benders don't count? Do count? No, the overall rate
death rate is what safer cars is designed to lower, as in air bags,
strong
roofs, crush zones and so forth and so on. Anti-skid technology may or
may
not change rates in both parts of the world, saving many lives, we are
told.
But anti-skid brakes changed nothing, unfortunately, in the real world.


Anti skid brakes did do something. They made the average driver think
that since he had them the car would magically stop and avoid that
accident they drove themselves into. The same thing happens to people
with 4 wheel drive. They think that because they can drive through rough
conditions that cars can't handle that they can stop better too. Sorry,
bad logic. 4 wheel drive is absolutely useless in a panic stop.
People need to be educated about vehicle dynamics and not just told how
safe their car is when they do crash it. Air bags only work after the
crash has started, and the driver may never have gotten into that
situation without the false security that made him push the limits, just
a little too far.
Bill Baka

I use the 4-wheel drive daily in at the cabin, simply because of the 30
degree driveway and also for thing like pulling the tractor out of the
stream. But not on the highway... Anti-lock brakes were supposed to stop
accidents but statistically the don't. My feeling on the first set I had (a
Plymouth Van) was that the lengthened stopping distances when one wheel hit
gravel near a local intersection, causing me to drift out into traffic.
Otherwise, the car would have stopped with 3 wheels on solid pavement. I
don't know what would have happened if the road happened to be all dirt, but
this problem came about daily otherwise. With more modern systems, this
problem has been solved.

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Kevin Rhodes wrote:

In Europe, if you have an accident at speed on a highway you are more
likely to
die in that accident - higher speeds and smaller cars.

I doubt that in fact. For starters most Europeans actually wear their seat
belts.

Graham


93% locally wear them here.

George Conklin wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
. ..
Anti skid brakes did do something. They made the average driver think
that since he had them the car would magically stop and avoid that
accident they drove themselves into. The same thing happens to people
with 4 wheel drive. They think that because they can drive through rough
conditions that cars can't handle that they can stop better too. Sorry,
bad logic. 4 wheel drive is absolutely useless in a panic stop.
People need to be educated about vehicle dynamics and not just told how
safe their car is when they do crash it. Air bags only work after the
crash has started, and the driver may never have gotten into that
situation without the false security that made him push the limits, just
a little too far.
Bill Baka

I use the 4-wheel drive daily in at the cabin, simply because of the 30
degree driveway and also for thing like pulling the tractor out of the
stream.

How does one get a tractor stuck in a stream????

But not on the highway...

A friend way back in the 60's had a WWII military ambulance and when he
put it in 4 wheel drive it would bind up and chirp the tires every few
hundred feet. That was a strictly business off road truck.
Using 4WD on the highway makes no sense at all, especially over 25 MPH.
If you need 4WD to get up to that speed you'd better hope you don't have
to stop fast.

Anti-lock brakes were supposed to stop
accidents but statistically the don't.

Nothing is idiot proof, but a government study can say otherwise. Air
bags, crush zones, ABS, etc., just make a bad driver more careless and
give the good drivers a false sense of security that may make them drive
worse.

My feeling on the first set I had (a
Plymouth Van) was that the lengthened stopping distances when one wheel hit
gravel near a local intersection, causing me to drift out into traffic.
Otherwise, the car would have stopped with 3 wheels on solid pavement. I
don't know what would have happened if the road happened to be all dirt, but
this problem came about daily otherwise. With more modern systems, this
problem has been solved.


And yet I prefer a car with little or no electronics involved so the end
result is what I did, not what the car thought it should do. I'm getting
really leery of any new cars because they have too much junk built in.
Anybody who needs a 'Tom-Tom' to get from point A to point B shouldn't
be driving. Those things are a distraction themselves. And DVD players
for the kids in the back seat? The need to be 'entertained' 24/7 is
getting out of hand.
When I was a kid we used to invent games like spotting out of state
license plates, or actually reading the Burma-Shave signs at one word
per sign.
Sigh. Simpler times.
My big whoopee with my dad was when he got his brand new 1955 Mercury
and tried to peg it on a Wisconsin highway. He got it to 112 MPH
indicated and we were on a rolling road so it was like a high speed
roller coaster. Seat belts? Hah. I was standing in the rear looking over
his shoulder to see if he could hit 120.
And youse guys wonder where I get the need for speed.
Bill Baka

"Bill" wrote in message
. ..
George Conklin wrote:

You mean fender benders don't count? Do count? No, the overall rate
death rate is what safer cars is designed to lower, as in air bags,
strong
roofs, crush zones and so forth and so on. Anti-skid technology may or
may
not change rates in both parts of the world, saving many lives, we are
told.
But anti-skid brakes changed nothing, unfortunately, in the real world.


Anti skid brakes did do something. They made the average driver think that
since he had them the car would magically stop and avoid that accident
they drove themselves into. The same thing happens to people with 4 wheel
drive. They think that because they can drive through rough conditions
that cars can't handle that they can stop better too. Sorry, bad logic. 4
wheel drive is absolutely useless in a panic stop.
People need to be educated about vehicle dynamics and not just told how
safe their car is when they do crash it. Air bags only work after the
crash has started, and the driver may never have gotten into that
situation without the false security that made him push the limits, just a
little too far.
Bill Baka

I especially do not like the fact they never tell anyone that air bags can
cause serious damage to the person they are saving. My sister got into an
accident thinking the opposing driver was acknowledging to stop. She conked
out and broke the sternum and lost a years wages, accident was 50/50(not
according to her lawyer) but she has seen no money for her therapy.
Overconfidence 'cause of these things is criminal.

nash wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message
. ..
Anti skid brakes did do something. They made the average driver think that
since he had them the car would magically stop and avoid that accident
they drove themselves into. The same thing happens to people with 4 wheel
drive. They think that because they can drive through rough conditions
that cars can't handle that they can stop better too. Sorry, bad logic. 4
wheel drive is absolutely useless in a panic stop.
People need to be educated about vehicle dynamics and not just told how
safe their car is when they do crash it. Air bags only work after the
crash has started, and the driver may never have gotten into that
situation without the false security that made him push the limits, just a
little too far.
Bill Baka

I especially do not like the fact they never tell anyone that air bags can
cause serious damage to the person they are saving. My sister got into an
accident thinking the opposing driver was acknowledging to stop. She conked
out and broke the sternum and lost a years wages, accident was 50/50(not
according to her lawyer) but she has seen no money for her therapy.
Overconfidence 'cause of these things is criminal.


Exactly, not to mention the possible loss of hearing or actually kill
someone in the passenger seat who is leaning over and gets a broken
neck. There was a rash of those reports in the news a few years ago, but
somebody must have told the networks to stop reporting it.
?????
Bill Baka