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How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?



 
 
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  #121  
Old January 26th 09, 12:38 AM posted to alt.war.vietnam,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.racing,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?

On Jan 24, 6:24*pm, Chalo wrote:
SMS wrote:

It's really annoying have so few bicycles come standard with basic
accessories, especially on commute and touring bicycles where it's
pretty well accepted that the buyer will be adding things like racks,
fenders, bells, bottle cages, etc. $100 worth of retail accessories
would cost the bicycle manufacturer about $8, which would end up adding
maybe $22-25 to the retail cost. I was kind of impressed that the
Raleigh Sojourn comes with most of that stuff.


Bike manufacturers have a symbiotic relationship with bike retailers,
which are usually service shops as well. *Retailers depend heavily
upon accessory sales. *When I was in the bike shop business, markups
on complete bikes ran in the 35% range, while markups on accessories
were usually 100%. *The margin on bikes might cover the cost of
keeping bikes on the floor, but it was the margin on everything else
that made it plausible to do business.


That's surprising to me (the bike markup, I had an idea what the
component markup was). Are shops in the habit of selling bikes for
what they paid when they need to get them off the floor for the next
years model? I think I paid around 65%, maybe 70% of MSRP for my last
bike and often see bikes on sale for 50-60% of MSRP. I know when a
car dealer tells you they're actually losing money selling you a car
at a certain price it's hot air - do bike shops actually do this?

As an aside, I've never bought a car from a dealership but I've come
close and am ruthless in negotiations (I've also helped others
negotiate cars from dealers). When it comes to my LBS I want it to be
a transaction that works for everyone, which includes them making some
$. Aside from the joking suggestion they throw in a water bottle and
cage I paid what they ended up asking for my Sunday bike, and they
were more than happy to give it to me at that price to get it off the
floor (and I presume give me another bike to go to them for parts for,
and keep a happy customer happy). It also came with a free tune-up
that I never used which would cost them additional time, which is
money.
Ads
  #122  
Old January 26th 09, 01:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?

Lou Holtman wrote:

That's strange as bike commuters in the US are ´weird´ anyway ;-)
I visited several bikeshops when I were in the US last september and the
choice of commuter bikes is pathetic.
Here is a link to one of the bikeshops where I live. In a city of 40000
people we have more than a dozen of shops like that.

http://www.vanhoogstraten.nl/FIETSEN.HTM



sigh

I wish the USA was this bike enabled!
  #123  
Old January 26th 09, 01:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc
A Muzi
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Default How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?

Lou Holtman wrote:
That's strange as bike commuters in the US are ´weird´ anyway ;-)
I visited several bikeshops when I were in the US last september and the
choice of commuter bikes is pathetic.
Here is a link to one of the bikeshops where I live. In a city of 40000
people we have more than a dozen of shops like that.
http://www.vanhoogstraten.nl/FIETSEN.HTM


wrote:
sigh
I wish the USA was this bike enabled!


er, it is:
http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/hybrid/detour-deluxe/
http://bianchiusa.com/09_xt_milano_citta.html

Always has been.

Fully accessorized bikes, from the carriers-mudguards-triple
crank-cantis Gitane Hosteler right up to today remain 'niche' items.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
  #124  
Old January 26th 09, 02:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?

A Muzi wrote:

I wish the USA was this bike enabled!


er, it is:
http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/hybrid/detour-deluxe/
http://bianchiusa.com/09_xt_milano_citta.html

Always has been.


No..what I meant was that I wish towns of 40,000 in the
USA had that many bike shops!

Indicating that Americans rode bikes more than they do
  #125  
Old January 26th 09, 09:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc
Peter Clinch
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Posts: 4,852
Default How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?

Frank Krygowski wrote:

But aren't some of the differences explained by the Netherlands' dead
flat terrain and much shorter commuting distances?


Up to a point, but not any further. Look hard enough and you'll find
parts of the US and UK which are remarkably flat too, and Joe Punter
won't be riding what his Cloggie cousins will be riding. Far more
likely /not/ to have mudguards, built in lighting or rack and far more
likely the rider will be troubling themselves with a "sporty" rucksack.

Quite why anyone would want to commute a /greater/ distance with a
rucksack as a typical case I'm not sure, but that's what I see on quite
a few folk.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #126  
Old January 26th 09, 02:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc
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Default How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?

On Jan 26, 3:49*am, Peter Clinch wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
But aren't some of the differences explained by the Netherlands' dead
flat terrain and much shorter commuting distances?


Up to a point, but not any further. *Look hard enough and you'll find
parts of the US and UK which are remarkably flat too, and Joe Punter
won't be riding what his Cloggie cousins will be riding. *Far more
likely /not/ to have mudguards, built in lighting or rack and far more
likely the rider will be troubling themselves with a "sporty" rucksack.

Quite why anyone would want to commute a /greater/ distance with a
rucksack as a typical case I'm not sure, but that's what I see on quite
a few folk.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch * * * * * * * * * *Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 * Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 * * * * * * *Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net * *http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/


I don't mind riding ~10 miles road with a messenger bag or camelback,
or all day MTBing with a camelback, but for longer road rides I prefer
not to carry anything. On-road, somwhere around 30-40 miles I'm
likely to start leaving clothes at my destination, jamming what I need
in a saddle bag and riding in padded (although normal looking) MTB
shorts. Don't get me wrong, I'll ride 50 miles with a pack on the
rare occasion the need presents itself, but that's so rare it's not
worth setting up a bike for. In the ~1 year I've had a "real" road
bike that's happened once. I've yet to have any reason to ride any
farther than that with anything but my repair kit & a cliff bar in the
saddle bag, water bottles and some cash to refill said bottles. If
I'm riding more than 50 miles it tends to be a recreational ride that
will start and end at my house, or start at my office and end at my
house, etc.
  #127  
Old January 26th 09, 04:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
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Default How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?

On Jan 26, 3:49*am, Peter Clinch wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
But aren't some of the differences explained by the Netherlands' dead
flat terrain and much shorter commuting distances?


Up to a point, but not any further. *Look hard enough and you'll find
parts of the US and UK which are remarkably flat too, and Joe Punter
won't be riding what his Cloggie cousins will be riding. *Far more
likely /not/ to have mudguards, built in lighting or rack and far more
likely the rider will be troubling themselves with a "sporty" rucksack.

Quite why anyone would want to commute a /greater/ distance with a
rucksack as a typical case I'm not sure, but that's what I see on quite
a few folk.


I completely agree that a commuting bike needs utility accessories.
Mine has fenders, generator lights and reflectors (and an additional
blinkie taillight), a large handlebar bag, a rear rack, interrupter
auxiliary brake levers, and probably some other stuff I'm not thinking
of.

But it's a Raleigh Super Course, and weighs probably 30 pounds with
all that. My impression was that most Dutch bikes were significantly
heavier. I'm not a weight weenie, but I wouldn't like hauling a lot
more weight out of the valley. Can someone give me a typical Dutch
utility bike's weight?

Also, I've got drop bars, which I greatly prefer for any distance
over, say, three miles.

- Frank Krygowski
  #128  
Old January 26th 09, 05:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc
Lou Holtman[_3_]
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Posts: 881
Default How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?

Frank Krygowski schreef:
On Jan 26, 3:49 am, Peter Clinch wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
But aren't some of the differences explained by the Netherlands' dead
flat terrain and much shorter commuting distances?

Up to a point, but not any further. Look hard enough and you'll find
parts of the US and UK which are remarkably flat too, and Joe Punter
won't be riding what his Cloggie cousins will be riding. Far more
likely /not/ to have mudguards, built in lighting or rack and far more
likely the rider will be troubling themselves with a "sporty" rucksack.

Quite why anyone would want to commute a /greater/ distance with a
rucksack as a typical case I'm not sure, but that's what I see on quite
a few folk.


I completely agree that a commuting bike needs utility accessories.
Mine has fenders, generator lights and reflectors (and an additional
blinkie taillight), a large handlebar bag, a rear rack, interrupter
auxiliary brake levers, and probably some other stuff I'm not thinking
of.

But it's a Raleigh Super Course, and weighs probably 30 pounds with
all that. My impression was that most Dutch bikes were significantly
heavier. I'm not a weight weenie, but I wouldn't like hauling a lot
more weight out of the valley. Can someone give me a typical Dutch
utility bike's weight?


It varies from 15 to 20 kg. The 20 kg bike has drumbrakes, suspension
fork and gearhub. An example is:

http://www.rih.nl/site/modellen/delt...odel/index.php

The lighter 15 kg one will have no suspension fork, V-brakes and
derailleur gears. An example is:

http://www.rih.nl/site/modellen/z-85...odel/index.php

Both are fully equiped bikes, you can buy them at any bikeshop any time
and you have the choice between several brands.


Lou

  #129  
Old January 26th 09, 08:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?

On Jan 25, 4:01*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
Frank Krygowski schreef:
Frank Krygowski schreef:



On Jan 25, 7:32 am, Lou Holtman wrote:
Clive George schreef:


"terryc" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:53:04 -0800, Frank Krygowski wrote:
But I agree that riders may want different choices. *Maybe the
ultimate is a custom bike with all accessories you want designed and
built as a system... for those who can afford such a thing.
Different people, = different touring = different bicycles.
The Q is "Is there enough people who want a particular combo to justify it
being prebuilt"?
I'd suggest that if it was, then it would have been already done.
And it has - just in places where cyling for transport is the norm, not the
exception.
Indeed. As a Dutchman I scratch my head everytime when I see what is
considered a commuter bike in the US.


But aren't some of the differences explained by the Netherlands' dead
flat terrain and much shorter commuting distances?


My commuter, modified and used for 30+ years, works very well for my 7
mile (each way) ride with the long climb out of the valley. *I
wouldn't want to haul a standard Dutch bike up that hill, nor ride at
the slow speed such a bike promotes.


- Frank Krygowski


Frank, I'm not talking about a city bike. A 7 mile commute is even in
the Netherlands very common. I live close to my work and I have to ride
10 km one way. Yes it's dead flat out here but most commuter bikes have
3x9 gears (I don't know why but still) or a 8 speed gearhub, but they
also have standard fenders, full light system, luggage rack, chaincase,
kickstand, pump, saddlebag etc. People would not accept a bike with less.

Lou


And a frame lock. Both my Dutch town and country bikes came with
fitted frame locks as standard. I was annoyed when my new German bike
came without a lock. It isn't the extra expense but the nuisance of
having to order the thing.

And coat protectors. Both my Dutch town and country bikes came with
coat protectors too. My new German bike could do with those too, even
after I fit spoilers and crud-catchers to the mudguards.

It really is very useful to be able to ride the bicycle in the same
clothes you will wear to the office, or church, or a restaurant. But
that concept is unknown in America, where cycling is hard and dirty
and lacks the common graces, if our friends here on RBT are
representative witnesses.

Andre Jute
Now where are my khakis and poplin shirts, darling? I niff spring in
the air and shall want them for cycling.




  #130  
Old January 27th 09, 12:38 AM posted to alt.war.vietnam,rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.racing,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,rec.bicycles.misc
Michael Press
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Posts: 9,202
Default How come bicycle clothing looks so silly?

In article
,
" wrote:

On Jan 24, 6:24*pm, Chalo wrote:
SMS wrote:

It's really annoying have so few bicycles come standard with basic
accessories, especially on commute and touring bicycles where it's
pretty well accepted that the buyer will be adding things like racks,
fenders, bells, bottle cages, etc. $100 worth of retail accessories
would cost the bicycle manufacturer about $8, which would end up adding
maybe $22-25 to the retail cost. I was kind of impressed that the
Raleigh Sojourn comes with most of that stuff.


Bike manufacturers have a symbiotic relationship with bike retailers,
which are usually service shops as well. *Retailers depend heavily
upon accessory sales. *When I was in the bike shop business, markups
on complete bikes ran in the 35% range, while markups on accessories
were usually 100%. *The margin on bikes might cover the cost of
keeping bikes on the floor, but it was the margin on everything else
that made it plausible to do business.


That's surprising to me (the bike markup, I had an idea what the
component markup was). Are shops in the habit of selling bikes for
what they paid when they need to get them off the floor for the next
years model? I think I paid around 65%, maybe 70% of MSRP for my last
bike and often see bikes on sale for 50-60% of MSRP. I know when a
car dealer tells you they're actually losing money selling you a car
at a certain price it's hot air - do bike shops actually do this?

As an aside, I've never bought a car from a dealership but I've come
close and am ruthless in negotiations (I've also helped others
negotiate cars from dealers).


I did buy a new car at a dealership; am happy with the car and the
purchase. I decided what car and features I wanted and what a fair
price was. The saleswoman wrote up a contract, then said she was
going to the sales manager to have it reviewed. I said that if
the sales manager did not pass on it, I would be lowering my offer.
She laughed.

--
Michael Press
 




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