Questions about value of bicycles.

On 4/12/2021 11:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op maandag 12 april 2021 om 16:54:50 UTC+2 schreef :
On Sunday, April 11, 2021 at 3:36:34 PM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
Which one of you owns a bicycle shop and sells bicycles so that you know
the true worth of a bicycle? My idea that the only one actually able to
make such evaluations is Andrew. So perhaps Jay could suggest why he
believes my bike to be worth less than the average cost of other like
bikes on eBay based upon his belief that having a bike provided to him at
special dealers discount makes him an expert on value?

Not read said thread as I generally skip the arguments, the value will be
what ever it sells for as and when you do.
That's quite true Roger and I've already turned down offers well above that moronic pricing of Scharf who insists on being ignorant of every part of the world around him.

I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA
I got offers for around 500-600 euro because it was 6 years old at that time, aluminum frame and no disk brakes. No one cares about the pristine condition and that it had quality parts and weighs 7.5 kg including pedals. I turned them all down. Fortunately a son of a colleague was looking for a bike and that colleague knows how I take care of my stuff and was able to sell the bike for 975 euro with another (cheaper) saddle and one water bottle cage (King Cage).

Saturday I did a little tuneup on the bike of a friend who lives about
an hour away. She had taken the bike into a shop in her city. The
salesman tried to convince her that it wasn't worth tuning up, that it
was time to buy a new bike because it was five years old.

I'm sure there were people who would have accepted that advice. They'd
be very unlikely to buy a 6-year-old bike. Which is sad.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip

I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA

In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants
disc brakes whether it makes sense or not.

Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers
because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that
it adds.

Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value,
though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders.

Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining
reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have
unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth.

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:53:18 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Do you take the word of the Internet for the value of a home for sale?

YES!!!!!!!! I use the internet to determine the value of houses in my neighborhood and city. I use the internet to look up sales of houses in my neighborhood on the county property tax assessor website. It shows all past sales so is a very real FACT of what houses sell for in my neighborhood. I use Zillow and other online tools to look up what houses are being sold for in my neighborhood by realtors. I then look at the descriptions and pictures from these various ONLINE sites and determine how my house fits in. But for the most part these ONLINE sources give a range or target for pricing in my neighborhood. I know from these ONLINE sources that trying to sell my house for $1 million would be out of range. And trying to sell my house for $100k would also be out of range. I also read internet stories telling how mortgage rates have been falling and making it easier, cheaper to buy houses. And more internet stories about how the real estate market has been going up and up and up for years all across the country. DANGED INTERNET!!!!!!!!!!!

On 4/12/2021 10:35 AM, wrote:
On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:53:18 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Do you take the word of the Internet for the value of a home for sale?

YES!!!!!!!! I use the internet to determine the value of houses in my neighborhood and city. I use the internet to look up sales of houses in my neighborhood on the county property tax assessor website. It shows all past sales so is a very real FACT of what houses sell for in my neighborhood.

snip

True.

Zillow and other sites use sales of comparable properties in the
neighborhood so they give a pretty good idea of values. During the
pandemic, property values have skyrocketed in the Bay Area and the
supply of single family homes for sale is very low.

Tom lives in a 1955 tract home, of 1454 square feet, that sold for $70K
in 1978 and is now valued at nearly $900K. According to Zillow it's gone
up by nearly $70,000 just in the last 30 days.

Used bicycles are much harder to determine the value of. The Bicycle
Blue Book gives you some indication and lists private party value and
trade-in value.

Used bicycles are a lot different than used houses or used cars. A
warranty on a car transfers to the new owner. A lifetime warranty on a
bicycle frame does not transfer. With steel and aluminum frames this may
not have mattered much, with carbon-fiber frames it matters a lot more.
Some items just don't retain their value well no matter how much the
person paid for the item. TVs, furniture, appliances all lose much of
their value. Actually a used bicycle does well if you can sell it for
60% of the price paid new. But as I stated, this is something that he
has to find out for himself, no one here is going to convince him of it.
And who knows, he may find someone to pay his asking price, not everyone
is a knowledgeable buyer.

On 4/12/2021 11:22 AM, Mark J. wrote:

snip

My understanding 40 years ago was that selling *bikes* was not really a
profitable undertaking for *bike shops*, that the profit really came
from parts, accessories, and service.Â* The markup just wasn't that high
on *bikes*.Â* This may have changed in the intervening years.

The margin on new bikes, sold at MSRP, is 25-35%, for Trek. Trek cut the
margins to shops for online sales.

There are considerable costs to the shop for assembly. Parts and
accessories typically have "Keystone" margins or better, Keystone is
100% markup over wholesale.

In an area with high costs for leasing space, and high wages, you have
to sell a lot of high-value bicycles and a lot of parts and accessories
to be able to make it. You're not going to survive selling mainly
$300-500 entry level bikes at 25-35% margins. On a $3000 bike, even at
only 25% margin, you're doing pretty well, but those aren't the majority
of sales.

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 1:19:05 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:
I know someone who buys quality used bikes, that need work, and fixes
them up. He buys them for very low prices because the owner doesn't want
to pay bike-shop prices for repairs. He does okay selling them for
typically 6x to 8x what he pays.

6 to 8 times what he pays to purchase? Is he literally stealing the bike and counting the gas money to drive to and from the theft as his purchase price? I suppose you could find bikes on those one or two days a year when the city says make a pile of trash on your front yard and we will pick it all up. But I doubt there are any quality bikes in those piles. Just 1970s K-Mart bikes. And in the USA or Canada I doubt there are enough European Reynolds, Columbus Nuevo Record bikes laying around in garages that are quality. Maybe in Europe you could find some of these bikes.

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 10:35:50 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:53:18 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Do you take the word of the Internet for the value of a home for sale?
YES!!!!!!!! I use the internet to determine the value of houses in my neighborhood and city. I use the internet to look up sales of houses in my neighborhood on the county property tax assessor website. It shows all past sales so is a very real FACT of what houses sell for in my neighborhood. I use Zillow and other online tools to look up what houses are being sold for in my neighborhood by realtors. I then look at the descriptions and pictures from these various ONLINE sites and determine how my house fits in. But for the most part these ONLINE sources give a range or target for pricing in my neighborhood. I know from these ONLINE sources that trying to sell my house for $1 million would be out of range. And trying to sell my house for $100k would also be out of range. I also read internet stories telling how mortgage rates have been falling and making it easier, cheaper to buy houses.. And more internet stories about how the real estate market has been going up and up and up for years all across the country. DANGED INTERNET!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, then I'm glad that there are people like you around when I get around to moving out of this dump of a state and to someplace bright red.

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip
I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA
In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants
disc brakes whether it makes sense or not.

Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers
because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that
it adds.

Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value,
though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders.

Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining
reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have
unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth.
I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:31 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 10:35:50 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:53:18 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Do you take the word of the Internet for the value of a home for sale?
YES!!!!!!!! I use the internet to determine the value of houses in my neighborhood and city. I use the internet to look up sales of houses in my neighborhood on the county property tax assessor website. It shows all past sales so is a very real FACT of what houses sell for in my neighborhood. I use Zillow and other online tools to look up what houses are being sold for in my neighborhood by realtors. I then look at the descriptions and pictures from these various ONLINE sites and determine how my house fits in. But for the most part these ONLINE sources give a range or target for pricing in my neighborhood. I know from these ONLINE sources that trying to sell my house for $1 million would be out of range. And trying to sell my house for $100k would also be out of range. I also read internet stories telling how mortgage rates have been falling and making it easier, cheaper to buy houses. And more internet stories about how the real estate market has been going up and up and up for
years all across the country. DANGED INTERNET!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, then I'm glad that there are people like you around when I get around to moving out of this dump of a state and to someplace bright red.

Gee Tommy you are 70-something years old and it's taken you all this
time to realize that California really is "the land of the fruits and
the nuts"?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip
I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA
In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants
disc brakes whether it makes sense or not.

Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers
because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that
it adds.

Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value,
though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders.

Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining
reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have
unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth.
I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles.

And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet
solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know
about bicycles?
--
Cheers,

John B.