Why do racers stick out knee?

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: Is that really why? That surprises me; sticking
out a knee like that is
going to do bad things for aerodynamics, but then that might not be such a
bad thing in a corner anyway
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Racing motorcycles have "tons" of power, so a rider is very unlikely to be
using full throttle in a turn when he is leaned over. The slight additional
drag of a protruding knee is going to go unnoticed. You are thinking like a
bicyclist: every bit of drag, every gram of weight and every inch-oz of
torque has to be reckoned in.

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: Is that really why? That surprises me;
sticking out a knee like that is
going to do bad things for aerodynamics, but then that might not be such
a bad thing in a corner anyway
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Racing motorcycles have "tons" of power, so a rider is very unlikely to be
using full throttle in a turn when he is leaned over. The slight
additional drag of a protruding knee is going to go unnoticed. You are
thinking like a bicyclist: every bit of drag, every gram of weight and
every inch-oz of torque has to be reckoned in.

I think history will show that motorcyclists are thinking increasingly like
bicyclists, in terms of trying to shave not just kilos but grams.

But aside from that, what's *wrong* with thinking like a bicyclist? :-)

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Bill Sornson" writes:

Simon Lewis wrote:
"rms" writes:

Why do the Tour De France riders stick out their knee on a curve
during fast descents?

They're "weighting" the inside to help make the turn. If they
squeezed their knees together or weighted the /outside/ knee, then
they'd have to lean the bike so much it would almost certainly
slide out.

A certain infamous leaner's replies in this thread make absolutely
no sense. No idea why he'd say it's like putting a foot down; the
pointed knee gets the turn done faster, not slower.

^ This. Why did it take 7 replies in this thread to state the
obvious?

rms

What is "obvious"? If someone asks a question I would suggest the
answer is not "obvious".

The OP's grandson asked a simple question. The answer is equally simple.

Bill "obviously" S.

And that is?

Simon Lewis wrote:
"Bill Sornson" writes:

Simon Lewis wrote:
"rms" writes:

Why do the Tour De France riders stick out their knee on a curve
during fast descents?

They're "weighting" the inside to help make the turn. If they
squeezed their knees together or weighted the /outside/ knee, then
they'd have to lean the bike so much it would almost certainly
slide out.

A certain infamous leaner's replies in this thread make absolutely
no sense. No idea why he'd say it's like putting a foot down; the
pointed knee gets the turn done faster, not slower.

^ This. Why did it take 7 replies in this thread to state the
obvious?

rms

What is "obvious"? If someone asks a question I would suggest the
answer is not "obvious".

The OP's grandson asked a simple question. The answer is equally
simple.

Bill "obviously" S.

And that is?

Quickly gleaned from reading the thread...obviously.

"Bill Sornson" writes:

Simon Lewis wrote:
"Bill Sornson" writes:

Simon Lewis wrote:
"rms" writes:

Why do the Tour De France riders stick out their knee on a curve
during fast descents?

They're "weighting" the inside to help make the turn. If they
squeezed their knees together or weighted the /outside/ knee, then
they'd have to lean the bike so much it would almost certainly
slide out.

A certain infamous leaner's replies in this thread make absolutely
no sense. No idea why he'd say it's like putting a foot down; the
pointed knee gets the turn done faster, not slower.

^ This. Why did it take 7 replies in this thread to state the
obvious?

rms

What is "obvious"? If someone asks a question I would suggest the
answer is not "obvious".

The OP's grandson asked a simple question. The answer is equally
simple.

Bill "obviously" S.

And that is?

Quickly gleaned from reading the thread...obviously.

And that one is?

"Simon Lewis" wrote in message
...
"Bill Sornson" writes:

Simon Lewis wrote:
"Bill Sornson" writes:

Simon Lewis wrote:
"rms" writes:

Why do the Tour De France riders stick out their knee on a curve
during fast descents?

They're "weighting" the inside to help make the turn. If they
squeezed their knees together or weighted the /outside/ knee, then
they'd have to lean the bike so much it would almost certainly
slide out.

A certain infamous leaner's replies in this thread make absolutely
no sense. No idea why he'd say it's like putting a foot down; the
pointed knee gets the turn done faster, not slower.

^ This. Why did it take 7 replies in this thread to state the
obvious?

rms

What is "obvious"? If someone asks a question I would suggest the
answer is not "obvious".

The OP's grandson asked a simple question. The answer is equally
simple.

Bill "obviously" S.

And that is?

Quickly gleaned from reading the thread...obviously.

And that one is?

When you lean your weight to the inside of the turn the bicycle
responds by remaining more upright, a useful way of negotiating
narrow twisty trails faster. Hanging over the side can keep the bike
surprisingly upright. I didn't realize road bikers did it also.

JP

"JP" writes:

"Simon Lewis" wrote in message
...
"Bill Sornson" writes:

Simon Lewis wrote:
"Bill Sornson" writes:

Simon Lewis wrote:
"rms" writes:

Why do the Tour De France riders stick out their knee on a curve
during fast descents?

They're "weighting" the inside to help make the turn. If they
squeezed their knees together or weighted the /outside/ knee, then
they'd have to lean the bike so much it would almost certainly
slide out.

A certain infamous leaner's replies in this thread make absolutely
no sense. No idea why he'd say it's like putting a foot down; the
pointed knee gets the turn done faster, not slower.

^ This. Why did it take 7 replies in this thread to state the
obvious?

rms

What is "obvious"? If someone asks a question I would suggest the
answer is not "obvious".

The OP's grandson asked a simple question. The answer is equally
simple.

Bill "obviously" S.

And that is?

Quickly gleaned from reading the thread...obviously.

And that one is?

When you lean your weight to the inside of the turn the bicycle
responds by remaining more upright, a useful way of negotiating
narrow twisty trails faster. Hanging over the side can keep the bike
surprisingly upright. I didn't realize road bikers did it also.

JP

So Jobst Brandt is full of ****?

"JP" wrote: When you lean your weight to the inside of the turn the bicycle
responds by remaining more upright, a useful way of negotiating
narrow twisty trails faster. Hanging over the side can keep the bike
surprisingly upright. I didn't realize road bikers did it also.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A typical rider weighs about 15x as much as his bicycle. A typical
motorcyclist weights less than his machine. After you think about it, it
will no longer be surprising. Trials riders are particularly adept at this.
Trials motorcycles are built with very small tanks, just so the rider has
more freedom to move his weight around.

I believe that a motorcycle that is more vertical, with the rider leaning
his body weight into the turn, is more stable in case the wheels begin to
slide--IOW, less likely to low side the rider. (I can't defend this belief,
but that's how it feels to me.) Anyone?

In article ,
wrote:

Angus Cameron wrote:

Question from my grandson:

Why do the Tour De France riders stick out their knee on a curve
during fast descents?

This is a typical "knee jerk" response to the fear of falling and not
having a "dirt track" foot out to catch the rider. It's a placebo and
a sign of shaky cornering ability even on dry pavement. I didn't see
anyone take curves fast enough to get a significant lean angle.
Bicycle races are not won on descending ability unless the stage ends
at the bottom of a steep hill, and I saw no steep descents in this
tour.

snip

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_wEG2RNMJc

Cancellara downhilling to get back on during Stage 7 after his bike
change. This is a 2:25 excerpt from the 7+ minute video that has since
been pulled from YouTube due to ASO copyright claims. It omits a great
deal of the higher speed open road cornering (just a quick glimpse at
the end), but still does show him projecting his knee, as well as
weight shifting. as discussed in other posts regarding motorcycle
cornering.

View while you can; no telling when this one might disappear too.

Dan

Simon Lewis wrote:
"JP" writes:

"Simon Lewis" wrote in message
...
"Bill Sornson" writes:

Simon Lewis wrote:
"Bill Sornson" writes:

Simon Lewis wrote:
"rms" writes:

Why do the Tour De France riders stick out their knee on a
curve during fast descents?

They're "weighting" the inside to help make the turn. If they
squeezed their knees together or weighted the /outside/ knee,
then they'd have to lean the bike so much it would almost
certainly slide out.

A certain infamous leaner's replies in this thread make
absolutely no sense. No idea why he'd say it's like putting a
foot down; the pointed knee gets the turn done faster, not
slower.

^ This. Why did it take 7 replies in this thread to state
the obvious?

rms

What is "obvious"? If someone asks a question I would suggest
the answer is not "obvious".

The OP's grandson asked a simple question. The answer is equally
simple.

Bill "obviously" S.

And that is?

Quickly gleaned from reading the thread...obviously.

And that one is?

When you lean your weight to the inside of the turn the bicycle
responds by remaining more upright, a useful way of negotiating
narrow twisty trails faster. Hanging over the side can keep the bike
surprisingly upright. I didn't realize road bikers did it also.

JP

So Jobst Brandt is full of ****?

The hell you say!