Ed Dolan & Melanie

wrote in message
...
On Mar 17, 7:02 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
If you want me to know anything about this Adorno, then forget about links
and provided complete information. God, just how stupid can you get!
[...]

Just for clarification, Adorno was a German philosopher (his father
was Jewish) and one of the founder of the Frankfurt School. He was
what you could refer to as a neo-marxist, and a strong critic of
Nazism. He escape Nazism and moved the US. He was classically trained
lover of high culture and a critic of popular culture which he
considered boring, repetitive and reproductive of capitalism.

One of the articles that he wrote is called "Perennial Fashion, Jazz"
In which he argues that Jazz is an example of the repetitive, boring
and reproductive mode of capitalist culture. In his article he claims
that Jazz consists of endless syncopating rhythm. Instead he embraced
classical music.

While I like Adorno very much, I totally disagree with his view on
Jazz. It reflected his lack of exposure to it and, hence, his
ignorance. Yet, Adorno is considered one of the great thinkers of the
20th century. Your statement about Jazz was very similar to Adorno's.

Well, Hells Bells, Andres Muro, many thanks for furnishing the above
information - and no thanks to Andre Jute for not furnishing anything at
all except a lot of blather about nothing.

As you might suspect I very much agree with Adorno about jazz. Stravinsky
and most other classical music composers also found jazz not to their
liking. Trust me on this, Adorno was not ignorant anymore than I am or
Stravinsky was. Those of us who love classical music simply can't stand
jazz.

On the other hand, even though jazz is anathema to me. I recognize that it
is not totally beyond the pale. Most of it strikes me as theme and
variations which is one of my favorite musical forms. Also, the
instrumentation is always interesting. It is far from being the lowest form
of music. I think it derives essentially from the American Negro. It is no
doubt an amalgam of various ethnic musics coming together in America at the
turn of the last century.

Oddly enough I can listen to Dixieland jazz and ragtime (Joplin) and enjoy
both. The Stan Kenton big band style of music is not all bad either. But can
any of these genres even begin to compare with Beethoven? I think not!

I guess if I wanted a politically correct view of jazz, I would put it
before Tom Sherman. He is always with the zeitgeist, no matter where the
zeitgeist is at (except when it comes to Bach and Handel of course).

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On 3/17/2011 10:03 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
I guess if I wanted a politically correct view of jazz, I would put it
before Tom Sherman. He is always with the zeitgeist, no matter where the
zeitgeist is at

Ed must have me confused with someone else.

(except when it comes to Bach and Handel of course).

Make a list of the 5 greatest musical geniuses, and both J.S. Bach and
G.F. Handel *have* to be on any legitimate list.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

wrote in message
...
On Mar 17, 5:46 pm, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
[...]
It appears I have made a dreadful mistake. All I saw was the "Andre" and
assumed it was from Ireland, which immediately got my dander up. We Irish
are all fighting Irish as is well known.

Let's blame it all on too much Rhine Wine! How else do we oldsters get any
pleasure these days when Obama and the liberal Dems are bankrupting the
country?
[...]

Ed:

Andre and moi are two very different people. My name is Andres, with
and "s" at the end, and I hail from Argentina. It is in South America
and not in South Africa. In fact, Andre and I disagree on pretty much
everything that there is to disagree.

I do not disagree with André Jute about everything by any means, but we have
conflicting personalities.

Going back to music. Music is a language. As with all languages, they
are often meaningless outside of context, although some great art
transcends context. but, even when greatness transcends context, not
all ears may be susceptible to the greatness of all music. sometimes,
some ears don't have the sensibility to grasp some forms of
greatness.

It is all about context (culture) for sure. I couldn't agree with you more.

I am a music ignoramous and can't claim to appreciate all the
greatness of it. However, some manifestations of the Kantian Genie
have reached my soul. I can say that I have Schopenhauerian moments
listening to Flamenco. The fact that you haven't, does not invalidate
the greatness of it. Only the ignorami put down what they fail to
understand. Both you and Adorno are guilty of that.

Flamenco appears to be very Spanish. It is ethnic music raised to an art
form. I think it is where folk art and fine art meet, but if you are not
Spanish, it is almost impossible to take more than a few minutes of it. It
is not really ignorance so much as it is different cultures. Most Spanish
music only comes to the rest of us through foreign composers such as Ravel
or classical Spanish composers such as Albeniz and such artists as Segovia.

Try to see if you can like Arabic music or Chinese music. Try as you might,
it is impossible. It takes a lifetime to absorb another musical culture.
Most of us will never bother even trying.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Tºm ShermªnT °_°" " wrote in
message ...
On 3/17/2011 10:03 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
I guess if I wanted a politically correct view of jazz, I would put it
before Tom Sherman. He is always with the zeitgeist, no matter where the
zeitgeist is at

Ed must have me confused with someone else.

(except when it comes to Bach and Handel of course).

Make a list of the 5 greatest musical geniuses, and both J.S. Bach and
G.F. Handel *have* to be on any legitimate list.

Only to musicologists, not to the general concert going public. Program an
all Bach or an all Handel concert and no one will come. Only the musicians
will be happy!

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 3/17/2011 9:51 PM, James Steward wrote:
[...]
Meanwhile, you should do something about your usenet mail software and
stop telling people Google made it happen.

What's the word?


I cannot say, suffice to say 'tis one of the words the Knights of Ni
cannot say.

Ni!

JS.

"Tºm ShermªnT °_°" " wrote in
message ...
On 3/17/2011 8:02 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
Tom Sherman, an arch enemy of mine, is at least honorable which is more
than
I can say for you.[...]

Actually, I am Ed's best friend.

Friends are for teenagers who are trying to discover who they are. Are you a
teenager?

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Tºm ShermªnT °_°" " wrote in
message ...
On 3/17/2011 6:27 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
You were the one who brought up his name. If you want us to know about
him,
then provide what you want us to know - you g.d. asshole! I would never
bother look up any reference (link) of yours, so give it complete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_W._Adorno

After perusing this article I am reminded all over again why I abhor
scholarship, most especially German scholarship. It is enough to know that
he aligned hinself with the "new music" (Webern, Schoenberg) to leave him
be. However I liked his evaluation of jazz).
[...]

No, the Wikipedia article on Jute has not been deleted. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/******.

I once used the term onanist on these newsgroups and no one knew what I was
talking about.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Tºm Shermªn™ °_°" " wrote in
message ...
[...]
There is the 95% rule - 95% of all art, music, literature, etc is crap.
However, what is available from the older periods is generally much
superior, since the dross has been rightly forgotten, discarded and lost,
while the cream was preserved. Contemporary culture has had no such
filtering, so most of what we see, hear and read is garbage.

There were thousands of central European baroque composers, but only a
handful consistently produced works of high quality, and even fewer
produced works of a quality that will never be surpassed. The names of
most of those incomparable works start with "BWV".

What you say above is true of all classical music except for the most recent
of course which has not yet had adequate filtering. Even so, time marches on
and what was once considered excellent gradually falls into disuse. It
becomes antiquated and fit only for museums. It is time for you to move on
from Bach. Why not investigate Prokofiev for instance. He is somewhat more
recent, although beginning to age too (like all of us).

By the way, I believe when it comes to movies that 99% is crap.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

On 3/17/2011 10:32 PM, James Steward wrote:
Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 3/17/2011 9:51 PM, James Steward wrote:
[...]
Meanwhile, you should do something about your usenet mail software and
stop telling people Google made it happen.

What's the word?


Thunderbird!


I cannot say, suffice to say 'tis one of the words the Knights of Ni
cannot say.

Ni!

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 3/17/2011 10:30 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
Only to musicologists, not to the general concert going public. Program an
all Bach or an all Handel concert and no one will come. Only the musicians
will be happy![...]

Only of the very best evenings of my life was an all Bach and Handel
concert by Trevor Pinnock and The English Consort.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.