Daytime running lights seem more common.....

On 10/7/2020 8:50 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 10/7/2020 8:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/7/2020 4:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/7/2020 12:34 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/6/2020 3:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 10:34:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/6/2020 12:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:55:14 UTC+2 schreef
Frank Krygowski:
On 10/6/2020 11:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:26:27 UTC+2 schreef
Frank Krygowski:
On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank
Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob
prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that
riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more
numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last
year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now
it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some
days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing
anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have
become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the
bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing,
every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its
headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights,
and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A
guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in
bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the
companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real
good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist
more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist
is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice
him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers
no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly
at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being
seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away
and moving just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes
over 15 seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a
long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on
the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is
actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message
or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26%
of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while
driving.
Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided
by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour
divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, I love those units...
Yes, we have barnyards full of them. Hogsheads and
barrels and chains
and furlongs and candles...

I was noted for spending quite a bit of time teaching
about unit
conversions within calculations. I imagine that's a
much shorter topic
in your schools.

Well we had to learn what kilo, milli, micro, deci,
hecto, pico, nano etc means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_prefix

Don't underestimate that ;-)

Lou



Sometimes a few magnitudes make no difference at all:

https://nypost.com/2020/10/05/biden-...m-coronavirus/



But when The President says, 'Nice day', there's a crowd
lined up to call him a liar because it rained somewhere.

Or they're lined up because Trump lies a lot. I mean
really, putting aside partisanship -- which I CAN do when
it comes to taking Trump out of context or giving weight
to his ill-advised riffing or just being wrong -- Trump
just lies a lot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veraci...y_Donald_Trump

Demonstrable, provable lies. The guy is pathological,
which I totally expect from a NY real estate developer.
Lying is the first language of these guys. Biden may lie,
but the alt-right media goes after him for just bumbling
or being wrong. If he actually lies, go get him. Liars
should be called out.

Even if you like Trump's policies (who doesn't like a tax
break and hate immigrants), at some point, you just have
to say enough is enough. I've dumped high paying clients
because I couldn't take the lying and drama. I'll take a
revenue hit to get some peace and quiet. I'd vote for a
normal Republican if there were one left, say Eisenhower.
I'd even vote for Hoover, who was actually a great
humanitarian, although a little late with stimulus when it
came to the great depression.

+1.

I'm intensely disappointed that so many Republicans have
bludgeoned their consciences into submission to defend and
even join his lying hypocrisy.



much like picking up girls in bars, one chooses the least
objectionable of what's on offer at the moment.

Well, that wasn't how I approached that.



It's apt because you have limited selection at a specific
point in time.

Only one of the two candidates at the top of the major
parties will win.


True, but unlike elections, in a bar there’s always the possibility of
choosing “None of the above.�


Speaking as a man who voted Libertarian repeatedly, what's
the point?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wed, 07 Oct 2020 15:50:42 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Lou Holtman writes:

Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 23:26:53 UTC+2 schreef Radey Shouman:
Ralph Barone writes:

Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:26:27 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights, and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away and moving just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes over 15 seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26% of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while driving.
Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, I love those units...

Lou


There’s still a 3.6 conversion factor if you do it in metric.
France did try to implement decimal time, shortly after the revolution.
For some reason it never took off, and we've been stuck on base 60 since
Sumer was a leading capital.


If they proposed it today I would be in favor. Rode 86 km in
2hr45min36sec. Average speed on my RPN calculator:
2 enter 45 enter 60 / + 36 enter 60 / 60 /+ 1/x 86 * tada 31.16 km/hr..... pfff.
It could have been 86 enter 2.76 /

I have a Neandertal bike computer, which shows decimal miles (miles and
feet or yards or rods would be insane), and, naturally, sexagesimal elapsed
time. Sometimes there is something in my head that wants time to roll
over at 99, or miles at 59.

On the other hand, even converting 24 hour time to 12 hour time requires
some mental effort -- I know exactly what 8:00pm is, but 20:00 requires,
for me, a bit of thought. Converting to decimal hours, much less
decimal months, would be a struggle.

I believe that the Military started using the 24 hour time as it
avoided the confusion between After Meridiem and Pre Meridiem... or
was it anti meridian and post meridian.. or... Oh what the Hell! it's
20 hundred hours.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 08 Oct 2020 01:50:08 +0000, Ralph Barone wrote:

AMuzi wrote:
On 10/7/2020 8:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/7/2020 4:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/7/2020 12:34 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'm intensely disappointed that so many Republicans have bludgeoned
their consciences into submission to defend and even join his lying
hypocrisy.



much like picking up girls in bars, one chooses the least
objectionable of what's on offer at the moment.

Well, that wasn't how I approached that.



It's apt because you have limited selection at a specific point in
time.

Only one of the two candidates at the top of the major parties will
win.


True, but unlike elections, in a bar there’s always the possibility of
choosing “None of the above.�

Err, doesn't your flow chart in this instance contain
"if none appeal, have another beer"?

On Wed, 07 Oct 2020 15:03:39 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 10/7/2020 12:34 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/6/2020 3:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 10:34:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/6/2020 12:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:55:14 UTC+2 schreef
Frank Krygowski:
On 10/6/2020 11:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:26:27 UTC+2 schreef
Frank Krygowski:
On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob
prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that
riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more
numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last
year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now
it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing
anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have
become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the
bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing,
every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its
headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights,
and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A
guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in
bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the
companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real
good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist
more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist
is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice
him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers
no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly
at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being
seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away
and moving just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes
over 15 seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a
long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on
the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is
actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message
or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26%
of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while driving.
Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided
by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour
divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, I love those units...
Yes, we have barnyards full of them. Hogsheads and
barrels and chains
and furlongs and candles...

I was noted for spending quite a bit of time teaching
about unit
conversions within calculations. I imagine that's a
much shorter topic
in your schools.

Well we had to learn what kilo, milli, micro, deci,
hecto, pico, nano etc means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_prefix

Don't underestimate that ;-)

Lou



Sometimes a few magnitudes make no difference at all:

https://nypost.com/2020/10/05/biden-...m-coronavirus/


But when The President says, 'Nice day', there's a crowd
lined up to call him a liar because it rained somewhere.

Or they're lined up because Trump lies a lot. I mean
really, putting aside partisanship -- which I CAN do when
it comes to taking Trump out of context or giving weight
to his ill-advised riffing or just being wrong -- Trump
just lies a lot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veraci...y_Donald_Trump
Demonstrable, provable lies. The guy is pathological,
which I totally expect from a NY real estate developer.
Lying is the first language of these guys. Biden may lie,
but the alt-right media goes after him for just bumbling
or being wrong. If he actually lies, go get him. Liars
should be called out.

Even if you like Trump's policies (who doesn't like a tax
break and hate immigrants), at some point, you just have
to say enough is enough. I've dumped high paying clients
because I couldn't take the lying and drama. I'll take a
revenue hit to get some peace and quiet. I'd vote for a
normal Republican if there were one left, say Eisenhower.
I'd even vote for Hoover, who was actually a great
humanitarian, although a little late with stimulus when it
came to the great depression.

+1.

I'm intensely disappointed that so many Republicans have
bludgeoned their consciences into submission to defend and
even join his lying hypocrisy.



much like picking up girls in bars, one chooses the least
objectionable of what's on offer at the moment.

Or maybe one says, "They are all dogs here, I'll just go to another
bar"?
--
Cheers,

John B.

AMuzi wrote:
On 10/7/2020 8:50 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 10/7/2020 8:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/7/2020 4:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/7/2020 12:34 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/6/2020 3:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 10:34:23 AM UTC-7, AMuzi
wrote:
On 10/6/2020 12:06 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:55:14 UTC+2 schreef
Frank Krygowski:
On 10/6/2020 11:37 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:26:27 UTC+2 schreef
Frank Krygowski:
On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank
Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob
prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that
riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more
numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last
year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now
it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some
days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing
anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have
become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the
bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing,
every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its
headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights,
and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A
guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in
bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the
companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real
good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist
more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist
is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice
him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers
no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly
at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being
seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away
and moving just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes
over 15 seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a
long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on
the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is
actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message
or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26%
of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while
driving.
Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided
by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour
divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, I love those units...
Yes, we have barnyards full of them. Hogsheads and
barrels and chains
and furlongs and candles...

I was noted for spending quite a bit of time teaching
about unit
conversions within calculations. I imagine that's a
much shorter topic
in your schools.

Well we had to learn what kilo, milli, micro, deci,
hecto, pico, nano etc means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_prefix

Don't underestimate that ;-)

Lou



Sometimes a few magnitudes make no difference at all:

https://nypost.com/2020/10/05/biden-...m-coronavirus/



But when The President says, 'Nice day', there's a crowd
lined up to call him a liar because it rained somewhere.

Or they're lined up because Trump lies a lot. I mean
really, putting aside partisanship -- which I CAN do when
it comes to taking Trump out of context or giving weight
to his ill-advised riffing or just being wrong -- Trump
just lies a lot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veraci...y_Donald_Trump

Demonstrable, provable lies. The guy is pathological,
which I totally expect from a NY real estate developer.
Lying is the first language of these guys. Biden may lie,
but the alt-right media goes after him for just bumbling
or being wrong. If he actually lies, go get him. Liars
should be called out.

Even if you like Trump's policies (who doesn't like a tax
break and hate immigrants), at some point, you just have
to say enough is enough. I've dumped high paying clients
because I couldn't take the lying and drama. I'll take a
revenue hit to get some peace and quiet. I'd vote for a
normal Republican if there were one left, say Eisenhower.
I'd even vote for Hoover, who was actually a great
humanitarian, although a little late with stimulus when it
came to the great depression.

+1.

I'm intensely disappointed that so many Republicans have
bludgeoned their consciences into submission to defend and
even join his lying hypocrisy.



much like picking up girls in bars, one chooses the least
objectionable of what's on offer at the moment.

Well, that wasn't how I approached that.



It's apt because you have limited selection at a specific
point in time.

Only one of the two candidates at the top of the major
parties will win.


True, but unlike elections, in a bar there’s always the possibility of
choosing “None of the above.�


Speaking as a man who voted Libertarian repeatedly, what's
the point?


In an election there’s no avoiding the most popular worst choice, but in a
bar, you CAN escape with your pride.

news18 wrote:
On Thu, 08 Oct 2020 01:50:08 +0000, Ralph Barone wrote:

AMuzi wrote:
On 10/7/2020 8:13 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/7/2020 4:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/7/2020 12:34 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'm intensely disappointed that so many Republicans have bludgeoned
their consciences into submission to defend and even join his lying
hypocrisy.



much like picking up girls in bars, one chooses the least
objectionable of what's on offer at the moment.

Well, that wasn't how I approached that.



It's apt because you have limited selection at a specific point in
time.

Only one of the two candidates at the top of the major parties will
win.


True, but unlike elections, in a bar there’s always the possibility of
choosing “None of the above.�

Err, doesn't your flow chart in this instance contain
"if none appeal, have another beer"?



A reasonable choice if one could remain permanently soused, otherwise a bit
iffy.

On Wed, 07 Oct 2020 16:30:59 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 10/7/2020 4:21 PM, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 07 Oct 2020 16:06:30 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote:

Frank Krygowski writes:

On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 5:26:53 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:

France did try to implement decimal time, shortly after the
revolution. For some reason it never took off, and we've been stuck on
base 60 since Sumer was a leading capital.

That's a point that's been of interest to me. I decided the effort
might have failed just because units of time are probably the units
most used in daily life and communication. And I may be wrong, but I
suspect that the base 60 system was default throughout most of the
civilized world, unlike (say) units of distance.
So changing units of time may have been just too difficult to pull off.

Perhaps so. Every country used to have its own system of weights and
measures, and frequently a different set for each type of commerce.
Robin Hood had to specify cloth yard shafts because there were other
yards.

But weights and measures were required long before most people
mechanically measured time. Back before clocks and watches were
widespread an hour usually changed in length throughout the year.
Minutes and second minutes were as far from everyday measure as
milliseconds are now. It may be that it was actually the lateness of
the adoption of time measure among hoi polloi that made it more standard
worldwide.

Blame it on the Railways, who introduced timetables to improve safety and
thus service.

On the other hand, the twelve month year and the seven day week both do
seem to have spread worldwide quite early,

Conquest and the expansion of empires imposing the conqueror's culture

and don't need any special
equipment to appreciate. Neither succumbed to the revolution.

Early life/culture revolved around the seasons and the moon. As people
moved off the land and into cities, the opportunity/need for time
regimentation improved. Now we can globally synchronise "time" to
thousandths of a second with very little effort (okay it takes, computer
and internet connection/mobile phone).

I don't know if any f this has improved bicycling all that much.



Quite formidable accurate clocks predate railroads by a
century or more.

A clock accurate enough for navigation was made in 1759 used by
Captain Cook in his voyages after 1772.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 7 Oct 2020 21:26:42 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/7/2020 8:46 PM, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 07 Oct 2020 16:30:59 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 10/7/2020 4:21 PM, news18 wrote:
On Wed, 07 Oct 2020 16:06:30 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote:

Frank Krygowski writes:

On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 5:26:53 PM UTC-4, Radey Shouman wrote:

France did try to implement decimal time, shortly after the
revolution. For some reason it never took off, and we've been stuck
on base 60 since Sumer was a leading capital.

That's a point that's been of interest to me. I decided the effort
might have failed just because units of time are probably the units
most used in daily life and communication. And I may be wrong, but I
suspect that the base 60 system was default throughout most of the
civilized world, unlike (say) units of distance.
So changing units of time may have been just too difficult to pull
off.

Perhaps so. Every country used to have its own system of weights and
measures, and frequently a different set for each type of commerce.
Robin Hood had to specify cloth yard shafts because there were other
yards.

But weights and measures were required long before most people
mechanically measured time. Back before clocks and watches were
widespread an hour usually changed in length throughout the year.
Minutes and second minutes were as far from everyday measure as
milliseconds are now. It may be that it was actually the lateness of
the adoption of time measure among hoi polloi that made it more
standard worldwide.

Blame it on the Railways, who introduced timetables to improve safety
and thus service.

On the other hand, the twelve month year and the seven day week both
do seem to have spread worldwide quite early,

Conquest and the expansion of empires imposing the conqueror's culture

and don't need any special
equipment to appreciate. Neither succumbed to the revolution.

Early life/culture revolved around the seasons and the moon. As people
moved off the land and into cities, the opportunity/need for time
regimentation improved. Now we can globally synchronise "time" to
thousandths of a second with very little effort (okay it takes,
computer and internet connection/mobile phone).

I don't know if any f this has improved bicycling all that much.







Quite formidable accurate clocks predate railroads by a century or more.

The trick is for what purpose did they exist.
When I was born, atomic clocks existed but were very large, very
expensive and required lots of support. Now, many people can buy one over
the counter and probably has the equivalent in their pocket.

Th spread of the railways basically required people to acquire or have
access to accurate clocks. As in "trade" over a wider area basically
required standardised length measurement, if your "trade" depending on
certain timely transport options, e.g the railway, then you needed to
synchronise your time to the wider world.

Time synchronisation didn't all flow from the railways, but they did have
a major impact with other technology that flowed along with them, like
the telegraph.


brou My understanding is the for many people, their first clock was the
town clock. forceed people

On all the above: I happen to have developed an interest in sundials. A
nearly complete (and quite complicated, quite accurate) one is on the
ceiling above me right now. And I've found some local-ish sundials that
I need to turn into the national registry of dials.

So: The first "town clocks," so to speak, were almost certainly
sundials. I've seen drawings of men in the 1600s or 1700s standing
before the town sundial, to synchronize their doubtlessly inaccurate
early watches and clocks with local noon.

And I've read remarks from rural areas, where the people were skeptical
of mechanical clocks because they "didn't tell the right time." That
"right time" was probably sundial time. (The sun runs ahead or behind
local mean time, depending on the time of year. This is shown
graphically by an analemma. My ceiling has 11 analemmas painted on it.)
For a long while after mechanical clocks were invented, sundial time was
regarded as correct, mechanical time as imperfect.

Syncing to local noon was perfectly fine until we could quickly ride the
rails across a lot of a modern "time zone." So yes, it was a railroader
who pushed hard for standard time zones.

But back at the beginning, it was navigators and their governments who
pushed for accurate mechanical clocks. Latitude is easy. Longitude
requires knowing the time.

In a rural society "clock time" is almost meaningless. There is no
sense in getting out there to work before daylight- you can't see to
plow - and it's futile to try to work after dark - the chickens roost
as soon as it is dark and can you imagine chopping wood in the dark.

So, likely clocks, of whatever nature, became popular only once
society had moved from the farm into town.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. writes:

On Wed, 07 Oct 2020 15:50:42 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Lou Holtman writes:

Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 23:26:53 UTC+2 schreef Radey Shouman:
Ralph Barone writes:

Lou Holtman wrote:
Op dinsdag 6 oktober 2020 om 17:26:27 UTC+2 schreef Frank Krygowski:
On 10/5/2020 11:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 21:34:03 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 10/5/2020 4:18 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 5 Oct 2020 13:37:19 -0400,
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 10/4/2020 10:37 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 21:45:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On 10/4/2020 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 4 Oct 2020 23:56:08 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

In the past year or so it seems to me that riders using
daytime running lights are considerably more numerous. Has
anybody else noticed the same thing? Last year at this time
I think maybe one bike in ten had them, now it seems close
to one in three or four, at least on some days.

Over here I don't think I've ever seeing anyone with a white
front light but red "tail lights" seem to have become the
norm.

But I do believe that anything that makes the bicyclist more
noticeable would be a good thing.

Yes, I've noticed more DRLs. For one thing, every e-bike I
encounter seems to be running with its headlight on. But I
see a few roadies running daytime headlights, and more of
them running taillights.

But I disagree with John's final sentence. A guy running a
headlight when out on a lonely country road in bright
daylight? That's a "good thing" only for the companies
involved in the light sale. It does no real good for the
cyclist.

You missed the part about "makes the bicyclist more noticeable
would be a good thing"? Obviously if the cyclist is "more
noticeable" there must be those who would notice him/her/it.

Noticing a cyclist who is two blocks away confers no benefit.

Well, "two blocks" is covered pretty darn quickly at highway
speeds, so perhaps there is some benefit in being seen at greater
distance.

If the cyclist is two blocks (say, 1000 ft) away and moving
just 12 mph
in the same direction as a 55 mph car, it takes over 15
seconds for the
car to reach the cyclist. 15 seconds is quite a long time in driving.
Count it out to visualize it.

But, but...The discussion was about a white light on the front of a
bicycle so your figures are not correct, it is actually closer to 10
seconds and for someone talking, reading a message or texting, on a
phone that isn't a very long time. And... some 26% of traffic
accidents are a result of hand phone use while driving.
Better double check your math, John. 1000 ft divided by 43 miles per
hour (= closing speed) times 3600 seconds per hour divided by 5280 feet
per mile.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Ah, I love those units...

Lou


There’s still a 3.6 conversion factor if you do it in metric.
France did try to implement decimal time, shortly after the revolution.
For some reason it never took off, and we've been stuck on base 60 since
Sumer was a leading capital.


If they proposed it today I would be in favor. Rode 86 km in
2hr45min36sec. Average speed on my RPN calculator:
2 enter 45 enter 60 / + 36 enter 60 / 60 /+ 1/x 86 * tada 31.16
km/hr..... pfff.
It could have been 86 enter 2.76 /

I have a Neandertal bike computer, which shows decimal miles (miles and
feet or yards or rods would be insane), and, naturally, sexagesimal elapsed
time. Sometimes there is something in my head that wants time to roll
over at 99, or miles at 59.

On the other hand, even converting 24 hour time to 12 hour time requires
some mental effort -- I know exactly what 8:00pm is, but 20:00 requires,
for me, a bit of thought. Converting to decimal hours, much less
decimal months, would be a struggle.

I believe that the Military started using the 24 hour time as it
avoided the confusion between After Meridiem and Pre Meridiem... or
was it anti meridian and post meridian.. or... Oh what the Hell! it's
20 hundred hours.

I'm not saying it doesn't make perfect sense, just that I, personally,
am not used to it. Multiply that by a few hundred million and you have
quite a lot of inertia.

On 10/8/2020 1:22 AM, John B. wrote:


In a rural society "clock time" is almost meaningless. There is no
sense in getting out there to work before daylight- you can't see to
plow - and it's futile to try to work after dark - the chickens roost
as soon as it is dark and can you imagine chopping wood in the dark.

Probably true. And to continue the rambling: I've read that the "Harvest
Moon" was important in the old days because harvest work could continue
after sunset, by the light of a bright moon.

It is a bit amazing how well one can see in moonlight, at least in an
area with little light pollution. These days (at least in most of the
U.S.) few people ever experience their true night vision. It takes at
least 15 minutes for one's eyes to adapt to low light, and we tend to
scurry from one artificial light to another.

Bill Bryson has written that modern Americans have no concept of how
dark the world was before the early 1900s. And still, somehow, we thrived.

--
- Frank Krygowski