New frame or repair

I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be
repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder.

(I don't want to raise the question of steel vs
aluminium/carbon/titanium which I know most people have strong opinions
on. I'm happy with steel.)

Good points of my existing frame: -
Typical 'touring' geometry of the day - long chain stays and long offset
in the forks.
Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres
and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels.

Bad points: -
The bottom bracket threads are knackered. I have been using externally
threadless cartridge bottom brackets for a couple of years, but the only
ones I can get are low quality and they wear out (too much play) quickly.

My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same
problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots
into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the
diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then
re-threads the shell. It seemed to be a robust repair on my previous
frame to my untrained eye.

Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about
65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike,
but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer
(shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try
myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep
enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I
need.

If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done.
The total cost will be about gbp100.

New frame and forks: -
I can get an off the peg frame and forks (with plenty of clearance) for
between 250 and 500 gbp. These frames are built in columbus navichrom or
reynolds 631 or 853, varying in price depending on how expensive the
tubing is.

Since I don't know much about these tubes, if the advice stacks up in
favour of a new frame, my next question would be what tubing gives a
'531/columbus slx type' balance of cost, weight and strength? I don't
want to sacrifice durability in order to save a few hundred grammes.
Then again, I want a lightweight bike. I'm not that heavy - about 165
pounds, but like to ride my bike on rough roads occasionally and down
steps if the way is clear.

From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good
choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with
853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********.

So, should I repair the old one or buy a new one?

I have another question regarding 'aero' brake levers, but I'll put it
in a separate post since this one already feels too long.

Thanks in advance for your advice.
Tony

Tony Sweeney wrote:
I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be
repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder.

(I don't want to raise the question of steel vs
aluminium/carbon/titanium which I know most people have strong opinions
on. I'm happy with steel.)

Good points of my existing frame: -
Typical 'touring' geometry of the day - long chain stays and long offset
in the forks.
Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres
and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels.

Bad points: -
The bottom bracket threads are knackered. I have been using externally
threadless cartridge bottom brackets for a couple of years, but the only
ones I can get are low quality and they wear out (too much play) quickly.

My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same
problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots
into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the
diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then
re-threads the shell. It seemed to be a robust repair on my previous
frame to my untrained eye.

Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about
65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike,
but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer
(shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try
myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep
enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I
need.

If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done.
The total cost will be about gbp100.

New frame and forks: -
I can get an off the peg frame and forks (with plenty of clearance) for
between 250 and 500 gbp. These frames are built in columbus navichrom or
reynolds 631 or 853, varying in price depending on how expensive the
tubing is.

Since I don't know much about these tubes, if the advice stacks up in
favour of a new frame, my next question would be what tubing gives a
'531/columbus slx type' balance of cost, weight and strength? I don't
want to sacrifice durability in order to save a few hundred grammes.
Then again, I want a lightweight bike. I'm not that heavy - about 165
pounds, but like to ride my bike on rough roads occasionally and down
steps if the way is clear.

From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good
choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with
853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********.

So, should I repair the old one or buy a new one?

I have another question regarding 'aero' brake levers, but I'll put it
in a separate post since this one already feels too long.

Thanks in advance for your advice.
Tony

Well, this really depends on your total budget, and how much of your
older components you can transfer over to the "new" frame. If you get
a contemporary frame the component costs (threadless stem, handlebar,
brakes, wheels?) in themselves are not going to be cheap.

Regarding brake reach, if you require a drop of 60+ mm, I don't even
think campy drop bolts are going to help you on that one. Even if they
did, you're likely not going to be pleased with the results in
performance anyways.

I'm inclined to say just sell off your old bike and get a more
contemporary used bike as a replacement, if that works for you. Or
just get a new bike.

Tony Sweeney wrote:
I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be
repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder.

(I don't want to raise the question of steel vs
aluminium/carbon/titanium which I know most people have strong opinions
on. I'm happy with steel.)

Good points of my existing frame: -
Typical 'touring' geometry of the day - long chain stays and long offset
in the forks.
Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres
and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels.

Bad points: -
The bottom bracket threads are knackered. I have been using externally
threadless cartridge bottom brackets for a couple of years, but the only
ones I can get are low quality and they wear out (too much play) quickly.

My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same
problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots
into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the
diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then
re-threads the shell. It seemed to be a robust repair on my previous
frame to my untrained eye.

Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about
65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike,
but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer
(shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try
myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep
enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I
need.

If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done.
The total cost will be about gbp100.

New frame and forks: -
I can get an off the peg frame and forks (with plenty of clearance) for
between 250 and 500 gbp. These frames are built in columbus navichrom or
reynolds 631 or 853, varying in price depending on how expensive the
tubing is.

Since I don't know much about these tubes, if the advice stacks up in
favour of a new frame, my next question would be what tubing gives a
'531/columbus slx type' balance of cost, weight and strength? I don't
want to sacrifice durability in order to save a few hundred grammes.
Then again, I want a lightweight bike. I'm not that heavy - about 165
pounds, but like to ride my bike on rough roads occasionally and down
steps if the way is clear.

From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good
choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with
853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********.

So, should I repair the old one or buy a new one?

I have another question regarding 'aero' brake levers, but I'll put it
in a separate post since this one already feels too long.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Stronglight makes an excellent quality BB for just this purpose:

http://tinyurl.com/yd38rs

(The outside edges of the BB shell will need to be champhered to use
this BB. Your framebuilder contact should be able to do this.)


Tony

Tony Sweeney wrote:
I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be
repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder.

If it fits and feels good, and the fix is solid, repair and spray.
It'll look nice and fresh with the new paint.

Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about
65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike,
but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer
(shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try
myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep
enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I
need.

Tektro R556 stops great, but might not be as shiny as you like. 73mm
reach. I've got the shorter versions on both my road bikes. No
complaints. $60 in the US, and likely a smidge more if you're in the
UK.

http://www.tektro.com/02products/08521ag.php

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:53:01 +0000, Tony Sweeney wrote:

I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be
repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder.

I'd go for b (or, at least get a new frame somewhere). With these
problems:

Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres
and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels.

Too massive, since you need such long-reach brakes.

Bad points: -
The bottom bracket threads are knackered.

My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same
problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots
into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the
diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then
re-threads the shell.

Then you re-paint the frame?

Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about
65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike,
but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer
(shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try
myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep
enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I
need.

Well, debatable about existence and quality, but certainly there are
better solutions. These old Weinman's are a PITA to adjust compared to
modern brakes of any design.

If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done. The
total cost will be about gbp100.

Get powder-coat if you do this. Very durable finish, and looks great.

But you are going to spend for the bottom bracket repair, for possibly
non-existent brakes, plus paint, and end up with a bike that may not stop
all that well, weighs a couple pounds more than a new one, all for
roughly the cost of a new frame.

There are drop-bolts to get modern brakes to reach, but those interfere
with fenders and/or big tires.

My recommendation: Get a touring frame with the geometry you want and the
clearance you want for the tires and fenders. Get canti brakes (and, of
course, a frame with bosses) so clearance is not an issue and you don't
have to live with jerry-rigged brakes.

From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good
choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with
853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********.

Yeah. don't fret different tubing for this kind of frame. Get something
durable and reliable. Build is more important than alloy.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
_`\(,_ | Excellence.
(_)/ (_) |

In article ,
Tony Sweeney wrote:

I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be
repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder.

(I don't want to raise the question of steel vs
aluminium/carbon/titanium which I know most people have strong opinions
on. I'm happy with steel.)

Good points of my existing frame: -
Typical 'touring' geometry of the day - long chain stays and long offset
in the forks.
Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres
and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels.

Bad points: -
The bottom bracket threads are knackered. I have been using externally
threadless cartridge bottom brackets for a couple of years, but the only
ones I can get are low quality and they wear out (too much play) quickly.

My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same
problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots
into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the
diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then
re-threads the shell. It seemed to be a robust repair on my previous
frame to my untrained eye.

Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about
65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike,
but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer
(shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try
myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep
enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I
need.

If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done.
The total cost will be about gbp100.

New frame and forks: -
I can get an off the peg frame and forks (with plenty of clearance) for
between 250 and 500 gbp. These frames are built in columbus navichrom or
reynolds 631 or 853, varying in price depending on how expensive the
tubing is.

Since I don't know much about these tubes, if the advice stacks up in
favour of a new frame, my next question would be what tubing gives a
'531/columbus slx type' balance of cost, weight and strength? I don't
want to sacrifice durability in order to save a few hundred grammes.
Then again, I want a lightweight bike. I'm not that heavy - about 165
pounds, but like to ride my bike on rough roads occasionally and down
steps if the way is clear.

From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good
choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with
853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********.

So, should I repair the old one or buy a new one?

I have another question regarding 'aero' brake levers, but I'll put it
in a separate post since this one already feels too long.

Somebody is now making 70 mm dual caliper brakes. Yes,
here they are.
http://www.tektro.com/02products/08r365r356.php

Jobst had the bottom bracket thread redone by silver
soldering in new steel, then threading it.

New frames are good. Whether you get new or repair, you
need to _know_ that you and the frame builder share the
same vision. For instance, will your frame builder balk
at using tubes heavier than the very lightest?

Do you _want_ a new frame? If yes, then get it. That
old frame may be an worth repairing even with a new
frame. Make it a single speed, or an internal hub with
mud guards and chain cage.

--
Michael Press

I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be repaired
or buy a new frame from my local frame builder.

Reading through the subsequent text, I couldn't get a good feel for how many
miles you've put on your old bike, but when you're talking about reparing
something that old, you do have to keep in mind that something else might
possibly break as well. On old steel frames, the most-likely areas would be
the derailleur-side rear dropout (where it connects to the frame), or a
tear/crack across the seat tube, below the front derailleur, and starting on
the side opposite the chainrings. In general, I've seen high-quality steel
frames fail in those areas between 35-50k miles, although many will last
considerably longer, and some much shorter (if some guy's too happy with a
torch or doesn't bother aligning dropouts or rear axle width).

You might also look for evidence of corrosion. Definitely check your fork
thoroughly.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA

"Tony Sweeney" wrote in message
...
I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be repaired
or buy a new frame from my local frame builder.

(I don't want to raise the question of steel vs aluminium/carbon/titanium
which I know most people have strong opinions on. I'm happy with steel.)

Good points of my existing frame: -
Typical 'touring' geometry of the day - long chain stays and long offset
in the forks.
Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres and
mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels.

Bad points: -
The bottom bracket threads are knackered. I have been using externally
threadless cartridge bottom brackets for a couple of years, but the only
ones I can get are low quality and they wear out (too much play) quickly.

My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same
problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots
into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the
diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then
re-threads the shell. It seemed to be a robust repair on my previous frame
to my untrained eye.

Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about
65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike, but
would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer
(shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try
myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep
enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I
need.

If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done.
The total cost will be about gbp100.

New frame and forks: -
I can get an off the peg frame and forks (with plenty of clearance) for
between 250 and 500 gbp. These frames are built in columbus navichrom or
reynolds 631 or 853, varying in price depending on how expensive the
tubing is.

Since I don't know much about these tubes, if the advice stacks up in
favour of a new frame, my next question would be what tubing gives a
'531/columbus slx type' balance of cost, weight and strength? I don't want
to sacrifice durability in order to save a few hundred grammes. Then
again, I want a lightweight bike. I'm not that heavy - about 165 pounds,
but like to ride my bike on rough roads occasionally and down steps if the
way is clear.

From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good
choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with 853
because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********.

So, should I repair the old one or buy a new one?

I have another question regarding 'aero' brake levers, but I'll put it in
a separate post since this one already feels too long.

Thanks in advance for your advice.
Tony

Tony Sweeney wrote:
I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be
repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder.

(I don't want to raise the question of steel vs
aluminium/carbon/titanium which I know most people have strong opinions
on. I'm happy with steel.)

Good points of my existing frame: -
Typical 'touring' geometry of the day - long chain stays and long offset
in the forks.
Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres
and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels.

Bad points: -
The bottom bracket threads are knackered. I have been using externally
threadless cartridge bottom brackets for a couple of years, but the only
ones I can get are low quality and they wear out (too much play) quickly.

My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same
problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots
into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the
diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then
re-threads the shell. It seemed to be a robust repair on my previous
frame to my untrained eye.

Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about
65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike,
but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer
(shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try
myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep
enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I
need.

If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done.
The total cost will be about gbp100.

New frame and forks: -
I can get an off the peg frame and forks (with plenty of clearance) for
between 250 and 500 gbp. These frames are built in columbus navichrom or
reynolds 631 or 853, varying in price depending on how expensive the
tubing is.

Since I don't know much about these tubes, if the advice stacks up in
favour of a new frame, my next question would be what tubing gives a
'531/columbus slx type' balance of cost, weight and strength? I don't
want to sacrifice durability in order to save a few hundred grammes.
Then again, I want a lightweight bike. I'm not that heavy - about 165
pounds, but like to ride my bike on rough roads occasionally and down
steps if the way is clear.

From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good
choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with
853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********.

So, should I repair the old one or buy a new one?

I have another question regarding 'aero' brake levers, but I'll put it
in a separate post since this one already feels too long.

Thanks in advance for your advice.
Tony

get a new, custom frame, 631 is great stuff. get it made for long reach
brakes(fender clearance) and 700c wheels(in an other 20 years, 27 inch
will be gone).