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#1
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New frame or repair
I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be
repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder. (I don't want to raise the question of steel vs aluminium/carbon/titanium which I know most people have strong opinions on. I'm happy with steel.) Good points of my existing frame: - Typical 'touring' geometry of the day - long chain stays and long offset in the forks. Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels. Bad points: - The bottom bracket threads are knackered. I have been using externally threadless cartridge bottom brackets for a couple of years, but the only ones I can get are low quality and they wear out (too much play) quickly. My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then re-threads the shell. It seemed to be a robust repair on my previous frame to my untrained eye. Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about 65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike, but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer (shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I need. If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done. The total cost will be about gbp100. New frame and forks: - I can get an off the peg frame and forks (with plenty of clearance) for between 250 and 500 gbp. These frames are built in columbus navichrom or reynolds 631 or 853, varying in price depending on how expensive the tubing is. Since I don't know much about these tubes, if the advice stacks up in favour of a new frame, my next question would be what tubing gives a '531/columbus slx type' balance of cost, weight and strength? I don't want to sacrifice durability in order to save a few hundred grammes. Then again, I want a lightweight bike. I'm not that heavy - about 165 pounds, but like to ride my bike on rough roads occasionally and down steps if the way is clear. From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with 853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********. So, should I repair the old one or buy a new one? I have another question regarding 'aero' brake levers, but I'll put it in a separate post since this one already feels too long. Thanks in advance for your advice. Tony |
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#2
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New frame or repair
Tony Sweeney wrote: I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder. (I don't want to raise the question of steel vs aluminium/carbon/titanium which I know most people have strong opinions on. I'm happy with steel.) Good points of my existing frame: - Typical 'touring' geometry of the day - long chain stays and long offset in the forks. Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels. Bad points: - The bottom bracket threads are knackered. I have been using externally threadless cartridge bottom brackets for a couple of years, but the only ones I can get are low quality and they wear out (too much play) quickly. My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then re-threads the shell. It seemed to be a robust repair on my previous frame to my untrained eye. Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about 65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike, but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer (shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I need. If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done. The total cost will be about gbp100. New frame and forks: - I can get an off the peg frame and forks (with plenty of clearance) for between 250 and 500 gbp. These frames are built in columbus navichrom or reynolds 631 or 853, varying in price depending on how expensive the tubing is. Since I don't know much about these tubes, if the advice stacks up in favour of a new frame, my next question would be what tubing gives a '531/columbus slx type' balance of cost, weight and strength? I don't want to sacrifice durability in order to save a few hundred grammes. Then again, I want a lightweight bike. I'm not that heavy - about 165 pounds, but like to ride my bike on rough roads occasionally and down steps if the way is clear. From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with 853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********. So, should I repair the old one or buy a new one? I have another question regarding 'aero' brake levers, but I'll put it in a separate post since this one already feels too long. Thanks in advance for your advice. Tony Well, this really depends on your total budget, and how much of your older components you can transfer over to the "new" frame. If you get a contemporary frame the component costs (threadless stem, handlebar, brakes, wheels?) in themselves are not going to be cheap. Regarding brake reach, if you require a drop of 60+ mm, I don't even think campy drop bolts are going to help you on that one. Even if they did, you're likely not going to be pleased with the results in performance anyways. I'm inclined to say just sell off your old bike and get a more contemporary used bike as a replacement, if that works for you. Or just get a new bike. |
#3
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New frame or repair
Tony Sweeney wrote: I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder. (I don't want to raise the question of steel vs aluminium/carbon/titanium which I know most people have strong opinions on. I'm happy with steel.) Good points of my existing frame: - Typical 'touring' geometry of the day - long chain stays and long offset in the forks. Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels. Bad points: - The bottom bracket threads are knackered. I have been using externally threadless cartridge bottom brackets for a couple of years, but the only ones I can get are low quality and they wear out (too much play) quickly. My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then re-threads the shell. It seemed to be a robust repair on my previous frame to my untrained eye. Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about 65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike, but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer (shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I need. If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done. The total cost will be about gbp100. New frame and forks: - I can get an off the peg frame and forks (with plenty of clearance) for between 250 and 500 gbp. These frames are built in columbus navichrom or reynolds 631 or 853, varying in price depending on how expensive the tubing is. Since I don't know much about these tubes, if the advice stacks up in favour of a new frame, my next question would be what tubing gives a '531/columbus slx type' balance of cost, weight and strength? I don't want to sacrifice durability in order to save a few hundred grammes. Then again, I want a lightweight bike. I'm not that heavy - about 165 pounds, but like to ride my bike on rough roads occasionally and down steps if the way is clear. From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with 853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********. So, should I repair the old one or buy a new one? I have another question regarding 'aero' brake levers, but I'll put it in a separate post since this one already feels too long. Thanks in advance for your advice. Stronglight makes an excellent quality BB for just this purpose: http://tinyurl.com/yd38rs (The outside edges of the BB shell will need to be champhered to use this BB. Your framebuilder contact should be able to do this.) Tony |
#4
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New frame or repair
Tony Sweeney wrote: I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder. If it fits and feels good, and the fix is solid, repair and spray. It'll look nice and fresh with the new paint. Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about 65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike, but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer (shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I need. Tektro R556 stops great, but might not be as shiny as you like. 73mm reach. I've got the shorter versions on both my road bikes. No complaints. $60 in the US, and likely a smidge more if you're in the UK. http://www.tektro.com/02products/08521ag.php |
#5
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New frame or repair
On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:53:01 +0000, Tony Sweeney wrote:
I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder. I'd go for b (or, at least get a new frame somewhere). With these problems: Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels. Too massive, since you need such long-reach brakes. Bad points: - The bottom bracket threads are knackered. My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then re-threads the shell. Then you re-paint the frame? Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about 65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike, but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer (shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I need. Well, debatable about existence and quality, but certainly there are better solutions. These old Weinman's are a PITA to adjust compared to modern brakes of any design. If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done. The total cost will be about gbp100. Get powder-coat if you do this. Very durable finish, and looks great. But you are going to spend for the bottom bracket repair, for possibly non-existent brakes, plus paint, and end up with a bike that may not stop all that well, weighs a couple pounds more than a new one, all for roughly the cost of a new frame. There are drop-bolts to get modern brakes to reach, but those interfere with fenders and/or big tires. My recommendation: Get a touring frame with the geometry you want and the clearance you want for the tires and fenders. Get canti brakes (and, of course, a frame with bosses) so clearance is not an issue and you don't have to live with jerry-rigged brakes. From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with 853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********. Yeah. don't fret different tubing for this kind of frame. Get something durable and reliable. Build is more important than alloy. -- David L. Johnson __o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and _`\(,_ | Excellence. (_)/ (_) | |
#6
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New frame or repair
In article ,
Tony Sweeney wrote: I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder. (I don't want to raise the question of steel vs aluminium/carbon/titanium which I know most people have strong opinions on. I'm happy with steel.) Good points of my existing frame: - Typical 'touring' geometry of the day - long chain stays and long offset in the forks. Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels. Bad points: - The bottom bracket threads are knackered. I have been using externally threadless cartridge bottom brackets for a couple of years, but the only ones I can get are low quality and they wear out (too much play) quickly. My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then re-threads the shell. It seemed to be a robust repair on my previous frame to my untrained eye. Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about 65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike, but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer (shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I need. If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done. The total cost will be about gbp100. New frame and forks: - I can get an off the peg frame and forks (with plenty of clearance) for between 250 and 500 gbp. These frames are built in columbus navichrom or reynolds 631 or 853, varying in price depending on how expensive the tubing is. Since I don't know much about these tubes, if the advice stacks up in favour of a new frame, my next question would be what tubing gives a '531/columbus slx type' balance of cost, weight and strength? I don't want to sacrifice durability in order to save a few hundred grammes. Then again, I want a lightweight bike. I'm not that heavy - about 165 pounds, but like to ride my bike on rough roads occasionally and down steps if the way is clear. From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with 853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********. So, should I repair the old one or buy a new one? I have another question regarding 'aero' brake levers, but I'll put it in a separate post since this one already feels too long. Somebody is now making 70 mm dual caliper brakes. Yes, here they are. http://www.tektro.com/02products/08r365r356.php Jobst had the bottom bracket thread redone by silver soldering in new steel, then threading it. New frames are good. Whether you get new or repair, you need to _know_ that you and the frame builder share the same vision. For instance, will your frame builder balk at using tubes heavier than the very lightest? Do you _want_ a new frame? If yes, then get it. That old frame may be an worth repairing even with a new frame. Make it a single speed, or an internal hub with mud guards and chain cage. -- Michael Press |
#7
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New frame or repair
I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be repaired
or buy a new frame from my local frame builder. Reading through the subsequent text, I couldn't get a good feel for how many miles you've put on your old bike, but when you're talking about reparing something that old, you do have to keep in mind that something else might possibly break as well. On old steel frames, the most-likely areas would be the derailleur-side rear dropout (where it connects to the frame), or a tear/crack across the seat tube, below the front derailleur, and starting on the side opposite the chainrings. In general, I've seen high-quality steel frames fail in those areas between 35-50k miles, although many will last considerably longer, and some much shorter (if some guy's too happy with a torch or doesn't bother aligning dropouts or rear axle width). You might also look for evidence of corrosion. Definitely check your fork thoroughly. --Mike Jacoubowsky Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA "Tony Sweeney" wrote in message ... I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder. (I don't want to raise the question of steel vs aluminium/carbon/titanium which I know most people have strong opinions on. I'm happy with steel.) Good points of my existing frame: - Typical 'touring' geometry of the day - long chain stays and long offset in the forks. Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels. Bad points: - The bottom bracket threads are knackered. I have been using externally threadless cartridge bottom brackets for a couple of years, but the only ones I can get are low quality and they wear out (too much play) quickly. My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then re-threads the shell. It seemed to be a robust repair on my previous frame to my untrained eye. Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about 65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike, but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer (shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I need. If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done. The total cost will be about gbp100. New frame and forks: - I can get an off the peg frame and forks (with plenty of clearance) for between 250 and 500 gbp. These frames are built in columbus navichrom or reynolds 631 or 853, varying in price depending on how expensive the tubing is. Since I don't know much about these tubes, if the advice stacks up in favour of a new frame, my next question would be what tubing gives a '531/columbus slx type' balance of cost, weight and strength? I don't want to sacrifice durability in order to save a few hundred grammes. Then again, I want a lightweight bike. I'm not that heavy - about 165 pounds, but like to ride my bike on rough roads occasionally and down steps if the way is clear. From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with 853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********. So, should I repair the old one or buy a new one? I have another question regarding 'aero' brake levers, but I'll put it in a separate post since this one already feels too long. Thanks in advance for your advice. Tony |
#8
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New frame or repair
Tony Sweeney wrote: I am undecided whether to pay for my 20+ year old 531 frame to be repaired or buy a new frame from my local frame builder. (I don't want to raise the question of steel vs aluminium/carbon/titanium which I know most people have strong opinions on. I'm happy with steel.) Good points of my existing frame: - Typical 'touring' geometry of the day - long chain stays and long offset in the forks. Massive clearance - it was made for 27" wheels with big touring tyres and mudguards (fenders), so has huge clearance with 700c wheels. Bad points: - The bottom bracket threads are knackered. I have been using externally threadless cartridge bottom brackets for a couple of years, but the only ones I can get are low quality and they wear out (too much play) quickly. My local framebuilder has repaired a previous frame I had with the same problem so I know he can carry this repair out. I think he cuts slots into the outside edges of the BB, squeezes the shell in to reduce the diameter and brazes a couple of strips of steel to the underside, then re-threads the shell. It seemed to be a robust repair on my previous frame to my untrained eye. Another problem is finding calipers that have sufficient drop (about 65-70mm). I am using the original Weinman 720s that came on the bike, but would prefer to upgrade to calipers with a quick release and nicer (shinier) finish. Like Campag super record. I've not had a pair to try myself but I've been told that those old campag calipers are not deep enough and there is nothing of that quality ever made to the drop that I need. If I were to have the frame repaired I would get a respray done. The total cost will be about gbp100. New frame and forks: - I can get an off the peg frame and forks (with plenty of clearance) for between 250 and 500 gbp. These frames are built in columbus navichrom or reynolds 631 or 853, varying in price depending on how expensive the tubing is. Since I don't know much about these tubes, if the advice stacks up in favour of a new frame, my next question would be what tubing gives a '531/columbus slx type' balance of cost, weight and strength? I don't want to sacrifice durability in order to save a few hundred grammes. Then again, I want a lightweight bike. I'm not that heavy - about 165 pounds, but like to ride my bike on rough roads occasionally and down steps if the way is clear. From what the frame builder's 'assistant' said, 631 sounds like a good choice. But he also said that I'd be able to feel the difference with 853 because it would be more responsive. Which sounded like ********. So, should I repair the old one or buy a new one? I have another question regarding 'aero' brake levers, but I'll put it in a separate post since this one already feels too long. Thanks in advance for your advice. Tony get a new, custom frame, 631 is great stuff. get it made for long reach brakes(fender clearance) and 700c wheels(in an other 20 years, 27 inch will be gone). |
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