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Mountain Bikers Prefer to Attack Me, Rather than Discuss the Harm that Mountain Biking Does!



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 21st 08, 03:37 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Mountain Bikers Prefer to Attack Me, Rather than Discuss the Harm that Mountain Biking Does!

It's a sure sign that they can't defend their selfish, destructive,
disgusting sport with any FACTS or LOGIC!

Mike


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Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:12:35 -0700 (PDT)
From:
Subject: Mountain Bike Racing in Capitol Forest
To: Mike Vandeman
Cc:

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Mike,

Wow, you don't sound like a very happy person. I'm sorry you are so
personally troubled. Not sure who you are or why you singled me out to
send this email to, but Capitol Forest is not a Wilderness Area.
Capitol Forest is a working forest that uses logging and other
renewable based resource revenue for our state schools, libraries and
roads, as well as recreation opportunities for mountain bikers,
hikers, trail runners, equestrians, ATV's, motorcycles and hunters.
Diversity of pubilc land management in this country provides an equal
opportuniy for all citizens interests to be met on public lands. It
sounds like you enjoy Wilderness Area recreation opportunites. There
are plenty of Wildernes Areas in Washington State to enjoy. I'd be
glad to help you find them.


Happy trails.

-Another happy recreational user in Capitol Forest.

Mike Vandeman wrote:
It's bad enough that a destructive sport like mountain biking is even
permitted in the Capitol Forest, but mountain bike RACING is insane!
The primary purpose of all natural areas is to provide habitat for
our native wildlife. It's their HOME, and was for about 4 billion
years before humans ever appeared. In short, mountain biking and
other abuses of this land are a sacrilege! If mountain bikers want to
abuse some land in that manner, they should buy the land. (However,
even that wouldn't give them the right to harm endangered species.)

I also noticed that your website displays a sign requiring mountain
bikers to YIELD to all other trail users. Will they also be doing
that during this race? And will you therefore ticket those who don't
yield?

Bicycles should not be allowed in any natural area. They are
inanimate objects and have no rights. There is also no right to
mountain bike. That was settled in federal court in 1994:
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mtb10. It's dishonest of mountain
bikers to say that they don't have access to trails closed to bikes.
They have EXACTLY the same access as everyone else -- ON FOOT! Why
isn't that good enough for mountain bikers? They are all capable of
walking....

A favorite myth of mountain bikers is that mountain biking is no more
harmful to wildlife, people, and the environment than hiking, and
that science supports that view. Of course, it's not true. To settle
the matter once and for all, I read all of the research they cited,
and wrote a review of the research on mountain biking impacts (see
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7). I found that of the seven
studies they cited, (1) all were written by mountain bikers, and (2)
in every case, the authors misinterpreted their own data, in order to
come to the conclusion that they favored. They also studiously
avoided mentioning another scientific study (Wisdom et al) which did
not favor mountain biking, and came to the opposite conclusions.

Those were all experimental studies. Two other studies (by White et
al and by Jeff Marion) used a survey design, which is inherently
incapable of answering that question (comparing hiking with mountain
biking). I only mention them because mountain bikers often cite them,
but scientifically, they are worthless.

Mountain biking accelerates erosion, creates V-shaped ruts, kills
small animals and plants on and next to the trail, drives wildlife
and other trail users out of the
area, and (worst of all) teaches kids that the rough treatment of
nature is okay (it's NOT!). What's good about THAT?

For more information: http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mtbfaq.

Mike Vandeman, Ph.D.


To: "'BBTC'"
From: "Micah Klesick"
List-Subscribe:
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2008 20:28:25 -0700
Subject: Capitol Forest Race

I went down to Capitol Forest today to pre-ride the race course. Does
anyone know how long the race will take? I was just wondering, as just
the
short loop (7 miles) around the Valley of Death took us about an hour
and 20
minutes. I think that will be around an hour when actually racing.

Capitol Forest is Awesome! The Super-D section of the race is going to
be
so much fun! I have an Enduro Expert that just flies down that trail.

Micah

--

I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande







.................................................. ......................
www.capitolforest.com
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
Ads
  #2  
Old July 21st 08, 01:14 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Siskuwihane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 534
Default Pseudo-enviromentalist Not Qualified To Make Any Conclusions.

On Jul 20, 10:37*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
To settle the matter once and for all, I read all of the research they cited,
and wrote a review of the research on mountain biking impacts



You are not qualified to settle the matter.


  #3  
Old July 22nd 08, 01:19 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 495
Default Pseudo-enviromentalist Not Qualified To Make Any Conclusions.

I just re-read the email to you and There isn't anything in the
gentleman's email to even remotely see an "Attack"...an attack would
be if someone called you a closet homosexual galloping gourmet draft
dodging non-book writing sociopathic, hypocrite working for a nature
destroying company such as yourself and a shunned man of society...

Which you qualify as all of the above. That is an attack...you former
mountain biker!

you'll never live this down Mike Vanderman
  #4  
Old July 22nd 08, 05:27 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Siskuwihane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 534
Default Pseudo-enviromentalist Not Qualified To Make Any Conclusions.

On Jul 21, 8:19*pm, "
wrote:
I just re-read the email to you and There isn't anything in the
gentleman's email to even remotely see an "Attack"...an attack would
be if someone called you a closet homosexual galloping gourmet draft
dodging non-book writing sociopathic, hypocrite working for a nature
destroying company such as yourself and a shunned man of society...

Which you qualify as all of the above. That is an attack...you former
mountain biker!


Once a mountain-biker, always a mountain-biker.
  #5  
Old July 23rd 08, 01:23 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Pseudo-enviromentalist Not Qualified To Make Any Conclusions.

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane
wrote:

On Jul 20, 10:37*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
To settle the matter once and for all, I read all of the research they cited,
and wrote a review of the research on mountain biking impacts



You are not qualified to settle the matter.


Yes, I am. Any science Ph.D. certifies expertise in the scientific
method. You aren't even qualified to judge who is qualified. I AM.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #6  
Old July 23rd 08, 01:24 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Pseudo-enviromentalist Not Qualified To Make Any Conclusions.

On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:19:52 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I just re-read the email to you and There isn't anything in the
gentleman's email to even remotely see an "Attack"...an attack would
be if someone called you a closet homosexual galloping gourmet draft
dodging non-book writing sociopathic, hypocrite working for a nature
destroying company such as yourself and a shunned man of society...

Which you qualify as all of the above. That is an attack...you former
mountain biker!

you'll never live this down Mike Vanderman


Did you say something?
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #7  
Old July 23rd 08, 01:44 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Siskuwihane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 534
Default Pseudo-enviromentalist Not Qualified To Make Any Conclusions.

On Jul 22, 8:23*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 05:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Siskuwihane

wrote:
On Jul 20, 10:37*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
To settle the matter once and for all, I read all of the research they cited,
and wrote a review of the research on mountain biking impacts


You are not qualified to settle the matter.


Yes, I am. Any science Ph.D. certifies expertise in the scientific
method. You aren't even qualified to judge who is qualified. I AM.


You can't even grasp the rhythm method let alone the scientific
method.
  #8  
Old July 23rd 08, 01:52 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Mountain Bikers Prefer to Attack Me, Rather than Discuss the Harm that Mountain Biking Does!


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
It's a sure sign that they can't defend their selfish, destructive,
disgusting sport with any FACTS or LOGIC!

Mike


OR, it's a sign that you make a very weak argument to support your agenda,
and we are growing weary of listening to you spew the same pack of lies year
after year.

I, for one, have shown that your agenda to close bike routes (if 100%
successful) would save only 0.004% of the habitat they pass through. Hardly
an effort in preservation that covers the cost. I doubt you could ever be
100% effective, since you have not been effective so far in getting anything
done so far.




  #9  
Old July 23rd 08, 03:22 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 495
Default Mountain Bikers Prefer to Attack Me, Rather than Discuss the Harmthat Mountain Biking Does!

Once again...I obviously did say something...you listened and
responded. I forgot to mention you're an asshole!
  #10  
Old July 23rd 08, 03:26 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Mountain Bikers Prefer to Attack Me, Rather than Discuss the Harm that Mountain Biking Does!


wrote in message
...
Once again...I obviously did say something...you listened and
responded. I forgot to mention you're an asshole!



You could be right about my personal attributes, but I directed my comments
to Mike not you, so I'm not sure why you are taking aim at me




....





 




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