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#21
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Chris B. quoted someone thusly
in message . .. "That includes N.D.P. MPP Michael Prue, who lost his brother to a bike accident in 1998. ?There isn't a day goes by that I don't see someone on the streets of Toronto, an adult, with no helmet on their head, and I want to get out of my car or off the sidewalk and I want to grab them and I want to shake them,? he reflects. ?I want to tell them that this was an absolutely wrong thing, a bad thing to happen." Oh dear! Shaking them? MPP Prue really should read up on rotational injuries that are not prevented --- and may be exacerbated -- by wearing a helmet. Peter Storey |
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#22
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On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:36:05 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: AustinMN wrote: Chris Phillipo wrote In article , says... I'm saying that he constantly posts statistics that claim helmet use is detrimental to the health of the people because it deters them from riding, I counter that in Nova Scotia helmet use is not enforced so where exactly is this deterrent for riders? Chris, these two statements don't oppose and contradict each other. Come again? Take a deep breath. Just because a law is not enforced, doesn't mean there aren't people who obey it. The existence of the law (whether or not it is enforced) _is_ a deterrent. More to the point, just because a law is not enforced - or, more likely, not _usually_ enforced - doesn't mean that there are people who are put off by the _possibility_ of enforcement. Those who think a MHL has no effect on cycling are being very unrealistic. Frank, why did you remove the cross post? It is very much on topic for ont.bicycle. -- "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber-barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber- baron's cruelty may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis |
#23
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Benjamin Lewis wrote:
To go even further, the mere existence of a law purported to be for "safety" purposes, even if it is *guaranteed* to be unenforced, can potentially be a deterrent, since it spreads the idea, sometimes unconsciously, that the activity is dangerous. Not to mention spreading the silly idea that the government is your parent. |
#24
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Dragan Cvetkovic writes:
Chris Phillipo writes: In article , bikerider@-no- spam-thanks-rogers.com says... I wonder why. Are you aware that mandatory helmet laws implemented in Alberta, Nova Scotia, New Zealand and parts of Australia have not only not shown benefits but have actually had negative effects (decreased numbers of cyclists in all cases and sometimes an increase in the rate of head injury after the law is enacted)? Ho hum, that would be a neat trick considering the helmet laws are not even enforced outside of Halifax in Nova Scotia. Which makes me think the rest of these "statitics" are in quesiton. Are you saying that people should obey the law only if it is actually and actively enforced? He's saying what I have said for years on this topic: that laws that are not obeyed or enforced have zero impact on human behavior. People are not going to stop cycling because of a helmet law that is neither obeyed nor enforced. Bill -- My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB |
#25
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Chris B. wrote:
Frank, why did you remove the cross post? It is very much on topic for ont.bicycle. Because my system won't let me post there. When I try, the entire post hangs. I agree it's very much on topic there. Feel free to copy. -- --------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu] |
#26
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Chris Phillipo wrote:
That had nothing to do with the point of my post but I'm sure that this bill, like almost all others, has no provision in it for extra law enforment spending. Which means, of course, that any time the cops give to enforcing it is time taken away from real productive activity. -- --------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu] |
#27
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Ken [NY) wrote:
To the fellow who was thinking about fleeing to Canada from the horrors of Bush's low tax rates, you might want to think about this proposed law. But then, there's the opportunity to get free of Neanderthal right wingers and their simplistic "thinking." The choice isn't easy! Ah well. We're off topic, aren't we? -- --------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu] |
#28
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On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:25:14 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: Chris B. wrote: Frank, why did you remove the cross post? It is very much on topic for ont.bicycle. Because my system won't let me post there. When I try, the entire post hangs. I agree it's very much on topic there. Feel free to copy. I hadn't even considered that, sorry. I must say, I'm not usually so provincial. -- "Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber-barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber- baron's cruelty may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis |
#29
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Chris B. writes:
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:25:14 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: Chris B. wrote: Frank, why did you remove the cross post? It is very much on topic for ont.bicycle. Because my system won't let me post there. When I try, the entire post hangs. I agree it's very much on topic there. Feel free to copy. I hadn't even considered that, sorry. Krygoswki's claim doesn't make much sense - normally you get an error if you can't post and the newsreader just reports it. If he really can't post, then he should first try a different newsreader to rule out a bug in the version of Mozilla he uses (5.0) and then report the problem to his employer (he seems to be posting from work.) |
#30
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My kids are grown, but they _certainly_ did a lot of riding without bike
helmets. In fact, I assume _all_ of us did. A parent is allowed to let his kid climb a tree without a helmet. He's allowed to let his kid play pickup baseball without a helmet. He's allowed to let his kid ride his pony without a helmet. In each of these, and many other situations, the choice is reasonably left up to the parent. What in the world is so dangerous about cycling that justifies overpowering parental judgement? This makes sense to me. There were certainly no helmet laws when I was a child and there were none for my children. I sometimes wonder how I survived childhood and also how my children survived. I rode in the back of my fathers pickup truck with my brother all through my childhood. If you put your kid in the back of a pick up in the NY/NJ area today, you would be arrested for child abuse or neglect. We didn't have car seats, seat belts, helmets, and our cribs had slats we could stick our heads through,and wooden high chairs we could climb out of very easily. HOW DID WE SURVIVE??? When I had my first child there were no still no car seat laws. Some of my greatest memories of childhood were building cars out of wood crates and roller skate wheels and flying down the steepest hills we could find with no brakes. How the heck did we survive? My brother and I still laugh about those days. We fell out of our treehouse when it collapsed and survived and in the process learned to build a better tree house. To ride our bikes, we just hopped on and rode. We never went to a LBS for anything. If the bike broke we found a way to put it back together. When the chain fell off we stopped and fixed it until it fell off again. When the brakes broke we used our feet. It is funny to think about that is this age of hi tech and safety laws. I must admit I had a few black eyes and battle scars from hanging around with an older brother but.... Maybe there are just too many laws protecting our safety now. I would not trade those old stories of childhood for anything. Even with the black eyes. When do laws become a hindrence rather than a help? Peace and stuff http://hometown.aol.com/lbuset/ |
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