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A demented theory of why Lance is coming back



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 12th 08, 11:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Ryan Cousineau
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Posts: 4,044
Default A demented theory of why Lance is coming back

In article ,
Donald Munro wrote:

Diablo Scott wrote:
But how will he prevent LNDD/Equipe from sabotaging his samples again?


Ryan Cousineau wrote:
By not winning.


Your logic ties him up and rapes him.


My logic could face the death penalty in Texas.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
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  #22  
Old September 12th 08, 11:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Ryan Cousineau
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Posts: 4,044
Default A demented theory of why Lance is coming back

In article ,
"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:

"mtb Dad" wrote in message
...
On Sep 12, 12:08 am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

Lance was never particularly enthusiastic about doping from a
philosophical point of view. He saw it as a necessary part of racing,
and feared getting popped only slightly less than he feared losing.


I think that he probably was using all sorts of drugs before his cancer as
was noted by Andreu's wife and then used as proof that because he used drugs
before he got so near death it proved that he used drugs after.


I think the best evidence that Lance used drugs was a combination of the
various eye-witnesses and his performance in a peloton that, in
retrospect, was probably doped from end to end.

Double win: do the new-fangled biological passport thing, race clean,
and reestablish his legacy by winning a few things (not necessarily the
Tour; he is 37 after all, and that's 81 in bike-racer years) while
clean, thus clearing his reputation and his conscience all in one blow,
plus making all the current young guns look like pretenders to the
throne.


What if he were to win the Tour with an average speed at or higher than his
other wins? What if this was done while he had a complete biological
passport workup? Does this mean that his rides before were or weren't
drugged?


Ultimately, that will depend on where David Millar finishes, of course.

In all seriousness, peloton speeds are way too variable to be a useful
proxy for doped-up performance. If his VAM on key climbs goes up by 5%,
though, then we'll talk.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
  #23  
Old September 12th 08, 11:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Ryan Cousineau
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Posts: 4,044
Default A demented theory of why Lance is coming back

In article
,
mtb Dad wrote:

On Sep 12, 12:08*am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
LA's legacy is currently tainted, to a large extent, by the "did he
dope?" question. He's noticed.

I asked my evil vanishing twin about this, and here's what he had to say:

Lance was never particularly enthusiastic about doping from a
philosophical point of view. He saw it as a necessary part of racing,
and feared getting popped only slightly less than he feared losing.

Lance sincerely believes that the current peleton [sic; my evil twin
can't spell very well] is clean enough that he could compete clean.

Double win: do the new-fangled biological passport thing, race clean,
and reestablish his legacy by winning a few things (not necessarily the
Tour; he is 37 after all, and that's 81 in bike-racer years) while
clean, thus clearing his reputation and his conscience all in one blow,
plus making all the current young guns look like pretenders to the
throne.



I think you might be at least partly right. The only reservation I
have is his apparent ruthlessness towards Simeoni and other anti-
doping types. And if he was as ambivalent to doping as you say, why
not advocate for better doping control? This years Tour demonstrated
that as simple a thing as chaperones threw the dopers into a biy of a
tail spin. How hard would it have been to ask for that? Retroactive
testing might have been harder to ask for though .


Remember, this theory isn't mine, it belongs to my evil vanishing twin,
who must remain nameless because he writes my secret blog. I, myself,
would never engage in such utterly reckless and unfounded speculation.

My evil twin suggests that you reread the first paragraph: Lance feared
getting popped only slightly less than he feared losing. I think it's
fair to say that more than seeing Simeoni as an enemy of doping, he saw
him as an enemy of Lance's reputation.

My personal feeling is that the UCI leadership is more responsible
than anyone for maintainng the doping culture that supports your
theory. When's the truth and reconciliation commission for that era?


The truth and reconciliation committee knocked on Zabel and Riis' doors,
and demanded their shirts back.

Which is pretty emblematic of how screwed up cycling is, really.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
  #24  
Old September 13th 08, 04:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Default A demented theory of why Lance is coming back

On Sep 12, 3:52*pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
"mtb Dad" wrote in message

...
On Sep 12, 12:08 am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:



Lance was never particularly enthusiastic about doping from a
philosophical point of view. He saw it as a necessary part of racing,
and feared getting popped only slightly less than he feared losing.


I think that he probably was using all sorts of drugs before his cancer as
was noted by Andreu's wife and then used as proof that because he used drugs
before he got so near death it proved that he used drugs after.



you wouldn't consider andreu's wife might have been bought for false
testimony by the insurance company that owed lance ? who were the
doctors in the room at the time ? men in black perhaps ?
  #25  
Old September 13th 08, 06:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Ryan Cousineau
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Posts: 4,044
Default A demented theory of why Lance is coming back

In article
,
wrote:

On Sep 12, 3:52*pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
"mtb Dad" wrote in message

...
On Sep 12, 12:08 am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:



Lance was never particularly enthusiastic about doping from a
philosophical point of view. He saw it as a necessary part of racing,
and feared getting popped only slightly less than he feared losing.


I think that he probably was using all sorts of drugs before his cancer as
was noted by Andreu's wife and then used as proof that because he used drugs
before he got so near death it proved that he used drugs after.



you wouldn't consider andreu's wife might have been bought for false
testimony by the insurance company that owed lance ? who were the
doctors in the room at the time ? men in black perhaps ?


Well, I'd consider that, but it requires a pretty big conspiracy, for a
pretty small payoff.

What would it cost to buy off Betsy? "A lot" is my guess; by any
calculus such a lie was going to seriously screw up her husband's life
and career (and I'd argue that's what happened).

Then you have to look at the real return to the insurers, who would
specifically reap that yield, and the monstrously large penalties if any
one of the conspirators were caught.

--
Ryan Cousineau
http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
  #26  
Old September 13th 08, 08:30 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Donald Munro
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Default A demented theory of why Lance is coming back

Diablo Scott wrote:
But how will he prevent LNDD/Equipe from sabotaging his samples
again?


Ryan Cousineau wrote:
By not winning.


Donald Munro wrote:
Your logic ties him up and rapes him.


Ryan Cousineau wrote:
My logic could face the death penalty in Texas.


Logic is illegal in Texas.

  #27  
Old September 13th 08, 10:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Posts: 285
Default A demented theory of why Lance is coming back

On Sep 12, 10:15*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

What would it cost to buy off Betsy? "A lot" is my guess; by any
calculus such a lie was going to seriously screw up her husband's life
and career (and I'd argue that's what happened).


Argue? Robbie Ventura is slowly taking over his job.
  #28  
Old September 13th 08, 12:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Posts: 46
Default A demented theory of why Lance is coming back

On Sep 12, 3:17*pm, wrote:

he learned that Wiens was in his 40s.- Hide quoted text -


I hope he asks Wiens to go ride on the road with him. He's obviously
got a huge engine.

Mark


  #29  
Old September 13th 08, 02:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
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Posts: 769
Default A demented theory of why Lance is coming back

On Sep 13, 12:15*am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article
,





wrote:
On Sep 12, 3:52*pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
"mtb Dad" wrote in message


....
On Sep 12, 12:08 am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:


Lance was never particularly enthusiastic about doping from a
philosophical point of view. He saw it as a necessary part of racing,
and feared getting popped only slightly less than he feared losing.


I think that he probably was using all sorts of drugs before his cancer as
was noted by Andreu's wife and then used as proof that because he used drugs
before he got so near death it proved that he used drugs after.


you wouldn't consider andreu's wife might have been bought for false
testimony by the insurance company that owed lance ? who were the
doctors in the room at the time ? men in black perhaps ?


Well, I'd consider that, but it requires a pretty big conspiracy, for a
pretty small payoff.

What would it cost to buy off Betsy? "A lot" is my guess; by any
calculus such a lie was going to seriously screw up her husband's life
and career (and I'd argue that's what happened).

Then you have to look at the real return to the insurers, who would
specifically reap that yield, and the monstrously large penalties if any
one of the conspirators were caught.

--
Ryan Cousineau /
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


It sounds like the possibility never occured to you before; consider
frankie- yes it cost him his job, but it could've cost him his wife if
he didn't side with her, some people take their marriage vows very
seriously, and according to walshs book frankie stated he didn't
actually hear what his wife said she heard. insurance companies
especially in the states, or off shore, have not been known as icons
of honesty, fairness and integrity. no one says " he's as honest or
fair as an insurance company" unless they say it in a sarcastic
manner. insurers think in terms of mathematical possibilities and win/
loss gaming theory- everything has some risk, but for say perhaps $500
000, they thought they could save $5 million. getting caught ? nah, it
was just an overly zealous now ex-employee. guess they didn't expect
to lose double in the settlement, otherwise they would've paid him the
5 straight out as it still would've been cheaper than the $10 million
they were ordered.

I reciently read that lance allowed the retesting of the 1999 samples
that they state showed some blood doping... now, if he had cheated he
had gotten away with it till then, so why would he then allow
retesting ? if you pass an academic exam, or say some job performance
evaluation, would you really want to risk those results by agreeing
to doing it again ? that just goes against human nature to me. I don't
think lance knew at the time he was asked that the retesting would
destroy those last samples, that's like agreeing to go to court a 2nd
time on serious charges because your lawyer tells you that even if the
verict is guilty, he can say double-jepoardy, anull the verdict and
you're clear for life of those charges- that just doesn't happen.
  #30  
Old September 13th 08, 03:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Tom Kunich
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Posts: 6,456
Default A demented theory of why Lance is coming back

wrote in message
...
On Sep 12, 10:15 pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

What would it cost to buy off Betsy? "A lot" is my guess; by any
calculus such a lie was going to seriously screw up her husband's life
and career (and I'd argue that's what happened).


Argue? Robbie Ventura is slowly taking over his job.


What has that got to do with anything? Maybe you haven't noticed it but
Franky isn't exactly the most exciting TV commentator we've ever seen. Why
wouldn't you expect someone a bit more interesting to take over?

 




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