#221
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Stolen Bike
On 08/08/18 19:21, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 15:24:39 +0100, TMS320 wrote: On 07/08/18 18:29, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Tue, 07 Aug 2018 15:27:28 +0100, JNugent wrote: It is intended only to alert other road-users to one's presence. Er no. It means "You ****ing arsehole, why the hell didn't you indicate?!" A horn conveys no information so how are your targets supposed to know what your problem is? Well let me see, Mr Smith turns right at a roundabout without indicating, and someone correctly pulls in front of him, then sounds their horn when they see he's about to collide with them. He can then look up the highway code or whatever and find out why the other car had the right of way. Just because Mr Smith is not indicating right it is not correct for AN Other to pull out on a whim. Too many hims and thems. Explain who is doing what and who ends up in front of whom. It is not intended to convey the message: "Get out of my way or there might be a crash". I such circumstances, you are supposed to slow down or stop. I don't, I drive as close as possible to the vehicle without touching them, this scares them into not doing it again, Have you ever followed up the result of your education with the individuals concerned? Yes, I often have people banging on my door yelling at me. I had a bus driver sacked for doing just that, after not indicating and deciding he had priority over cars at a junction. So the answer is that you don't know that your education works. |
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#222
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Stolen Bike
On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 19:20:56 +0100, TMS320 wrote:
On 08/08/18 16:28, JNugent wrote: On 08/08/2018 15:24, TMS320 wrote: On 07/08/18 15:27, JNugent wrote: Since horns are rarely, if ever, used for their legallt-intended purpose, my view - for a long time - has been that rather than being a C&U requirement, they should be banned except for the ones used on official emergency vehicles. I once used horn to try and stop a van driver from reversing into me. The HC seems to allow that. Alerting him to your presence is the specific purpose of a horn; that much has been said already. It is a special case when stationary. Why are you making so much fuss about the "correct use of a horn"? OCD is a DISORDER. Get it fixed. Using the horn for its proper purpose is a very rare occurrence. It's hard to escape the conclusion that you're just supposed to stop in order to avoid a collision. The original HC in the 1930's said "sounding your horn does not give you right of way or absolve you from the duty of taking every precaution to avoid an accident". Unfortunately this seems to have disappeared from the modern version. "warn[ing] other road users of your presence" is not particularly helpful. There's still the law about driving without due care and attention and/or without due consideration for other road users. The requirement that a horn should not be used when stationary seems a bit strange because (offhand) I can't think of a circumstance nowadays where the horn could be useful while moving. Perhaps the requirement came from the days when motor vehicles were hard to control and there were few of them so people were not used to their presence. Now, people use roads with the full expectation that something big and fast operated by a psychopath is round the next corner. Also, bulb air horns were more acceptable than the nasty electric objects fitted today. The obvious use whilst moving would be when approaching ths "summit" of a hump-backed bridge or a sharp bend. Perhaps you mean something like this? It is is harder seen from a driver's perspective than from a high mounted camera. No need. Adjust speed according to what can be seen. https://goo.gl/maps/9MSMX69BxzM2 https://goo.gl/maps/R48YMSxzjQk Incidentally, the bridge has a 2t mgw limit so several drivers shown here are breaking the rules - plus many others plus a council official with a Range Rover that knows full well. WTF are you on about? I can clearly see what's coming the other way, that is not a blind bridge whatsoever. Unless it's because the camera is higher up than most drivers. A multi-storey car-park near here had a down-ramp with a give way line at the bottom of it, with the posibility of traffic approaching from the left. A sign on the wall said "Sound Horn". I never did. Weird. The only time I've ever seen that is in France, in a tunnel in the alps, it said something like "soundez obliatoire" with a diagram of a horn. There were houses near the location and the occupants were as entitled to reasonable efforts to keep down noise as anyone else is. Well done you. Likewise, an Italian friend used to sound his car horn on a hump-backed bridge near his village. But the bridge had a house adjacent to it. He would never listen to my remonstrations; I gained the impression that he On a bicycle, the voice can be useful because the approach behind pedestrians or horse riders is otherwise silent. When there is insufficient clearance to get past without having their awareness I always slow to match their speed before announcing my presence. That sort of sounds OK and in keeping with the HC instructions on motor-vehicle horns. Except motor vehicles already make so much noise that they don't require embellishment. Making pedestrians aware of my presence when I approach behind them isn't needed in the car as it is on the bike. Some modern cars are very quiet when driving slowly. I've often crossed a road thinking there's nothing coming when there is. I thought they were electric cars, but some petrol vehicles seem to make virtually no noise now when travelling at 20mph. Not that anyone should ever drive that slowly. I still believe that it would be better if car-horns were simply banned. The nuisance caused by mis-use far outweighs the weight of the odd anecdotal case for their use for safety-related purposes. Indeed. At most, such "safety-related purposes" could only cover small insurance claims and can't possibly have effect on personal safety. If the horn was not so unpleasant, the administrators that defined the 90dbA standard understood physics and the pad on the steering wheel was force sensing to allow the driver to add expression it might be more acceptable. What do you mean? Are you suggesting it should be louder if you press harder? On that subject, why are horns so hard to find? I've often tried to hoot at someone and failed to find the precise part at which you must press the wheel to make the noise. The other thing hard to find is the hazard warning lights, there's no standard at all for the position of the switch. I once rented a van where the switch was actually on the ceiling! They'd also replaced the rearview mirror (which obviously wouldn't work with a van with no back window) with a satnav. I was not told it was a satnav - for my whole journey it functioned as a very large clock. |
#223
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Stolen Bike
On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 20:41:27 +0100, TMS320 wrote:
On 08/08/18 19:21, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 15:24:39 +0100, TMS320 wrote: On 07/08/18 18:29, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Tue, 07 Aug 2018 15:27:28 +0100, JNugent wrote: It is intended only to alert other road-users to one's presence. Er no. It means "You ****ing arsehole, why the hell didn't you indicate?!" A horn conveys no information so how are your targets supposed to know what your problem is? Well let me see, Mr Smith turns right at a roundabout without indicating, and someone correctly pulls in front of him, then sounds their horn when they see he's about to collide with them. He can then look up the highway code or whatever and find out why the other car had the right of way. Just because Mr Smith is not indicating right it is not correct for AN Other to pull out on a whim. Too many hims and thems. Explain who is doing what and who ends up in front of whom. If you don't indicate right at a roundabout, you do not have the right to turn right. WTF are you doing turning without informing other road users as to where you intend to go? It is not intended to convey the message: "Get out of my way or there might be a crash". I such circumstances, you are supposed to slow down or stop. I don't, I drive as close as possible to the vehicle without touching them, this scares them into not doing it again, Have you ever followed up the result of your education with the individuals concerned? Yes, I often have people banging on my door yelling at me. I had a bus driver sacked for doing just that, after not indicating and deciding he had priority over cars at a junction. So the answer is that you don't know that your education works. Try that again in English. |
#224
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Stolen Bike
On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 19:29:02 +0100, Bruce 'Not Glug' Lee
wrote: Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 10:33:18 +0100, Bruce 'Not Glug' Lee wrote: Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Sat, 04 Aug 2018 12:44:54 +0100, Bruce 'Not Glug' Lee wrote: By all accounts, any interaction between a cyclist and a driver will almost inevitably have the latter bleating that the cyclist 'doesn't pay road tax'. That this belief is so widespread, despite 'road tax' having been abolished over eight decades ago, means that it is not going to go away any time soon. The sense of entitlement of the driver is responsible for over 1,700 deaths every year in Britain. Teach drivers that the roads do not belong to them. Beat it out of them. Because that is the only way things are going to change. Drivers have to know that if they threaten the life or physical safety of another road user, then they are going to get seriously injured. I can get to my destination 10 times faster than you. Not in any urban environment you can't. I don't live in such ********s. This is the UK, not Indian slums. I've ridden in London. I did an eight-mile trip faster than a taxi. Surely someone such as yourself who enjoys cycling should enjoy the fresh air and countryside, not built up cities? I look forward to the day oil runs out and we go back to a simpler more natural way of living. |
#225
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Stolen Bike
On 08/08/18 20:44, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 20:41:27 +0100, TMS320 wrote: On 08/08/18 19:21, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 15:24:39 +0100, TMS320 wrote: On 07/08/18 18:29, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Tue, 07 Aug 2018 15:27:28 +0100, JNugent wrote: It is intended only to alert other road-users to one's presence. Er no. It means "You ****ing arsehole, why the hell didn't you indicate?!" *A horn conveys no information so how are your targets supposed to know what your problem is? *Well let me see, Mr Smith turns right at a roundabout without indicating, and someone correctly pulls in front of him, then sounds their horn when they see he's about to collide with them.* He can then look up the highway code or whatever and find out why the other car had the right of way. Just because Mr Smith is not indicating right it is not correct for AN Other to pull out on a whim. Too many hims and thems. Explain who is doing what and who ends up in front of whom. If you don't indicate right at a roundabout, you do not have the right to turn right.* WTF are you doing turning without informing other road users as to where you intend to go? When following marked lanes indication is not necessary. Indication is only useful when making lane changes or where there is ambiguity. And I live in the south east where most people adapt to cope with each others' behaviour without going into a hissy fit at every opportunity. Please explain your scenario in more detail. It is not intended to convey the message: "Get out of my way or there might be a crash". I such circumstances, you are supposed to slow down or stop. I don't, I drive as close as possible to the vehicle without touching them, this scares them into not doing it again, *Have you ever followed up the result of your education with the individuals concerned? *Yes, I often have people banging on my door yelling at me. I had a bus driver sacked for doing just that, after not indicating and deciding he had priority over cars at a junction. So the answer is that you don't know that your education works. Try that again in English. It's good enough. |
#226
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Stolen Bike
On 08/08/18 20:21, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 20:10:08 +0100, TMS320 wrote: On 08/08/18 19:16, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 15:24:28 +0100, TMS320 wrote: On a bicycle, the voice can be useful because the approach behind pedestrians or horse riders is otherwise silent. When there is insufficient clearance to get past without having their awareness I always slow to match their speed before announcing my presence. *Horses panic at anything, silent or not. I have only had a horse panic when it was a face on approach. When approaching from behind the rider needs to know. A horse noticed my 3.5 litre V8 Range Rover approaching from behind. The rider was very annoyed when I overtook in 1st gear. I expect you took great pleasure from it. |
#227
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Stolen Bike
On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 9:00:43 PM UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
I look forward to the day oil runs out and we go back to a simpler more natural way of living. What about my BP shares and pension? |
#228
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Stolen Bike
On 08/08/18 20:43, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 19:20:56 +0100, TMS320 wrote: It is a special case when stationary. Why are you making so much fuss about the "correct use of a horn"? OCD is a DISORDER. Get it fixed. Why do you make so much fuss about "correct use of a indicators"? OCD is a DISORDER. Get it fixed. Perhaps you mean something like this? It is is harder seen from a driver's perspective than from a high mounted camera. No need. Adjust speed according to what can be seen. https://goo.gl/maps/9MSMX69BxzM2 https://goo.gl/maps/R48YMSxzjQk Incidentally, the bridge has a 2t mgw limit so several drivers shown here are breaking the rules - plus many others plus a council official with a Range Rover that knows full well. WTF are you on about? I can clearly see what's coming the other way, that is not a blind bridge whatsoever. Unless it's because the camera is higher up than most drivers. Cast your eyes up a few lines... If the horn was not so unpleasant, the administrators that defined the 90dbA standard understood physics and the pad on the steering wheel was force sensing to allow the driver to add expression it might be more acceptable. What do you mean? Are you suggesting it should be louder if you press harder? Quieter if tapped softly. |
#229
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Stolen Bike
On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 21:17:51 +0100, TMS320 wrote:
On 08/08/18 20:43, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 19:20:56 +0100, TMS320 wrote: It is a special case when stationary. Why are you making so much fuss about the "correct use of a horn"? OCD is a DISORDER. Get it fixed. Why do you make so much fuss about "correct use of a indicators"? OCD is a DISORDER. Get it fixed. Perhaps you mean something like this? It is is harder seen from a driver's perspective than from a high mounted camera. No need. Adjust speed according to what can be seen. https://goo.gl/maps/9MSMX69BxzM2 https://goo.gl/maps/R48YMSxzjQk Incidentally, the bridge has a 2t mgw limit so several drivers shown here are breaking the rules - plus many others plus a council official with a Range Rover that knows full well. WTF are you on about? I can clearly see what's coming the other way, that is not a blind bridge whatsoever. Unless it's because the camera is higher up than most drivers. Cast your eyes up a few lines... Try waffling less. So what was your point? I never hoot at those. I just slow down. If the horn was not so unpleasant, the administrators that defined the 90dbA standard understood physics and the pad on the steering wheel was force sensing to allow the driver to add expression it might be more acceptable. What do you mean? Are you suggesting it should be louder if you press harder? Quieter if tapped softly. That would just make them go unnoticed. A horn should always be as loud as possible to inform the arsehole that he failed to drive correctly. |
#230
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Stolen Bike
On Wed, 08 Aug 2018 21:13:27 +0100, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 9:00:43 PM UTC+1, Jimmy Wilkinson Knife wrote: I look forward to the day oil runs out and we go back to a simpler more natural way of living. What about my BP shares and pension? Why did you work for the evil oil company if you're a naturalist cyclist? |
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