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Bottle holder



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 21st 19, 08:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,330
Default Bottle holder

On 21/05/2019 20:53, Duane wrote:
On 21/05/2019 1:48 p.m., AMuzi wrote:
On 5/21/2019 12:26 PM, sms wrote:
On 5/21/2019 10:00 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

$12 for two straps?* That seems rather expensive.

It is. But a kluge of cable ties and associated bits and
pieces is not going to work as well and by the time you buy
all the parts you'll spend more time cobbling it together.

There are also the Zefal Gizmo clamps
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MSM1O1H and the Topeak Versa
Mount https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077S5G4SL.

Above all, don't use hose clamps! And don't drill holes in
the frame for Rivnuts.


At least wear a helmet because those Boeing machines with rivnuts are
going to fall out of the sky any time now:

https://www.asapaog.com/aircraft-part-types/rivnut/


Maybe Boeing wasn't the best choice for sarcasm.


Those are software rivnuts, not the hardware ones.
Ads
  #22  
Old May 21st 19, 08:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,628
Default Bottle holder

On 5/21/2019 2:15 PM, Tosspot wrote:
On 21/05/2019 20:53, Duane wrote:
On 21/05/2019 1:48 p.m., AMuzi wrote:
On 5/21/2019 12:26 PM, sms wrote:
On 5/21/2019 10:00 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

$12 for two straps? That seems rather expensive.

It is. But a kluge of cable ties and associated bits and
pieces is not going to work as well and by the time you buy
all the parts you'll spend more time cobbling it together.

There are also the Zefal Gizmo clamps
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MSM1O1H and the Topeak Versa
Mount https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077S5G4SL.

Above all, don't use hose clamps! And don't drill holes in
the frame for Rivnuts.

At least wear a helmet because those Boeing machines with
rivnuts are going to fall out of the sky any time now:

https://www.asapaog.com/aircraft-part-types/rivnut/


Maybe Boeing wasn't the best choice for sarcasm.


Those are software rivnuts, not the hardware ones.


Good point. Let's try not to secure our bottles with
algorithms; too risky.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #23  
Old May 21st 19, 09:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,070
Default Bottle holder

On Tue, 21 May 2019 10:26:46 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 5/21/2019 10:00 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

$12 for two straps? That seems rather expensive.


It is. But a kluge of cable ties and associated bits and pieces is not
going to work as well and by the time you buy all the parts you'll spend
more time cobbling it together.


What's there to cobble? Two saddle clamps and two cable ties. Quite
cheap and functional. I'll admit the exposed lumpy ends of the cable
ties do not meet the strict guidelines for elegant cycling, but they
are quite inexpensive, easily installed, and easily replaced. Cable
ties are viable in a variety of colors not found in nature. I believe
phosphorescent and glow in the dark colors are available.

There are also the Zefal Gizmo clamps
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MSM1O1H and the Topeak Versa Mount
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077S5G4SL.


Here's a better Zefal mount:
https://www.amazon.com/Zefal-Gizmo-Iii-Universal-Mount/dp/B01K7T2JOI
I like the two cable ties per clamp idea. I don't like installing the
screws from the bottle cage side. If the supplied screw is used, it's
not long enough to drill through the plastic base and gouge the paint.
However, substituting a longer screw is risky. I prefer using nuts on
the bottle cage side.

Above all, don't use hose clamps!


Yep. I have some minor scars on legs from the stainless strap.

And don't drill holes in the frame for Rivnuts.


Ummm... that's a religious issue. So far, no consensus or winner in
sight.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #24  
Old May 21st 19, 10:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,489
Default Bottle holder

On 5/21/2019 11:32 AM, sms wrote:
On 5/20/2019 5:21 AM, AK wrote:
I want to get a bottle holder for my bike.

It has no pre-drilled holes for the holder.

I found some that clamp on but not sure if they would work with the
wide tube that I would need to mount it to.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/llqwef4nym...71257.jpg?dl=0

Andy


Try these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EIEHEC

This web site may help you find a product that will work:
http://nordicgroup.us/cageboss/


And help SMS by giving him a little commission for his guerilla marketing!

From the site:
"I receive a small percentage of sales when you use these links. Thank
you to everyone that has been supporting these sites."


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #25  
Old May 22nd 19, 12:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 763
Default Bottle holder

On Tue, 21 May 2019 08:32:02 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 5/20/2019 5:21 AM, AK wrote:
I want to get a bottle holder for my bike.

It has no pre-drilled holes for the holder.

I found some that clamp on but not sure if they would work with the wide tube that I would need to mount it to.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/llqwef4nym...71257.jpg?dl=0

Andy


Try these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EIEHEC

This web site may help you find a product that will work:
http://nordicgroup.us/cageboss/


Well, your vaunted site, that claims to be an expert on rivnuts since
2002 is wrong in their statement that

"A properly installed Rivnut does not exert any stress on the inner
and outer walls of the tubing. The stress all radiates outward from
the splines of the Rivnut into the circumference of the hole.The
friction between the splines of the Rivnut and the hole keep it from
rotating."

There are some twenty, or so, different types of rivnuts today and a
number of them do not, in fact, have "splines" and they all do depend
on compression to resist torque loads and yes, some of them do have
added features to resist torque loads to a even greater extent.

You state that
"Without a machine shop, It would be very hard for someone to drill
perfectly sized holes, perfectly straight, and compress the Rivnut to
the exact optimum tightness. In a steel frame it's not a big deal if
it's not exactly right. In an aluminum frame it's a very big deal
because the integrity of the frame will be compromised. And even if
you managed to do it properly, you've still voided your frame
warranty"

To date, I have seen no evidence that you actually know what you are
talking about so please awaken us and tell us exactly what "machine
shop" features one requires to drill holes in a thin tube?

Oh yes! I quote from the "installation Instructions" of a major
supplier of "rivnuts" who says "These blind rivet nuts provide a
robust, versatile alternative to standard nuts and bolts. A low
profile design provides near-flush installation with no special hole
preparation required"

You might want to go into some detail about how rivnuts, that were
originally designed for and used on aircraft structures, are
installed? Do you actually suppose that an entire airplane is hauled
into some mythical "machine shop" to have a 1/4" hole drilled in the
wing.

In fact your entire site is simply one large exhibit of
miss-information, or to be less polite, "lies".

But, perhaps I am wrong so you might take the time to demonstrate that
you actually do know what you are talking about - with some reference
to keep you from telling lies, of course.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #26  
Old May 22nd 19, 12:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,628
Default Bottle holder

On 5/21/2019 6:26 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 May 2019 08:32:02 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 5/20/2019 5:21 AM, AK wrote:
I want to get a bottle holder for my bike.

It has no pre-drilled holes for the holder.

I found some that clamp on but not sure if they would work with the wide tube that I would need to mount it to.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/llqwef4nym...71257.jpg?dl=0

Andy


Try these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EIEHEC

This web site may help you find a product that will work:
http://nordicgroup.us/cageboss/


Well, your vaunted site, that claims to be an expert on rivnuts since
2002 is wrong in their statement that

"A properly installed Rivnut does not exert any stress on the inner
and outer walls of the tubing. The stress all radiates outward from
the splines of the Rivnut into the circumference of the hole.The
friction between the splines of the Rivnut and the hole keep it from
rotating."

There are some twenty, or so, different types of rivnuts today and a
number of them do not, in fact, have "splines" and they all do depend
on compression to resist torque loads and yes, some of them do have
added features to resist torque loads to a even greater extent.

You state that
"Without a machine shop, It would be very hard for someone to drill
perfectly sized holes, perfectly straight, and compress the Rivnut to
the exact optimum tightness. In a steel frame it's not a big deal if
it's not exactly right. In an aluminum frame it's a very big deal
because the integrity of the frame will be compromised. And even if
you managed to do it properly, you've still voided your frame
warranty"

To date, I have seen no evidence that you actually know what you are
talking about so please awaken us and tell us exactly what "machine
shop" features one requires to drill holes in a thin tube?

Oh yes! I quote from the "installation Instructions" of a major
supplier of "rivnuts" who says "These blind rivet nuts provide a
robust, versatile alternative to standard nuts and bolts. A low
profile design provides near-flush installation with no special hole
preparation required"

You might want to go into some detail about how rivnuts, that were
originally designed for and used on aircraft structures, are
installed? Do you actually suppose that an entire airplane is hauled
into some mythical "machine shop" to have a 1/4" hole drilled in the
wing.

In fact your entire site is simply one large exhibit of
miss-information, or to be less polite, "lies".

But, perhaps I am wrong so you might take the time to demonstrate that
you actually do know what you are talking about - with some reference
to keep you from telling lies, of course.



Are you telling me that aircraft rivnuts are assembled
without drilling letter D then carefully reaming to a very
round 0.25000"? A common 1/4" drill might be good enough
for warplanes but risky on a chinese aluminum bicycle!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #27  
Old May 22nd 19, 01:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,406
Default Bottle holder

On Tuesday, May 21, 2019 at 7:26:59 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 21 May 2019 08:32:02 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 5/20/2019 5:21 AM, AK wrote:
I want to get a bottle holder for my bike.

It has no pre-drilled holes for the holder.

I found some that clamp on but not sure if they would work with the wide tube that I would need to mount it to.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/llqwef4nym...71257.jpg?dl=0

Andy


Try these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001EIEHEC

This web site may help you find a product that will work:
http://nordicgroup.us/cageboss/


Well, your vaunted site, that claims to be an expert on rivnuts since
2002 is wrong in their statement that

"A properly installed Rivnut does not exert any stress on the inner
and outer walls of the tubing. The stress all radiates outward from
the splines of the Rivnut into the circumference of the hole.The
friction between the splines of the Rivnut and the hole keep it from
rotating."

There are some twenty, or so, different types of rivnuts today and a
number of them do not, in fact, have "splines" and they all do depend
on compression to resist torque loads and yes, some of them do have
added features to resist torque loads to a even greater extent.

You state that
"Without a machine shop, It would be very hard for someone to drill
perfectly sized holes, perfectly straight, and compress the Rivnut to
the exact optimum tightness. In a steel frame it's not a big deal if
it's not exactly right. In an aluminum frame it's a very big deal
because the integrity of the frame will be compromised. And even if
you managed to do it properly, you've still voided your frame
warranty"

To date, I have seen no evidence that you actually know what you are
talking about so please awaken us and tell us exactly what "machine
shop" features one requires to drill holes in a thin tube?

Oh yes! I quote from the "installation Instructions" of a major
supplier of "rivnuts" who says "These blind rivet nuts provide a
robust, versatile alternative to standard nuts and bolts. A low
profile design provides near-flush installation with no special hole
preparation required"

You might want to go into some detail about how rivnuts, that were
originally designed for and used on aircraft structures, are
installed? Do you actually suppose that an entire airplane is hauled
into some mythical "machine shop" to have a 1/4" hole drilled in the
wing.

In fact your entire site is simply one large exhibit of
miss-information, or to be less polite, "lies".

But, perhaps I am wrong so you might take the time to demonstrate that
you actually do know what you are talking about - with some reference
to keep you from telling lies, of course.
--
cheers,

John B.


That site that SMS linked to is just one of many reasons why anyone should take ANYTHING he says with a grain of salt. That's because he either outright lies or misrepresents data.

Cheers
  #28  
Old May 22nd 19, 01:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 763
Default Bottle holder

On Tue, 21 May 2019 10:26:46 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 5/21/2019 10:00 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

$12 for two straps? That seems rather expensive.


It is. But a kluge of cable ties and associated bits and pieces is not
going to work as well and by the time you buy all the parts you'll spend
more time cobbling it together.

There are also the Zefal Gizmo clamps
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MSM1O1H and the Topeak Versa Mount
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077S5G4SL.

Above all, don't use hose clamps! And don't drill holes in the frame for
Rivnuts.


Why ever not? Can you supply us with any evidence that installing a
rivnut, or two, significantly weakens a frame?

But lets figure it out.
Frank tells us that he is a PE which means that he has both the "book
learning" and the hands on experience to be an engineer so I'll leave
the actual calculations up to him.

Material
Columbus double butted Niobium alloy seamless tube (The most famous
Columbus round set)

SL Seat Tube
O.D. 31.7mm
Wall thickness - 0.5mm
Wall thickness at butt - 0.8mm
(Note: Butted end for installation in Bottom Bracket)

Material - Niobium is a special steel with Manganese, Chrome, Nickel,
Molybdenum and Niobium.
Mechanical Properties:
UTS: 10501150 MPa, Ys = 750MPa, Ap5 14%.

Project:
Two holes in tube to support bottle cage
Holes on 7 cm. centers
Fastener:
M4 x 0.70 Rivet Nut, Large Flange, Smooth Body
Recommended hole size - 6mm +0.1 - 0.0

Questions: (a) actual loss in strength in actual PSI/MPa and % of tube
strength lost, and (b) is this considered a significant loss in frame
strength?
--
cheers,

John B.

  #29  
Old May 22nd 19, 02:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 763
Default Bottle holder

On Tue, 21 May 2019 12:48:45 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/21/2019 12:26 PM, sms wrote:
On 5/21/2019 10:00 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

$12 for two straps? That seems rather expensive.


It is. But a kluge of cable ties and associated bits and
pieces is not going to work as well and by the time you buy
all the parts you'll spend more time cobbling it together.

There are also the Zefal Gizmo clamps
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MSM1O1H and the Topeak Versa
Mount https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077S5G4SL.

Above all, don't use hose clamps! And don't drill holes in
the frame for Rivnuts.


At least wear a helmet because those Boeing machines with
rivnuts are going to fall out of the sky any time now:

https://www.asapaog.com/aircraft-part-types/rivnut/


:-) Rivnuts were originally developed in 1930, initially to hold
deicing boots on the leading edge of aircraft wings so they have been
used on airplanes for, about 85 years, or more. Strange that there
hasn't been a deluge of airplanes :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #30  
Old May 22nd 19, 02:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 763
Default Bottle holder

On Tue, 21 May 2019 14:53:12 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 21/05/2019 1:48 p.m., AMuzi wrote:
On 5/21/2019 12:26 PM, sms wrote:
On 5/21/2019 10:00 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

snip

$12 for two straps?* That seems rather expensive.

It is. But a kluge of cable ties and associated bits and
pieces is not going to work as well and by the time you buy
all the parts you'll spend more time cobbling it together.

There are also the Zefal Gizmo clamps
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MSM1O1H and the Topeak Versa
Mount https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077S5G4SL.

Above all, don't use hose clamps! And don't drill holes in
the frame for Rivnuts.


At least wear a helmet because those Boeing machines with rivnuts are
going to fall out of the sky any time now:

https://www.asapaog.com/aircraft-part-types/rivnut/


Maybe Boeing wasn't the best choice for sarcasm.


Ah, but their airplanes don't actually break until they hit the ground
:-)
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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