Europe by bike & train: Folder vs. conventional bike?

OK, let's feed the daydream.

Some day I'll retire. I'd love to see Europe, self-guided, and of
course have my wife and two bikes along. But by that time, we may not
be willing to do (say) a month of 50 mile days. So the daydream is to
use the rail system for longish hops, then use bikes to explore cities
& countrysides from home bases in various countries.

Anyone care to comment on the advantages & disadvantages of folding
bikes vs. conventional touring bikes for that duty? The conventional
bikes are top quality Cannondale tourers. For folding bikes, I'd be
considering something from the better Dahons up to, say, Bike Friday
level.

I'm especially interested in comments from those with experience with
both types of bikes, i.e. folding and conventional.

- Frank Krygowski

I had a touring bike (not Cannondale but a comparable custom-built) for
ages. I sold it and now ride a KHS folder. Only about 100km on the folder
but my only "complaint" - if you could call it that - is the tires which are
semi-knobbies and need to be substituted with slicks. I don't feel
disadvantaged at all by the 20" wheels, geometry or anything else. If my old
touring bike was a Cadillac, this is a Jeep YJ.

I lived in Germany from '84-'89 and did some light cycle touring using
trains. Had a number of different bikes including an ancient, tank of a
folder (Peugeot perhaps).
While we didn't have any problems bringing full size bikes on trains, we
only did short hops - nothing where we needed a sleeper cabin - mostly day
trips. Rules may be more strict these days with the influx of immigrants
from former Eastern block countries. (it's certainly gotten more crowded)

I'll freely tell you I'm biased toward folders now and will likely never own
a non-folder again. I find they open up opportunities to do things you just
couldn't with a ful-size bike weighing you down and you never have to risk
it getting stolen because it shouldn't ever leave your sight. (I don't own a
lock for mine...)

I'm planning on cycle camping with mine this summer and will certainly post
photos and stories once I do. First attempt will likely be a 75km or so
one-way jaunt from my home to the campsite, a couple or three overnights and
back again. That'll be my dry run for longer trips.

Sorry I can't be more help.

I have some gratuitous bike p0rn for you though:
http://www.ncf.ca/~af895/bike/KHS.html
http://www.ncf.ca/~af895/misc/rack.jpg

Chris


wrote in message
ups.com...
OK, let's feed the daydream.

Some day I'll retire. I'd love to see Europe, self-guided, and of
course have my wife and two bikes along. But by that time, we may not
be willing to do (say) a month of 50 mile days. So the daydream is to
use the rail system for longish hops, then use bikes to explore cities
& countrysides from home bases in various countries.

Anyone care to comment on the advantages & disadvantages of folding
bikes vs. conventional touring bikes for that duty? The conventional
bikes are top quality Cannondale tourers. For folding bikes, I'd be
considering something from the better Dahons up to, say, Bike Friday
level.

I'm especially interested in comments from those with experience with
both types of bikes, i.e. folding and conventional.

- Frank Krygowski

C.J.Patten wrote:

I have some gratuitous bike p0rn for you though:
http://www.ncf.ca/~af895/bike/KHS.html
http://www.ncf.ca/~af895/misc/rack.jpg

Sort of feels like those Penthouse letters about amputees and stuff.

:-P

21 Jun 2005 21:30:46 -0700,
. com,
wrote:

The conventional
bikes are top quality Cannondale tourers. For folding bikes, I'd be
considering something from the better Dahons up to, say, Bike Friday
level.

If you can't get or don't want the S&S connectors in your present
Cannondales, I'd opt for the Bike Friday. The ones I've seen and
ridden the are most like real bikes.
Were speed of folding and portability my major concern, I'd fly to
Germany, buy Birdys and ride 'em from there.
--
zk

a écrit :

Anyone care to comment on the advantages & disadvantages of folding
bikes vs. conventional touring bikes for that duty?

You should go the way of the folding bike, before even thinking of ride
quality. Here in France the railway network pretends to be "bike
friendly". But studies have been done about what happens when you
actually try to travel on trains with a bike. It turns out that many
routes are not open to you, many trains are not open to you, many
scheduled hours are not open to you. The rules are so unclear that you
will be fined repeatedly or trapped into paying unannounced supplements.
Even the railway attendants and travel agents who sell you your ticket
will not be sure about what they are selling you. A trip that may take 3
hours without a bike may take 18 hours when trying to do it entirely
legally using only bike-allowing trains.

A folder, on the other hand, can be taken as luggage on any scheduled
train trip. The only limitation you may encounter is that it will indeed
have to be folded. Also, you may find that you want to travel next to it
in the baggage area of the corridor for fear that someone other than
yourself may walk off with it if you leave it unattended.

As for ride quality, I am far more comfortable over distances on my
Dahon Impulse P21 than on either of my full sized bikes, and on a recent
trip to the Netherlands bitterly regretted not having my folder with me,
so painful did I find the provided Gazelle touring bikes in comparison.

Elisa Francesca Roselli
Ile de France

"Bill Sornson" wrote in message
...

Sort of feels like those Penthouse letters about amputees and stuff.

:-P

LOL! Would you like a monthly column starring the lovely Ms. Westwood?

wrote in message
ups.com...

Anyone care to comment on the advantages & disadvantages of folding
bikes vs. conventional touring bikes for that duty? The conventional
bikes are top quality Cannondale tourers. For folding bikes, I'd be
considering something from the better Dahons up to, say, Bike Friday
level.

I'm especially interested in comments from those with experience with
both types of bikes, i.e. folding and conventional.

A few years back we were touring on a tandem in France. We ran across a
couple not on our tour on a Bike Friday tandem. We were comparing bikes,
and that couple did say that they wished they had a full sized tandem, as
they felt the smaller wheels made the less than smooth roads and hills
harder to handle. I would have guessed it would have more to do with fit
and gearing, but what do I know. On that tour there were two train legs.
The "singles" had no trouble fitting on trains, but these were in the Lot
valley, going short distances to Rocamador, in the fall. So it might be
different in areas with larger cities or in the summer. The tour guides did
not attempt to get the tandems onto the trains. For flying we uncoupled our
tandem, and were able to get it into two regulation sized pieces of luggage.
We had no trouble getting through airports, and no charges for oversized
luggage.

wrote:
OK, let's feed the daydream.

Some day I'll retire. I'd love to see Europe, self-guided, and of
course have my wife and two bikes along. But by that time, we may not
be willing to do (say) a month of 50 mile days. So the daydream is to
use the rail system for longish hops, then use bikes to explore cities
& countrysides from home bases in various countries.

Anyone care to comment on the advantages & disadvantages of folding
bikes vs. conventional touring bikes for that duty? The conventional
bikes are top quality Cannondale tourers. For folding bikes, I'd be
considering something from the better Dahons up to, say, Bike Friday
level.

I'm especially interested in comments from those with experience with
both types of bikes, i.e. folding and conventional.

- Frank Krygowski


It sounds like a great retirement plan!

I've not been to Europe for a decade (Ack!), but the last
time there, in Norway and in Finland, I recall seeing full-
sized bikes on the train with little problem. There was
plenty of room on the train in the car (and these were not
1st class cars) for a bike to sit. You could go up
against a full train already packed with bikes, though,
and then what would you do?

I suspect it varies greatly by country, however, as some
posters have alluded to.

scott

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Scott wrote:

I've not been to Europe for a decade (Ack!), but the last
time there, in Norway and in Finland, I recall seeing full-
sized bikes on the train with little problem.

In Denmark bikes are allowed on most trains and buses for a surcharge. No
ambiguity. On this site it will state yes or no:
http://www.rejseplanen.dk/bin/query.exe/en

There was
plenty of room on the train in the car (and these were not
1st class cars) for a bike to sit. You could go up
against a full train already packed with bikes, though,
and then what would you do?

Not a problem on trains there, but a problem on buses. One day I did a 100
kilometer ride. I ended up far from my base intending to take the bus back.
I did. But midway on the route a couple with two bikes wanted to get on.
There was only room for one other than mine. They were not at all happy and
much discussion ensued before they were left behind. And being Sunday
evening they probably had a two hour wait for the next bus.

Don www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

wrote...
OK, let's feed the daydream.

Some day I'll retire. I'd love to see Europe, self-guided, and of
course have my wife and two bikes along. But by that time, we may not
be willing to do (say) a month of 50 mile days. So the daydream is to
use the rail system for longish hops, then use bikes to explore cities
& countrysides from home bases in various countries.

Anyone care to comment on the advantages & disadvantages of folding
bikes vs. conventional touring bikes for that duty? The conventional
bikes are top quality Cannondale tourers. For folding bikes, I'd be
considering something from the better Dahons up to, say, Bike Friday
level.

I'm especially interested in comments from those with experience with
both types of bikes, i.e. folding and conventional.

- Frank Krygowski


The French National Railway (SNCF) imposes fairly stringent size
restrictions on bicycles on most, if not all TGV trains (Train a Grande
Vitesse, high speed long distance train). Basically the bike has to be
disassembled to the point where it will fit into a box of fairly small
dimensions. When I boxed my tourer in a bike shop cardboard box it was still
over the size limit, but I was allowed to take it on several trains with
only one conductor getting nasty. He let me take the bike on the train after
some ranting and raving. Some, but not all, local trains will accept
bicycles, but it's hard to cover very much of France on these trains.

If your train/bicycle touring plans include France there would be some real
advantages to a good folder.
--
mark