Cyclist shot in airgun attack

L'acrobat wrote:
Recoil that will take you off a bike with, say, a 9mm?

Not all pistols have huge recoil.

Recoil is fine when you're firing dead-ahead, but almost any amount of
recoil will tip you off if you're trying to fire broadsides on a pass.

I wouldn't want to fire anything bigger than a .22 singlehanded, and
firing two-hands while trying to balance no-hands is also not something
I'd like to do on a bike. Horses are significantly different because
they'll take active steps to keep you upright, unlike bicycles.

The only sort of gun I'd ever want to carry on a bike is a semi/full
5.56 rifle with the barrel inside a horizontal top tube, and a nice
long magazine in front of the seat tube (can you make a bullpup with
that little room behind the receiver?). Then you can take strafing
runs (similar to early airplanes) at cars, with known targetting (very
hard to miss) and about as much recoil as hitting a pothole or
speedbump. (10g * 600m/s = 6 kg m/s; given a body/bike mass of say
80kg, that's only a 2km/h slowdown per bullet.)

[Note to Stuart: haven't you ever seen
http://www.zippynet.com/pages/funny/autoweap.htm
? I would have thought it was compulsory reading in your profession.]
-A

"qtq" wrote in message
oups.com...

L'acrobat wrote:
Recoil that will take you off a bike with, say, a 9mm?

Not all pistols have huge recoil.

Recoil is fine when you're firing dead-ahead, but almost any amount of
recoil will tip you off if you're trying to fire broadsides on a pass.

Rubbish.




I wouldn't want to fire anything bigger than a .22 singlehanded, and
firing two-hands while trying to balance no-hands is also not something
I'd like to do on a bike. Horses are significantly different because
they'll take active steps to keep you upright, unlike bicycles.

9mm (as one example) is not a problem single handed.

Again, you vastly overestimate recoil force - if the force transmitted to a
horse (from firing a gun) was so great that several hundred kilos of horse
had to act to prevent tipping over, that force throw the firer off the
horse.

Didn't you people do ANY physics in high school?

I blame TV.


The only sort of gun I'd ever want to carry on a bike is a semi/full
5.56 rifle with the barrel inside a horizontal top tube, and a nice
long magazine in front of the seat tube (can you make a bullpup with
that little room behind the receiver?).

Yes, that is the point of a bullpup.

I'd happily fire an M16 left or right of axis, one handed (no accuracy, but
little recoil), short bursts you'd be fine.

Then you can take strafing
runs (similar to early airplanes) at cars, with known targetting (very
hard to miss) and about as much recoil as hitting a pothole or
speedbump. (10g * 600m/s = 6 kg m/s; given a body/bike mass of say
80kg, that's only a 2km/h slowdown per bullet.)

10 gram bullets? what sort of 5.56mm weapon are you thinking of? - the NATO
SS109 5.56 Round weighs 4.01 grams and muzzle velocity is 910 m/s.

L'acrobat wrote:
"qtq" wrote in message
oups.com...

L'acrobat wrote:
Recoil that will take you off a bike with, say, a 9mm?

Not all pistols have huge recoil.

Recoil is fine when you're firing dead-ahead, but almost any amount
of
recoil will tip you off if you're trying to fire broadsides on a
pass.

Rubbish.




I wouldn't want to fire anything bigger than a .22 singlehanded,
and
firing two-hands while trying to balance no-hands is also not
something
I'd like to do on a bike. Horses are significantly different
because
they'll take active steps to keep you upright, unlike bicycles.

9mm (as one example) is not a problem single handed.

Again, you vastly overestimate recoil force - if the force
transmitted to a
horse (from firing a gun) was so great that several hundred kilos of
horse
had to act to prevent tipping over, that force throw the firer off
the
horse.

Didn't you people do ANY physics in high school?

I blame TV.


The only sort of gun I'd ever want to carry on a bike is a
semi/full
5.56 rifle with the barrel inside a horizontal top tube, and a nice
long magazine in front of the seat tube (can you make a bullpup
with
that little room behind the receiver?).

Yes, that is the point of a bullpup.

I'd happily fire an M16 left or right of axis, one handed (no
accuracy, but
little recoil), short bursts you'd be fine.

Then you can take strafing
runs (similar to early airplanes) at cars, with known targetting
(very
hard to miss) and about as much recoil as hitting a pothole or
speedbump. (10g * 600m/s = 6 kg m/s; given a body/bike mass of
say
80kg, that's only a 2km/h slowdown per bullet.)

10 gram bullets? what sort of 5.56mm weapon are you thinking of? -
the NATO
SS109 5.56 Round weighs 4.01 grams and muzzle velocity is 910 m/s.

L'acrobat wrote:
Again, you vastly overestimate recoil force - if the force
transmitted to a
horse (from firing a gun) was so great that several hundred kilos of
horse
had to act to prevent tipping over, that force throw the firer off
the
horse.

It takes much less force to tip a cyclist over than a horse rider.

Ever had problems controlling the bike one-handed in gusty winds? What
about on a horse?

L'acrobat wrote:

"Tamyka Bell" wrote in message
...


Now how are those American ladies going to fire their weapons without
falling off their bikes? R-E-C-O-I-L...? If they have to dismount
anyway, it's probably too late... they might as well learn how to punch
and run.

Recoil that will take you off a bike with, say, a 9mm?

Not all pistols have huge recoil.

You watch too much TV.

I look at my TV, but all I see is me. It's not plugged in.

"qtq" wrote in message
ups.com...

L'acrobat wrote:
Again, you vastly overestimate recoil force - if the force
transmitted to a
horse (from firing a gun) was so great that several hundred kilos of
horse
had to act to prevent tipping over, that force throw the firer off
the
horse.

It takes much less force to tip a cyclist over than a horse rider.


Did you do any physics in high school? we are talking about pistols, not
light artillery.

the rider will receive the same piffling amount of force in both cases, the
mount doesn't need to compensate, in fact the horse won't even notice the
recoil, if the recoil transmitted was enough that the horse had to
compensate, then the rider would receive major injuries from simply firing
the weapon.

Remember you are talking about around 550kgs of animal and you think it has
to brace against that force? 9mm bullet = 8 grams, M/V = 381m/s - horse =
550kgs, how far do you think it will push the horse? it won't even push an
80kg cyclist on their bike.

Of course you are the one assuming that the only time you will be attacked
is ON your bike, in most cases an attacker - robber, rapist, idiot
assaulting etc will block your path or force you off the bike anyway.


Ever had problems controlling the bike one-handed in gusty winds? What
about on a horse?


No, I've not had any problems in either case.

Its also worth noting that "gusty" winds impart significantly more force
than a 9mm pistol, but keep trying.

qtq wrote:

L'acrobat wrote:
Again, you vastly overestimate recoil force - if the force
transmitted to a
horse (from firing a gun) was so great that several hundred kilos of
horse
had to act to prevent tipping over, that force throw the firer off
the
horse.

It takes much less force to tip a cyclist over than a horse rider.

Ever had problems controlling the bike one-handed in gusty winds? What
about on a horse?

Perhaps L'Acrobat has studied high school physics but no functional
anatomy?

I wouldn't carry a firearm on the streets because that would be f*&ked,
it's not a goddamn war zone out there, it's a beatiful world where most
people deserve to live and those that don't deserve to live, deserve to
be shown how to love their lives so that they do deserve to live, and I
may sound like a weird hippy (not confused with hippy) but HELLO do you
really want to go around shooting people? If someone nearly hits you so
you shoot their tyres out, what do you think they'll do next time they
see a cyclist? Make sure they're on target? Take
cyclist-target-practice?

What is with the violence obsession? I'm capable of beating the crap out
of people and I know it. But I've never struck someone on the street,
despite being held at knifepoint TWICE I was not scared and scared them
off instead. Yes, small female, scared off three men with knives, later
scared off a drug-crazed guy with a big rusty knife. Why? I didn't want
to take their **** so I didn't.

Carrying a firearm in civvy street does not make you powerful, it just
shows the world you've accepted you're a VICTIM. Cycle and be happy
instead.

T

"L'acrobat" wrote
Its also worth noting that "gusty" winds impart significantly more force
than a 9mm pistol, but keep trying.

What about some kind of RPG/ground-to-ground missile?
Reckon I'd have enough time after being put into the ground
to set it up and send a rocket down the road after the 4wd,
taxi, tradey, p-plater that gave me grief?
How accurate are they, considering the post-NDE adrenalin
rush? Why are you still arguing about bikes and recoil.. how
likely do you think this 'using a gun in a post-bike-road-rage
incident' really is?

hippy
NDE - Near Death Experience

L'acrobat wrote:

Remember you are talking about around 550kgs of animal

Since we are OT anyway.

How much (kgs) manure does a horse produce each day?
And how much does an elephant weigh?

SWMBO and I were watching the Jungle bit on ABC last night and both
caught the 45 figure, but I heard kilo and she heard tonne. Just
wondering if I should offer to take away the manure for free next time
the circus comes to town and weather I can do this by bicycle and
trailer {:-) (back on topic)

"Terry Collins" wrote in message
...
Since we are OT anyway.

How much (kgs) manure does a horse produce each day?
And how much does an elephant weigh?

"An average 1,000-pound horse produces 9 tons of manure
a year containing valuable fertilizer elements."
from: http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/livestk/01219.html

"An approximately 20-year-old Asian elephant cow weighs 3500 - 4500 kg
on average, and measures around 2.6 metres at the back. An elephant bull
weighs about 5000 - 6500 kg and measures around 3 metres at the back.
African elephants are larger and weigh more. An elephant cow measuring
around 3 metres at the shoulders will weigh around 4000 - 5000 kg.
An African elephant bull, however, weighs around 6000 - 7000 kg and
measures around 3.2 metres at the shoulders."
from: http://www.upali.ch/weight_en.html

SWMBO and I were watching the Jungle bit on ABC last night and both
caught the 45 figure, but I heard kilo and she heard tonne. Just
wondering if I should offer to take away the manure for free next time
the circus comes to town and weather I can do this by bicycle and
trailer {:-) (back on topic)

Tam's visiting? I didn't know she had elephants...

hippy
- should be doing something more productive than turd research