SYD: bicycles on the Old Road

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:51:25 +1100
ritcho wrote:

It's pretty natural to react differently when an accident claims a
close friend than some news report about people you'll never know. It

I think most people react on how important the activity is to them,
not on what happens to a friend. The friend is the excuse not the reason.

I have known people who have been crippled in car crashes. That hasn't
stopped me using cars, because cars are useful things. (And hasn't
stopped them either, think about that...)

I know people who have been crippled in motorcycle crashes, I myself
am not quite what I used to be. But that doesn't stop me riding bikes
because they are Way Too Much Fun.

I know people who have been hurt in bicycle crashes, although no one I
personally know has been killed on a pushbike. Again, doesn't stop me
because unpowered two wheelers are fun too.

Of course it may be that I think that most of one's own safety is in one's
own hands, and that anyone who is scared off doing something they like
because someone else got it wrong doesn't really like that activity,
or isn't confident in their own ability.

Which includes the ability to read the road and others and take control of
their own environment, not blame everything on the mysterious "other".
WHich is what most "I gave up cos Fred got killed" people do: "It's
too dangerous out there, all those idiots on the road". Rubbish!
Your safety's in your hands, not theirs.

If a week in hospital with my brains scrambled and a broken kneecap didn't
keep me off my motorcycle I dunno going to a funeral will. Especially
not one like Boky's which celebrated a damn good man's love of his bike.
It happened to him, it can certainly happen to me, but that's no reason
not to do what I enjoy. Never confuse breathing in and out with living.

Having fun is important to me. Bikes, either kind, are fun. Cars aren't
fun, but they are useful nuisances. I knew people who drowned while out
in small boats, doesn't stop me saying "**** yeah!" if offered a go.
Although I prefer the go to be on something that doesn't capsize on a
regular basis as these days I object to cold water taken externally...
But even playing with mud-on-the-mast boats is fun. Horses are fun,
although they too can kill and maim people, even if you aren't on top of
them racing across bush tracks at flat gallop. Or jumping 6 foot fences.

Everyone has their own idea of fun. Anyone who gives up fun because
someone else gets hurt wasn't having enough fun....

Zebee

"Trevor_S" wrote:

So if a friend was killed riding a bicycle you would give up bicycling ?
What if a friend and their _family_ were killed driving a car, would you
give up the car ? If a friend dies from chocking on a tomato, would you
give up tomatoes ? If a friend jumps off a cliff, would you.....

Whoah, whoah!!!! What a rash of options.

But I didn't have to _give up_ anything, as I was only 20 and had no
motorbike licence. It was really a moment for a reality check on what was
important to me at the time. Bike won, then I ended up buying a car later
for occasional longer trips (it was only a Moke so not a major environmental
disaster: and I know, not much safer than a motorbike, but hey, I've stayed
alive for another 27 years since then)

The question is really only rhetorical, simply because I don't understand
that mindset

I ride for pleasure and to comute on both my motorbike and my MTB. Do I
ride fast on my bike, no, that would be irresponsible, do I exceed the
speed limit, sure 'enuff, very regularly.

Sounds oh so similar to the attitude my brother in law had, and he was a cop
at the time. Speed limit?? What speed limit? But 160kmh down the city
freeway is not going too fast. I beg to disagree.

Cheers
Peter

"Theo Bekkers" wrote:
Peter Signorini wrote:

I drive a car because I saw a friend get killed riding his motorbike.
My personal view was that this was a more responsible decision for my
family and future children.

That's silly Peter. 1500 people died in cars in Oz last year, is that a
reason for you to stop driving?

No. But having a good friend mowed down by a crazy c#$t in a car (SMIDSY)
was enough to ensure I never took up motorbike riding. Speed of the
motorbike was a factor in this accident. He was new to motorbiking and did
like to hoon about. Riding the bike was a calculated risk for me, and you
know I think the road death data supports my view that riding a bicycle is
somewhat less risky than riding a motorbike. Not a lot, but a little.

Note also that I drive a Commodore, and I believe I drive it
responsibly. I have two kids, and we often take trips with camping
gear and bikes, so the space is valauble. Recently I have been
commuting 2-5 days per week so the Commode/Stinkadore/etc doesn't
clog the roads and air as much. I have often noted many disparaging
comments from posters here about Commodore drivers but, until now,
have not found it necessary to take them to task over any offence
caused to me.

Come on Peter, you can't drive a Commodore and not expect to get some
stick. From Falcon drivers if no-one else. :-)

Come on Theo, you can't ride a motorbike and not expect to get some stick.
From bicycle riders if no-one else. :-)

Cheers
Peter

Zebee asked -

What made you realise the reactions were slow? What tipped you off?

I guess we all do a bit of self evaluation as we go - was that manoeuvre
well or poorly executed, did I anticipate that cage jockey was going to cut
me off, did I see that pedestrian thinking about chancing a runner through
traffic?

Good riding on anything 2 wheeled is about anticipation and the way I
measure it is by asking is this relaxed, under control and fun, or is it
hairy scary and productive of angst.

I think how well you are taking the corners gives you the best feed back
because all your skills, balance and judgement come into play. You really do
know if your line is crap or you are not seeing and avoiding potholes etc
early enough.

Anyone can twist a throttle or push a big gear in a straight line for a
short while - you need to be a skilled rider unimpaired by recreational
pharmaceuticals to corner fast and well.

best, Andrew

"Peter Signorini" wrote

But I didn't have to _give up_ anything, as I was only 20 and had no
motorbike licence. It was really a moment for a reality check on what was
important to me at the time. Bike won, ...

Please note, when I say bike, I'm referring to the true article, the
bicycle, aka pushie :-)

Cheers
Peter

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 05:47:02 +0000, Parbs wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me if Random Dave would find a 50km nice and easy.
Provided you could prise him away from his bike.

I'm glad the Co-op was really full, or the last few ks of today's 70 would
have hurt.

I'll have to buy those texts tomorrow (given that the PO is half way to
Uni and they'll want a signature, it's not wort mail ordering)

--
Dave Hughes |
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it
flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come."
- Matt Groening

Peter Signorini wrote:

Come on Peter, you can't drive a Commodore and not expect to get some
stick. From Falcon drivers if no-one else. :-)

Come on Theo, you can't ride a motorbike and not expect to get some
stick. From bicycle riders if no-one else. :-)

Touche. :-)

Theo

ritcho wrote:

It's pretty natural to react differently when an accident claims a
close friend than some news report about people you'll never know. It
isn't correct from an acturarial point of view, but mixing death and
close friends tends to widen the gap between perception and reality.

I had a nephew (brother's boy) die when his motorcycle met a car on a crest.
The ancient Valiant contained no less than 12 indigenous Australian people,
a large percentage of whom were ****ed at ten in the morning.

What should I have learnt from that? What I did know that someone had to go
out to my brother's place and remove his guns from the premises.

Theo

On 2006-03-01, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
fun, but they are useful nuisances. I knew people who drowned while out
in small boats, doesn't stop me saying "**** yeah!" if offered a go.
Although I prefer the go to be on something that doesn't capsize on a
regular basis as these days I object to cold water taken externally...

The hot water in our shower at the uni has died.


Not fun at all.

--
TimC
I'm lost
I've gone to look for myself.
If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait.
--Dan in AFDA

Peter Signorini wrote:
"dave" wrote:

Peter it was me that had a go at you earlier btw, not Kathy. 'Think of
the children" is a pretty pathetic appeal to silly emotionalism .
"Think of my children" adds a fair amount of ego to it. "Think of my
future children" well sheesh...... And I know you didnt say others
must "Think of... " Some saving grace there.


Fcuk the emotional appeal. I was simply saying that I intended to grow old,
have some children and watch them grow up. Pretty simple really, and taking
up motorbiking didn't seem to fit in with doing that, IMO at the time.

It does but maybe not for you. But what I heard was "My future children
are so important that for their sake I will henceforth transport both
myself and them everywhere by Armoured Personal Carrier. (and stuff
everyone elses kids) For on their conception and future rest the fate of
the universe"


You always seemed a pretty sensible bloke to me. Havn't always agreed
with you but hey.. thats life.


Glad you think so. Most of my friends think I'm reasonably sensible - don't
know about the wife after I recently lashed out and bought a double kayak!

DOuble.. .hmmmmm thats pushing it.


But that was just sad.


You earlier described it as 'arrogant', now it's 'sad'. Don't see how those
two reconcile, myself.

Ohhh they so do. Arrogance without any justification is soooo sad.
Mohammed Ali can say "I am the greatest" and carry it off cos it just
might be true. Some 3rd rate thug can;t

I wasn't trying to be a prick and impose my values on
anyone else, and hey, I didn't hide under a rock and avoid life - kept
sailing yachts in storms and capsizing,
Doesnt everyone?

kept riding pushbikes in traffic,
Likewise
took up mountainbiking, cross country skiing, downhill skiing . Of all
things, I even went and got married and am now able to go on rides with the
whole family. Eg:
http://community.webshots.com/album/414615184QTHcLg


Er..... ok I spose.


Just my opinion
.. I,m sure you strongly disagree and their is no need to turn it into
a war but.. well...

And a common whore as well ...


Better to make it whoaagh! :-)


Hmmmmmm.


Dave