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RonSonic wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 03:37:04 GMT, wrote: I picked up some 2004 Veloce brakes and my bike currently has 1990'ish DA brakes. Would it be an upgrade or not to put the new Veloce on? Have brakes changed much in 15 years? I am not a skilled bike mechanic, so my priorities might be different. Newer, dual-pivot brakes have more leverage available, which really isn't an issue. They also aren't fussy to adjust for side-to-side symmetry, which might be an issue. That was alway my biggest brake gripe, getting them to open evenly on both sides. I agree. I went from Suntour Superbe in 1983, had a 20-year layoff from riding, and bought Veloce last year. What impresses me the most, though, is how effortless the braking is, even with hands across the tops of the hoods. /Robert |
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#12
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#13
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#14
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On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:34:48 +0100, "Pete Biggs"
wrote: If the DAs are single-pivot types, just replace the front caliper with Veloce (dual-pivot) to get more stopping power for the same force. However, single-pivots suit *rear* brakes better than dual-pivots. In fact people pay good money for Chorus Differential brakes to have that combination: dual-pivot front, single rear. ~PB Can you give more info on this? |
#15
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Dan Daniel wrote:
If the DAs are single-pivot types, just replace the front caliper with Veloce (dual-pivot) to get more stopping power for the same force. However, single-pivots suit *rear* brakes better than dual-pivots. In fact people pay good money for Chorus Differential brakes to have that combination: dual-pivot front, single rear. Can you give more info on this? Differences between dual-pivot and single-pivot brakes can be seen he url:http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/...x.shtml#brakes (Slightly confusing because Park use the term "side pull" to sometimes mean both single and dual pivot types and sometimes just SP, but differences are obvious from the pictures). Campagnolo "Differential" brakes: url:http://www.campagnolo.com/groupsets.php?gid=2&cid=10 url:http://www.campagnolo.com/pdf/en/2004_EN.pdf Advantages of single-pivot types: 1. Pads can be set further away from rim (for the same lever travel) -- more useful at rear because of greater wheel flex there. 2. Harder to lock-up accidentally. 3. Lighter. 4. Pads don't require adjusting as they wear. Disadvantages: 1. Trickier to centre (sometimes). 2. More lever force required -- but that shouldn't normally be an issue for rear braking. ~PB |
#16
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On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 02:46:42 +0100, "Pete Biggs"
wrote: Dan Daniel wrote: If the DAs are single-pivot types, just replace the front caliper with Veloce (dual-pivot) to get more stopping power for the same force. However, single-pivots suit *rear* brakes better than dual-pivots. In fact people pay good money for Chorus Differential brakes to have that combination: dual-pivot front, single rear. Can you give more info on this? Campagnolo "Differential" brakes: url:http://www.campagnolo.com/groupsets.php?gid=2&cid=10 url:http://www.campagnolo.com/pdf/en/2004_EN.pdf I can't see any details from the photo. Looks like a dual pivot to me.... but that really isn't my question. Advantages of single-pivot types: 1. Pads can be set further away from rim (for the same lever travel) -- more useful at rear because of greater wheel flex there. Ok. Is this a real problem? Are racers rubbing brake pads in sprints? 2. Harder to lock-up accidentally. So one can 'slam on the brakes' with equal force on the front and rear lever with less concern over a rear wheel skid? I thought that a big part of a rear wheel skid is lifting from the ground because of the weight shift forward under front braking. 3. Lighter. Sure, why not? The Campy site says 40 grams. 4. Pads don't require adjusting as they wear. And because the rear brakes are less effective, more pad wear occurs no matter what. So in a low-maintenance situation, this makes sense. Disadvantages: 1. Trickier to centre (sometimes). But you can leave the pads further away, so centering is less critical!! Anyway, I would hope that someone who knows enough to want two types of brakes front and back can figure out how to center a brake. 2. More lever force required -- but that shouldn't normally be an issue for rear braking. And it lessens the chance of lockup, so it's actually an advantage, yes? So in a way, both of the disadvantages are pretty minor. Anyway, what I am really after is an explanation of the advantages of a single pivot brake on the rear compared to a dual pivot brake. Is it simply 40 grams of weight combined with the rear wheel being less important in braking, or is there more to the idea of putting a single pivot in back and a dual pivot in front? Sorry if I am missing the point of your plus/minus listing above. Maybe a simple sentence or two explanation? Thanks. |
#17
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Dan Daniel wrote:
Advantages of single-pivot types: 1. Pads can be set further away from rim (for the same lever travel) -- more useful at rear because of greater wheel flex there. Ok. Is this a real problem? Are racers rubbing brake pads in sprints? It is a real annoyance for me. Dual-pivots require minimal pad clearance to work comfortably, ie. without having to move lever a long way before it does anything. In order to have a DP rear working to my satisfaction, the pads have to be very close, meaning centering and wheel trueness is highly critical. This is a PITA. Then the rim rubs as the wheel flexes! Racers have been known to undo rear brake quick-releases on climbs because of rubbing. I'm sure many people get round the problem by having more pad clearance but the extra lever travel required doesn't feel ergonomical to me. 2. Harder to lock-up accidentally. So one can 'slam on the brakes' with equal force on the front and rear lever with less concern over a rear wheel skid? That's one aspect, although you can just to use more front brake instead. I thought that a big part of a rear wheel skid is lifting from the ground because of the weight shift forward under front braking. Sometimes you want to use the rear brake as much or more than the front, say on loose or slippery surfaces. I find it all too easy to skid the rear tyre with a DP. Disadvantages: 1. Trickier to centre (sometimes). But you can leave the pads further away, so centering is less critical!! Anyway, I would hope that someone who knows enough to want two types of brakes front and back can figure out how to center a brake. 2. More lever force required -- but that shouldn't normally be an issue for rear braking. And it lessens the chance of lockup, so it's actually an advantage, yes? Yes indeed for rear braking if all is well. Some users claim they can't lock up their rear brake even if they tried and actually want stronger rear brakes than they have now, so /some/ people on some bikes may not want less rear braking "power". I was also thinking about the disadvantages for front brakes, while we're on the subject. So in a way, both of the disadvantages are pretty minor. Absolutely, which is why I'm not bothered by them and use an SP rear on my road bike. I like to point out disadvantages just to be fair, sorry if they confused you. Anyway, what I am really after is an explanation of the advantages of a single pivot brake on the rear compared to a dual pivot brake. Explained above. Is it simply 40 grams of weight combined with the rear wheel being less important in braking, or is there more to the idea of putting a single pivot in back and a dual pivot in front? Sorry if I am missing the point of your plus/minus listing above. Maybe a simple sentence or two explanation? Thanks. For me, the advantage is a brake that requires less fussy adjustment and provides braking that is easier to control and just feels better. The weight saving is a mere bonus (although I put it in front of pad adjustment due to wear in my list because I don't mind adjusting pads once in a blue moon). Campagnolo emphasise the weight difference more, however. I started off with a pair of Avanti dual-pivots, then replaced the rear caliper with an older single-pivot version of the same model, on the same bike, so I am comparing "like with like". ~PB |
#18
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On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 14:48:50 +0100, "Pete Biggs"
wrote: I started off with a pair of Avanti dual-pivots, then replaced the rear caliper with an older single-pivot version of the same model, on the same bike, so I am comparing "like with like". ~PB Thanks for the explanations. Makes more sense this time around. I appreciate your patience. |
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