OT - Beer

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Peter Cole wrote:
A Muzi wrote:
still just me may have said:
Let's see: massive recession with stagflation and credit markets
tumbling, $700b pointless war continuing, imported labor (direct and
indirect) eliminating most US based jobs, the Constitution and Bill of
Rights apparently no longer observed... no matter who we elect, at
least it can't get much worse.

Werehatrack wrote:
Au contraire. IMO, it can and it will, regardless of who wins. The
real question is whether we will elect another Hoover who, oblivious
to the concerns of the people whose plight he (or she) does not truly
understand or actually care about, will do nothing effective to start
making the significant changes that will be needed to build the base
for a less wasteful, more responsible future. And make no mistake;
digging out of the mess will take more than 8 years.

Or another Roosevelt who can take a minor dip and make all-time horrible
suffering and destitution of it.
You'd expect more of Bernanke - he wrote on this specifically. But no.

Yes, he did, He's a smart guy, and apparently the Great Depression is one
of his favorite subjects, but he blamed the Federal Reserve, not the
president:

Bernanke from:
http://foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3272

"A closer look reveals that the economic repercussions of a stock market
crash depend less on the severity of the crash itself than on the
response of economic policymakers, particularly central bankers. After
the 1929 crash, the Federal Reserve mistakenly focused its policies on
preserving the gold value of the dollar rather than on stabilizing the
domestic economy. By raising interest rates to protect the dollar,
policymakers contributed to soaring unemployment and severe price
deflation. The U.S. central bank only compounded its mistake by failing
to counter the collapse of the country’s banking system in the early
1930s; bank failures both intensified the monetary squeeze (since bank
deposits were liquidated) and sparked a credit crunch that hurt consumers
and small firms in particular. Without these policy blunders by the
Federal Reserve, there is little reason to believe that the 1929 crash
would have been followed by more than a moderate dip in U.S. economic
activity."

Mistakes and blunders by the Federal Reserve? I do not believe it for a
second. What happened was for a purpose, and a small group of the elite
profited very handsomely from the suffering of others, by being able to
buy assets for pennies on the dollar.

The above remark by the liberal-socialist-communist ideologue Tom Sherman is
totally insane of course!

Another important factor:

"The Hawley-Smoot Tariff (or Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act) was signed into law
on June 17, 1930, and raised U.S. tariffs on over 20,000 imported goods
to record levels, and, in the opinion of most economists, worsened the
Great Depression. Economists have now generally regarded this Tariff Act
(i.e., tax increase on imported goods) as the greatest policy blunder in
American economic history, coming as it did after the 1929-30 recession
and preventing the economy from a full, natural recovery which had
already started by the Spring, 1930."

"The act pioneered by Senator Reed Smoot, a Republican from Utah, and
Representative Willis C. Hawley, a Republican from Oregon. President
Herbert Hoover had asked Congress for a downward revision in rates, but
Congress raised rates instead. While many economists urged a veto, Hoover
signed the bill. Hoover had, during the 1928 campaign, pledged to help
beleaguered farmers by, among other things, raising tariff levels on
agricultural products."

"Milton Friedman, leader of the Chicago School, argued that the Federal
Reserve System did not cause the Great Depression, but made it worse by
contracting the money supply at the very moment that markets needed
liquidity. Since its entire existence was predicated on its mission to
prevent events like the Great Depression, it had failed in what the 1913
bill tried to enact.[58] Friedman explains his hypothesis on the cause of
The Great Depression and the role the Federal Reserve played in it in his
book and documentary series "Free to Choose". An excerpt of his
hypothesis:"

The Federal Reserve and other similar banks were created to take control
of the economy from the elected representatives of the people (or other
political leadership) and put in the hands of a few hundred fantastically
wealthy people.

The above remark by the liberal-socialist-communist ideologue Tom Sherman is
totally insane of course!

""Why didn't this system prevent The Great Depression after 1929? Because
from 1929 to 1930 after the stock market crashed, the Federal Reserve
system allowed the quantity of money to decline slowly thereby throttling
the monetary structure...If the Federal Reserve had stepped in, bought
government securities on a large scale, provided the cash, the depositors
would have found that they could've got their money and they would have
stopped asking for it.. Instead, believe it or not, the system stood idly
by while banks crashed on all sides. ""

"This is also the current conventional wisdom on the matter, as both Ben
Bernanke and other economists such as the late John Kenneth
Galbraith--the latter being an ardent Keynesian--have upheld this
reasoning."

"The Federal Reserve, by design, is not controlled by the President or
the U.S. Treasury; it is primarily controlled and owned by its member
banks and the chairman of the Federal Reserve."

Indeed. The last US President to challenge the undemocratic Federal
Reserve was Kennedy, and he died a violent death before completing his
term. Coincidence?

The above remark by the liberal-socialist-communist ideologue Tom Sherman is
totally insane of course!

Your guru Hayek blamed the Great Depression on the inflationary boom
cycle of the 20's, which he thought made the Depression inevitable.

There you have it: 3 Republican administrations (Harding, Coolidge,
Hoover), a bubble market (unregulated stock market), no organized labor
or social welfare system and the greatest man-made catastrophe in
American peacetime. "Laissez-faire" boom/bust* and the little guy
starves.

The system does not exist to serve the little guy - Alan Greenspan even
admitted as much.

At last, Tom Sherman comes to his senses! The little guy has no money and
therefore no need of banks. The little guy should not try to buy anything
until he has some money. All he has to do is to save it instead of spending
it all on bad whiskey and loose women.
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Andrew Muzi wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
It almost make one wish for a Republican president, so they can deal
with the mess they created. Of course, we may well have two
Republicans running for office this year.

Besides the 3 lefties of the 2 major parties, who did you have in mind?

All three contending major party candidates have positions to the
political right of the right-wing European parties. Crony capitalism is
alive and well.

The only real conservative among all the candidates this year is Ron
Paul. All the rest of the Republicans (including $Hillary) are regressives.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:16:20 -0600, "Edward Dolan"
wrote:


"Bill Z." wrote in message
...
"Edward Dolan" writes:

"Hank" wrote in message
...

Not true. While in Indonesia, he went to two schools: one was a public
secular one, the other was Catholic. It is true that at the public
school, most of his classmates were Muslim, but it was not a Muslim
school.

Is B. Hussein Obama then a Roman Catholic?

What do you make of the following information?

"Investigations have shown that Obama's father and stepfather were devout
Islamics. Both faithfully practiced their religion. snip

What I'd make of it is that you are an idiot for even thinking it is
credible enough to post, or a mindless troll if you know better.

Just presenting a few facts for you and your ilk to mull over! B. Hussein
has a profoundly serious Muslim background. Is this not relevant? Only in a
****ed-up state like Minnesota do we elect a Muslim representative to
Congress.

We have a presidential election coming up, and we really need to elect
a highly capable person to fix the mess made by the current
administration. Why don't you try to do the country a favor and
treat it as a serious matter and not resort to adolescent innuendo?

Bush was quite right to take us to war in Iraq. However, the war was badly
managed because we Americans are not nearly ruthless enough. It takes a Nazi
or a Communist to know how to treat a conquered populace. Attila the Hun is
never around when he is needed. Tamerlane would have known what to do about
the situation as well as the Mongol Khans.

Since Iraq needs a government, and it's too much trouble to impeach
Bush & Cheney, I suggest that we "donate" them to Iraq. No deposit, no
return.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Andrew Muzi wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
It almost make one wish for a Republican president, so they can deal
with the mess they created. Of course, we may well have two Republicans
running for office this year.

Besides the 3 lefties of the 2 major parties, who did you have in mind?

All three contending major party candidates have positions to the
political right of the right-wing European parties. Crony capitalism is
alive and well.

No one really knows yet just how far left B. Hussein is. He may well be
another McGovern, only worse!

Mr. Sherman needs to emigrate to France where he could delight in
criticizing America along with them. Of course he would soon discover that
France is no paradise either.

The only real conservative among all the candidates this year is Ron Paul.
All the rest of the Republicans (including $Hillary) are regressives.

Ron Paul was a Dodo Bird who worshipped the Constitution. The Constitution
is a mere scrap of paper which should not be allowed to get in the way of
the progress and security of the nation.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Tom Sherman wrote:
All three contending major party candidates have positions to the
political right of the right-wing European parties. Crony capitalism is
alive and well.
The only real conservative among all the candidates this year is Ron
Paul. All the rest of the Republicans (including $Hillary) are regressives.

I've actually voted for him in a previous election.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew Muzi wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
All three contending major party candidates have positions to the
political right of the right-wing European parties. Crony capitalism
is alive and well.
The only real conservative among all the candidates this year is Ron
Paul. All the rest of the Republicans (including $Hillary) are
regressives.

I've actually voted for him in a previous election.

While I disagree with many of Ron Paul's policies, I can at least
respect him for being a true conservative, and not one of the tax cut
AND spend crony capitalist regressive radicals that have taken over the
Republican party and turned it into something that Barry Goldwater would
not recognize.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:08:00 -0600, A Muzi
wrote:

Tom Sherman wrote:
All three contending major party candidates have positions to the
political right of the right-wing European parties. Crony capitalism is
alive and well.
The only real conservative among all the candidates this year is Ron
Paul. All the rest of the Republicans (including $Hillary) are regressives.

I've actually voted for him in a previous election.

He's the first human being to run for the office since Jimmy Carter.
--
zk

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Andrew Muzi wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
All three contending major party candidates have positions to the
political right of the right-wing European parties. Crony capitalism is
alive and well.
The only real conservative among all the candidates this year is Ron
Paul. All the rest of the Republicans (including $Hillary) are
regressives.

I've actually voted for him in a previous election.

While I disagree with many of Ron Paul's policies, I can at least respect
him for being a true conservative, and not one of the tax cut AND spend
crony capitalist regressive radicals that have taken over the Republican
party and turned it into something that Barry Goldwater would not
recognize.

I respect Ron Paul for being a true nut! Barry Goldwater was also a nut and
not fit to be president. Johnson made him look like the jackass that he was.
But Hells Bells, we all KNOW Tom Sherman was deluded enough to vote for
McGovern. He was from South Dakota and quite up to the mark of our Minnesota
liberals. Every time I think of Humphrey, Mondale and Eugene McCarthy I get
sick to my stomach and want to puke. Now old Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin
was another matter altogether! God rest his patriotic soul.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Zoot Katz" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:08:00 -0600, A Muzi
wrote:

Tom Sherman wrote:
All three contending major party candidates have positions to the
political right of the right-wing European parties. Crony capitalism is
alive and well.
The only real conservative among all the candidates this year is Ron
Paul. All the rest of the Republicans (including $Hillary) are
regressives.

I've actually voted for him in a previous election.

He's the first human being to run for the office since Jimmy Carter.

Ron Paul was almost as big a jackass as Jimmy Carter, not only our worst
president, but our worst president out of office ever! I just hope I live
long enough to be able to **** on his grave!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Andrew Muzi wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote:
All three contending major party candidates have positions to the
political right of the right-wing European parties. Crony capitalism is
alive and well.
The only real conservative among all the candidates this year is Ron
Paul. All the rest of the Republicans (including $Hillary) are
regressives.
I've actually voted for him in a previous election.
While I disagree with many of Ron Paul's policies, I can at least respect
him for being a true conservative, and not one of the tax cut AND spend
crony capitalist regressive radicals that have taken over the Republican
party and turned it into something that Barry Goldwater would not
recognize.

I respect Ron Paul for being a true nut! Barry Goldwater was also a nut and
not fit to be president. Johnson made him look like the jackass that he was.
But Hells Bells, we all KNOW Tom Sherman was deluded enough to vote for
McGovern.

Mr. Ed Dolan is a little bit off. I was not born for McGovern's first
presidential campaign, and not of legal voting age for the other two.

He was from South Dakota and quite up to the mark of our Minnesota
liberals. Every time I think of Humphrey, Mondale and Eugene McCarthy I get
sick to my stomach and want to puke. Now old Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin
was another matter altogether! God rest his patriotic soul.

Replaced by William Proxmire, whose idea of campaign spending was
postage to mail back unsolicited campaign contribution checks.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful