Are 15g alloy nipples thicker than 14g?

Does a 15g 12mm alloy nipple have the same outside dimensions as a
14g 12mm alloy nipple. Specifically by DT? The inference is that a
15g alloy nipple would be stronger because of a thick wall than a 14g.
alloy nipple. I've been to a couple of LBS and they don't have 15g
nipples that I can compare. Just curious.

On Jan 2, 10:50*pm, RS wrote:
Does a 15g 12mm alloy nipple have the same outside dimensions as a
14g 12mm alloy nipple. *Specifically by DT? *The inference is that a
15g alloy nipple would be stronger because of a thick wall than a 14g.
alloy nipple. *I've been to a couple of LBS and they don't have 15g
nipples that I can compare. *Just curious.

If the threads are not cut deeper (they are not), then it should be
pretty moot to weaker as there is less thread to distribute the load
over, making it easier to pull out. Besides, 14g alloy nipples are
easy enough to round off as it is, so a smaller spoke should not make
big different in nipple strength.

But to directly answer your question, I am pretty sure the 15g nipples
I used last were the same spoke wrench as the 14g ones.

Which gives us another thing to argue about on the Internet:
15g nipples are heavier than 14g nipples! OMG!1! Sl0wz0r!

Chris

RS wrote:

Does a 15g 12mm alloy nipple have the same outside dimensions as a
14g 12mm alloy nipple. *Specifically by DT? *

Yes. All 2.0 and 1.8mm spoke nipples I have ever seen from DT use the
same wrench.

The inference is that a
15g alloy nipple would be stronger because of a thick wall than a 14g.
alloy nipple. *

They are not "stronger" as in able to withstand higher tension or
build a stronger wheel, but they do take noticeably more wrench torque
before rounding off. At least that's the case with brass nipples.

If you must use aluminum nipples, my best advice is to lube them with
moly grease.

Chalo

On Jan 2, 11:50*pm, RS wrote:
Does a 15g 12mm alloy nipple have the same outside dimensions as a
14g 12mm alloy nipple. *Specifically by DT?

Yes. Same spoke wrench. Wall thickness is not an issue for chrome
plated brass nipps.

*The inference is that a
15g alloy nipple would be stronger because of a thick wall than a 14g.
alloy nipple. *I've been to a couple of LBS and they don't have 15g
nipples that I can compare. *Just curious.

On Jan 3, 12:25*am, Chalo wrote:
RS wrote:

Does a 15g 12mm alloy nipple have the same outside dimensions as a
14g 12mm alloy nipple. *Specifically by DT? *

Yes. *All 2.0 and 1.8mm spoke nipples I have ever seen from DT use the
same wrench.

The inference is that a
15g alloy nipple would be stronger because of a thick wall than a 14g.
alloy nipple. *

They are not "stronger" as in able to withstand higher tension or
build a stronger wheel, but they do take noticeably more wrench torque
before rounding off. *At least that's the case with brass nipples.

If you must use aluminum nipples, my best advice is to lube them with
moly grease.

They may be stronger in the sense that there is more metal on the
shaft, and it is more difficult to round off the wrench flats, but in
my experience, that just makes it more likely that you will shear off
the top. You can apply more torque to the shaft and get that lathe
action at the head, and then the head pops off with a loud crack.
Lubing probably helps, but I don't like being startled, so I just
don't use them. -- Jay Beattie..

Still Just Me schreef:
On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 08:14:05 -0800 (PST), Jay Beattie
wrote:

They may be stronger in the sense that there is more metal on the
shaft, and it is more difficult to round off the wrench flats, but in
my experience, that just makes it more likely that you will shear off
the top. You can apply more torque to the shaft and get that lathe
action at the head, and then the head pops off with a loud crack.
Lubing probably helps, but I don't like being startled, so I just
don't use them. -- Jay Beattie..

Why on earth anyone would use alloy spoke nipples...


Weight and some for the color.

Lou

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:50:23 -0800, RS wrote:

Does a 15g 12mm alloy nipple have the same outside dimensions as a
14g 12mm alloy nipple. Specifically by DT? The inference is that a
15g alloy nipple would be stronger because of a thick wall than a 14g.
alloy nipple. I've been to a couple of LBS and they don't have 15g
nipples that I can compare. Just curious.

Dear RS,

A) Maybe the same weights, just different rounding?

One company may call even hefty 14.9 gram spoke nipples "14-gram" to
emphasize the enormous weight savings.

Another company may call even light 14.5 gram spoke nipples "15 grams"
to emphasize how strong they are.

(Or neither company may care about the 1-gram difference, and both
would be astonished to hear that anyone else worries about it.)

B) Exterior dimensions? Longer flats reduce weight.

C) Interior dimensions? Longer unthreaded sections reduce weight.

D) Different alloys? A difference of ~15/14 is ~7%. One company may
use a less dense alloy for that crucial 1-gram difference, while
another prefers a denser but stronger or more corrosion-resistant
alloy.

(Or one stodgy company uses the same tired old alloy that they found
cheap back in the 1900s, while another hip new company uses a cool
cutting-edge alloy that doesn't wear out their tools as fast.)

MatWeb lists ~700 aluminum alloys for the 1xx through 7xxx series.

Aluminum density in grams/cc:

2.71 to 2.70 for 1xxx 0.4%
2.84 to 2.54 for 2xxx 11.8%
2.75 to 2.70 for 3xxx 1.9%
2.92 to 2.50 for 4xxx 16.8%
2.72 to 2.54 for 5xxx 7.1%
2.74 to 2.68 for 6xxx 2.2%
2.90 to 2.72 for 7xxx 6.6%

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 12:41:32 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:50:23 -0800, RS wrote:

Does a 15g 12mm alloy nipple have the same outside dimensions as a
14g 12mm alloy nipple. Specifically by DT? The inference is that a
15g alloy nipple would be stronger because of a thick wall than a 14g.
alloy nipple. I've been to a couple of LBS and they don't have 15g
nipples that I can compare. Just curious.

Dear RS,

A) Maybe the same weights, just different rounding?

One company may call even hefty 14.9 gram spoke nipples "14-gram" to
emphasize the enormous weight savings.

Another company may call even light 14.5 gram spoke nipples "15 grams"
to emphasize how strong they are.

(Or neither company may care about the 1-gram difference, and both
would be astonished to hear that anyone else worries about it.)

B) Exterior dimensions? Longer flats reduce weight.

C) Interior dimensions? Longer unthreaded sections reduce weight.

D) Different alloys? A difference of ~15/14 is ~7%. One company may
use a less dense alloy for that crucial 1-gram difference, while
another prefers a denser but stronger or more corrosion-resistant
alloy.

(Or one stodgy company uses the same tired old alloy that they found
cheap back in the 1900s, while another hip new company uses a cool
cutting-edge alloy that doesn't wear out their tools as fast.)

MatWeb lists ~700 aluminum alloys for the 1xx through 7xxx series.

Aluminum density in grams/cc:

2.71 to 2.70 for 1xxx 0.4%
2.84 to 2.54 for 2xxx 11.8%
2.75 to 2.70 for 3xxx 1.9%
2.92 to 2.50 for 4xxx 16.8%
2.72 to 2.54 for 5xxx 7.1%
2.74 to 2.68 for 6xxx 2.2%
2.90 to 2.72 for 7xxx 6.6%

Cheers,

Carl Fogel


Aaargh!

Sometimes it pays to think before getting lost in minutiae.

I mistook 14g and 15g for grams, not gauge.

Anyone who wants to tease me can use this link in the futu

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...f75ed1131c3ea3

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Jay Beattie wrote:
On Jan 3, 12:25 am, Chalo wrote:
RS wrote:

Does a 15g 12mm alloy nipple have the same outside dimensions as a
14g 12mm alloy nipple. Specifically by DT?
Yes. All 2.0 and 1.8mm spoke nipples I have ever seen from DT use the
same wrench.

The inference is that a
15g alloy nipple would be stronger because of a thick wall than a 14g.
alloy nipple.
They are not "stronger" as in able to withstand higher tension or
build a stronger wheel, but they do take noticeably more wrench torque
before rounding off. At least that's the case with brass nipples.

If you must use aluminum nipples, my best advice is to lube them with
moly grease.

They may be stronger in the sense that there is more metal on the
shaft, and it is more difficult to round off the wrench flats, but in
my experience, that just makes it more likely that you will shear off
the top. You can apply more torque to the shaft and get that lathe
action at the head, and then the head pops off with a loud crack.
Lubing probably helps, but I don't like being startled, so I just
don't use them. -- Jay Beattie..

I would think that hardness of the metal would be a factor in rounding
of the flats, not wall thickness. Even brass nipples get rounded off.

Carl Sundquist wrote:

I would think that hardness of the metal would be a factor in rounding
of the flats, not wall thickness. Even brass nipples get rounded off.

In my observation, 14ga brass nipples round before 15ga brass nipples
do. I think this is because the precipitating failure is the inward
crushing of the nipple wall.

When truing a stubborn wheel, I sometimes stop turning a nipple when I
feel it fail but before the wrench slips off the flat. When this
happens, I can observe that the formerly square part of the nipple has
been smashed into a more or less rhomboid cross-section. That's not a
failure of the wrench flat alone, but of the tubular structure of the
spoke nipple.

Chalo