Building a touring drivetrain

I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that will be on touring duty this summer,
pulling a Burley Nomad trailer thru Spain. Right now, I have a Shimano
600 series gruppo on the bike, with a 48-39 crankset up front and an
8-speed Shimano Hyperglide cassette in the back, all road parts. At
first, on the advice of a friend, I was planning on simply swapping the
rear cassette for a MTB cassette, perhaps an LX or XT one, and getting a
long cage rear derailleur. I talked to a guy at REI who has a lot of
touring experience about this, and he seemed pretty sure that I should
also change to a triple in the front. I don't have much money for
parts--I'm saving for this trip!--but I don't want to be SOL while on tour
in unfamiliar territory. So I'm considering buying piecemeal a whole new
drivetrain, including new shifters/brakes. I was wondering what would be
a good set-up, piece by piece? I want to remain at 8 speed, I've heard
it's a little more reliable and less maintenance than 9 speed, and I need
to have a bottom pull front derailleur for the cross frame. So far, I've
been thinking about something like: SRAM 5.0 11-32 cassette, Deore LX or
XT rear derailleur, Shimano 105 52-42-30 crankset. I don't really know
what bottom bracket/shifters/otheraccessories I need to get. So does
anyone have any recommendations for an (relatively) inexpensive 8-speed
drivetrain set-up that could take me happily through my trip? I've never
built a drivetrain before, so I'm sure there a number of smaller
components in it that I've failed to list; what are all the parts I would
need to replace moving from the current 600 set-up (including the
brake/shifters) to a touring triple cranket?

Dave Carroll wrote:
I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that will be on touring duty this summer,
pulling a Burley Nomad trailer thru Spain. Right now, I have a
Shimano 600 series gruppo on the bike, with a 48-39 crankset up front
and an 8-speed Shimano Hyperglide cassette in the back, all road
parts. At first, on the advice of a friend, I was planning on simply
swapping the rear cassette for a MTB cassette, perhaps an LX or XT
one, and getting a long cage rear derailleur. I talked to a guy at
REI who has a lot of touring experience about this, and he seemed
pretty sure that I should also change to a triple in the front. I
don't have much money for parts--I'm saving for this trip!--but I
don't want to be SOL while on tour in unfamiliar territory. So I'm
considering buying piecemeal a whole new drivetrain, including new
shifters/brakes. I was wondering what would be a good set-up, piece
by piece? I want to remain at 8 speed, I've heard it's a little more
reliable and less maintenance than 9 speed, and I need to have a
bottom pull front derailleur for the cross frame. So far, I've been
thinking about something like: SRAM 5.0 11-32 cassette, Deore LX or
XT rear derailleur, Shimano 105 52-42-30 crankset.

11-32 cassette has great big jumps between gears for road riding, and a
52T ring is far too big for that cassette for touring (52x11 is a monster
gear). I suggest fitting a "touring double" or a triple crankset first
with something like 34/50 or 26/39/50 rings, then later change cassette if
necessary to 13-28 or 13-30 or similar. Of course, exact choice of rings
and cassette depends on your speed/cadence/gradients, etc. It's certainly
worth experimenting with different gears as much as you can afford to.

I don't really
know what bottom bracket/shifters/otheraccessories I need to get.

Most of that will depend on choice of crankset - so I suggest deciding on
that and all ratios first, then come back and ask what parts best suit.
Hopefully, some or most of what you have already will.

~PB

I'd look at a Sugino XCD triple crank, and consider Ultegra 8 bar end
shifters. look for used brake levers.
Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY

"Pete Biggs" wrote in message
...
Dave Carroll wrote:
I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that will be on touring duty this summer,
pulling a Burley Nomad trailer thru Spain. Right now, I have a
Shimano 600 series gruppo on the bike, with a 48-39 crankset up front
and an 8-speed Shimano Hyperglide cassette in the back, all road
parts. At first, on the advice of a friend, I was planning on simply
swapping the rear cassette for a MTB cassette, perhaps an LX or XT
one, and getting a long cage rear derailleur. I talked to a guy at
REI who has a lot of touring experience about this, and he seemed
pretty sure that I should also change to a triple in the front. I
don't have much money for parts--I'm saving for this trip!--but I
don't want to be SOL while on tour in unfamiliar territory. So I'm
considering buying piecemeal a whole new drivetrain, including new
shifters/brakes. I was wondering what would be a good set-up, piece
by piece? I want to remain at 8 speed, I've heard it's a little more
reliable and less maintenance than 9 speed, and I need to have a
bottom pull front derailleur for the cross frame. So far, I've been
thinking about something like: SRAM 5.0 11-32 cassette, Deore LX or
XT rear derailleur, Shimano 105 52-42-30 crankset.

11-32 cassette has great big jumps between gears for road riding, and a
52T ring is far too big for that cassette for touring (52x11 is a monster
gear). I suggest fitting a "touring double" or a triple crankset first
with something like 34/50 or 26/39/50 rings, then later change cassette if
necessary to 13-28 or 13-30 or similar. Of course, exact choice of rings
and cassette depends on your speed/cadence/gradients, etc. It's certainly
worth experimenting with different gears as much as you can afford to.

I don't really
know what bottom bracket/shifters/otheraccessories I need to get.

Most of that will depend on choice of crankset - so I suggest deciding on
that and all ratios first, then come back and ask what parts best suit.
Hopefully, some or most of what you have already will.

~PB

Dave Carroll wrote:

I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that will be on touring duty this summer,
pulling a Burley Nomad trailer thru Spain. Right now, I have a Shimano
600 series gruppo on the bike, with a 48-39 crankset up front and an
8-speed Shimano Hyperglide cassette in the back, all road parts. At
first, on the advice of a friend, I was planning on simply swapping the
rear cassette for a MTB cassette, perhaps an LX or XT one, and getting a
long cage rear derailleur. I talked to a guy at REI who has a lot of
touring experience about this, and he seemed pretty sure that I should
also change to a triple in the front. I don't have much money for
parts--I'm saving for this trip!--but I don't want to be SOL while on tour
in unfamiliar territory. So I'm considering buying piecemeal a whole new
drivetrain, including new shifters/brakes. I was wondering what would be
a good set-up, piece by piece? I want to remain at 8 speed, I've heard
it's a little more reliable and less maintenance than 9 speed,

There is no difference in reliability or maintenance between 8-speed and
9-speed. If you're going to replace the shifters, I'd definitely
recommend going with 9.

and I need
to have a bottom pull front derailleur for the cross frame.

All "road" derailers are bottom pull, so that's a non-issue.

So far, I've
been thinking about something like: SRAM 5.0 11-32 cassette, Deore LX or
XT rear derailleur, Shimano 105 52-42-30 crankset.

That's not a terrific choice for touring. You're wasting gears on
super-high gears you'll get little use out of, and giving up useful
intermediate cogs that will give you closer spacing in the cruising
range. Also, it doesn't go down all that low, though if you're strong
enough and travelling light enough it may work for you.

If you're going with a 52 in front, there's no reson for anything
smaller than a 13 in back. I'd recommend something like my "Century
Special" (13-30) or "Cyclotouriste 13" (13-34) cassettes. I also offer
these ranges in 8-speed, but, of course, with wider gaps.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html

I don't really know
what bottom bracket/shifters/otheraccessories I need to get.

I'd go with 105 if you decide to stay with Shimano, though if it were my
own bike I'd go for Campagnolo Ergo brifters and some sort of
Campagnolo rear derailer, at least if I wasn't going bigger than about
30 in back.

Also, the 30 tooth small chainring is not wonderful for touring. We
commonly upgrade touring bikes with something smaller, most often a 26,
sometimes 24.

Sheldon "Not By The Book" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Oh, my ways are strange ways and new ways and old ways, |
| And deep ways and steep ways and high ways and low, |
| I'm at home and at ease on a track that I know not, |
| And restless and lost on a road that I know. |
| --Henry Lawson |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

11-32 cassette has great big jumps between gears for road riding, and a
52T ring is far too big for that cassette for touring (52x11 is a monster
gear). I suggest fitting a "touring double" or a triple crankset first
with something like 34/50 or 26/39/50 rings, then later change cassette if
necessary to 13-28 or 13-30 or similar. Of course, exact choice of rings
and cassette depends on your speed/cadence/gradients, etc. It's certainly
worth experimenting with different gears as much as you can afford to.

I don't really
know what bottom bracket/shifters/otheraccessories I need to get.

Most of that will depend on choice of crankset - so I suggest deciding on
that and all ratios first, then come back and ask what parts best suit.
Hopefully, some or most of what you have already will.

~PB

Who makes a good touring triple crankset? I don't want to pay a premium
for performance parts, I just need a good one for touring. Does the 105
come in that arrangement, or is there a good SRAM or Sugino one? I don't
have the cash th try out a bunch of these, so I'm looking for something
that one might find standard on a well-equipped touring bike. The 105
crankset that I was thinking about is on the trek touring bike, but I
don't want to get it if the 52-42-30 is too big.

"Dave Carroll" wrote in message
I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that will be on touring duty this summer,
pulling a Burley Nomad trailer thru Spain. Right now, I have a Shimano
600 series gruppo on the bike, with a 48-39 crankset up front and an
8-speed Shimano Hyperglide cassette in the back, all road parts. At
first, on the advice of a friend,

(Snip)

Ditto Sheldon's comments about going to 9, it really isn't any less durable,
though he can get you a custom 8 spd. 13-30 which will work well when
pulling a load. Aim for a gearing range of 20 gear inches at a low to a 100
high. Sheldon's site has a great gear chart to let you key in the variables
in ring sizes and cassette combo's to see what will work.

Sheldon's thought about Campy Ergo 9 spd. levers with a Campy R derailer
will work great, but may be a bit more expensive if you already own a set of
brake levers and don't need to buy another set. In that case, Ultegra 8
spd. barcons are the cheapest (and most reliable) solution.

Going to a Sugino 110/74 BCD triple crank is also a good solution and when
mated to a set of 24/36/46 rings and Sheldon's 8 spd. 13-30 cassette gets
you a 21 to 99 gear inch range, which would be perfect. You might need a
new rear derailer to handle the additional chain and the larger 30 tooth
cog, but my advice would be to call/e-mail Sheldon directly for some very
good advice.

Steve B.

In article ,
says...

"Dave Carroll" wrote in message
I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that will be on touring duty this summer,
pulling a Burley Nomad trailer thru Spain. Right now, I have a Shimano
600 series gruppo on the bike, with a 48-39 crankset up front and an
8-speed Shimano Hyperglide cassette in the back, all road parts. At
first, on the advice of a friend,

(Snip)
Going to a Sugino 110/74 BCD triple crank is also a good solution and when
mated to a set of 24/36/46 rings and Sheldon's 8 spd. 13-30 cassette gets
you a 21 to 99 gear inch range, which would be perfect. You might need a
new rear derailer to handle the additional chain and the larger 30 tooth
cog, but my advice would be to call/e-mail Sheldon directly for some very
good advice.

Steve B.

I tour with 26/36/46 with an 11/30 cassette. I like to pedal downhill
to keep up with the traffic sometimes so the 11/30 suits me better than a
13/30 although the closer ratios would be nice. I also agree that a 24
granny ring would be better for really steep stuff. I walked for a few
hundred meters up Arthurs Pass in New Zealand (22% I think) and I like to
kid myself that I would have stayed on the bike if I had a 24.

Dave Carroll wrote:
I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that will be on touring duty this summer,
pulling a Burley Nomad trailer thru Spain. Right now, I have a Shimano
600 series gruppo on the bike, with a 48-39 crankset up front and an 8-
speed Shimano Hyperglide cassette in the back, all road parts. At first,
on the advice of a friend, I was planning on simply swapping the rear
cassette for a MTB cassette, perhaps an LX or XT one, and getting a long
cage rear derailleur. I talked to a guy at REI who has a lot of touring
experience about this, and he seemed pretty sure that I should also
change to a triple in the front. I don't have much money for parts--I'm
saving for this trip!--but I don't want to be SOL while on tour in
unfamiliar territory. So I'm considering buying piecemeal a whole new
drivetrain, including new shifters/brakes. I was wondering what would be
a good set-up, piece by piece? I want to remain at 8 speed, I've heard
it's a little more reliable and less maintenance than 9 speed, and I
need to have a bottom pull front derailleur for the cross frame. So far,
I've been thinking about something like: SRAM 5.0 11-32 cassette, Deore
LX or XT rear derailleur, Shimano 105 52-42-30 crankset. I don't really
know what bottom bracket/shifters/otheraccessories I need to get. So
does anyone have any recommendations for an (relatively) inexpensive 8-
speed drivetrain set-up that could take me happily through my trip? I've
never built a drivetrain before, so I'm sure there a number of smaller
components in it that I've failed to list; what are all the parts I
would need to replace moving from the current 600 set-up (including the
brake/shifters) to a touring triple cranket?


You may want to visit the Rec.bicycles.touring forum. I suggest
mountain triple crank and a front derailer that has the arc that matche
the largest chain ring and a range that will handle the smallest chai
ring. A "matched set" of Front Derailer and Crank seem to give the bes
shifts under load. I woudn't go larger than 48; and I would like to g
down to 24 or 22. Cranks like Sugino XD2 46/36/24 or Shimano LX 44/32/2
work well when climbing with a touring load. You will need to get th
correct length Bottom Bracket for your Crank and Frame to give the bes
chain line. I would use Shimano bar end shifters for their simplicit
and ability to be used in the friction mode. The range of the cassett
you mentioned 11 - 32 should be fine with a LX rear derailer. 11 - 34 i
also good. I think that 9 speed is OK too, if you find that acquirin
parts is less expensive. Visit some of the sites that have tourin
information at URLs: http://sheldonbrown.com/touring/index.html and th
many links he lists http://www.bgcycles.com/ http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF
8&q=%22bicycle+touring+Spain%22 Also check out the little gadget I hav
found helpful of triple bicycles at URL: http://www.gvtc.com/~ngear/ Yo
mentioned REI in your post. A good shop with touring experience can als
guide you in your choices and make sure that things will work and hol
up well. Sheldon Brown's site has many great articles. Check the one o
cables at URL: http://sheldonbrown.com/cables.html I have no connection
with anything I mentioned here, except as a satisfied customer


-

Dave Carroll wrote:
I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that will be on touring duty this summer,
pulling a Burley Nomad trailer thru Spain. Right now, I have a Shimano
600 series gruppo on the bike, with a 48-39 crankset up front and an 8-
speed Shimano Hyperglide cassette in the back, all road parts. At first,
on the advice of a friend, I was planning on simply swapping the rear
cassette for a MTB cassette, perhaps an LX or XT one, and getting a long
cage rear derailleur. I talked to a guy at REI who has a lot of touring
experience about this, and he seemed pretty sure that I should also
change to a triple in the front. I don't have much money for parts--I'm
saving for this trip!--but I don't want to be SOL while on tour in
unfamiliar territory. So I'm considering buying piecemeal a whole new
drivetrain, including new shifters/brakes. I was wondering what would be
a good set-up, piece by piece? I want to remain at 8 speed, I've heard
it's a little more reliable and less maintenance than 9 speed, and I
need to have a bottom pull front derailleur for the cross frame. So far,
I've been thinking about something like: SRAM 5.0 11-32 cassette, Deore
LX or XT rear derailleur, Shimano 105 52-42-30 crankset. I don't really
know what bottom bracket/shifters/otheraccessories I need to get. So
does anyone have any recommendations for an (relatively) inexpensive 8-
speed drivetrain set-up that could take me happily through my trip? I've
never built a drivetrain before, so I'm sure there a number of smaller
components in it that I've failed to list; what are all the parts I
would need to replace moving from the current 600 set-up (including the
brake/shifters) to a touring triple cranket?


Sounds like you are asking for more ratiometric range for mountains

The 11/34 and MTB der will be a little better but slightly mor
expensive

Low cost crankset approach: Replace the 39T with a Willow Tripleizer
hang a granny, try it with you existing fder first but you probably nee
to go to triple fder

If you replace the crankset, consider a Schlumpf MT drive BB interna
gear hub- mounts 2 sprockets and has a 2.5:1 reduction low gear. Havin
a portion of your geartrain shiftable while stopped could be hand
touring, especially with a trailer

If the climbs are steep enough you need sub 25 g.i. ratios, the drop
are probably steep enough you need consider at least one hub based brak
with that trailer weight-plus it gives you a good rain brake


-

"Sheldon Brown" wrote in message
...
Dave Carroll wrote:

I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that will be on touring duty this summer,
pulling a Burley Nomad trailer thru Spain. Right now, I have a Shimano
600 series gruppo on the bike, with a 48-39 crankset up front and an
8-speed Shimano Hyperglide cassette in the back, all road parts. At
first, on the advice of a friend, I was planning on simply swapping the
rear cassette for a MTB cassette, perhaps an LX or XT one, and getting a
long cage rear derailleur. I talked to a guy at REI who has a lot of
touring experience about this, and he seemed pretty sure that I should
also change to a triple in the front. I don't have much money for
parts--I'm saving for this trip!--but I don't want to be SOL while on
tour
in unfamiliar territory. So I'm considering buying piecemeal a whole
new
drivetrain, including new shifters/brakes. I was wondering what would
be
a good set-up, piece by piece? I want to remain at 8 speed, I've heard
it's a little more reliable and less maintenance than 9 speed,

There is no difference in reliability or maintenance between 8-speed and
9-speed. If you're going to replace the shifters, I'd definitely
recommend going with 9.

and I need
to have a bottom pull front derailleur for the cross frame.

All "road" derailers are bottom pull, so that's a non-issue.

So far, I've
been thinking about something like: SRAM 5.0 11-32 cassette, Deore LX or
XT rear derailleur, Shimano 105 52-42-30 crankset.

That's not a terrific choice for touring. You're wasting gears on
super-high gears you'll get little use out of, and giving up useful
intermediate cogs that will give you closer spacing in the cruising
range. Also, it doesn't go down all that low, though if you're strong
enough and travelling light enough it may work for you.

If you're going with a 52 in front, there's no reson for anything
smaller than a 13 in back. I'd recommend something like my "Century
Special" (13-30) or "Cyclotouriste 13" (13-34) cassettes. I also offer
these ranges in 8-speed, but, of course, with wider gaps.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html

I don't really know
what bottom bracket/shifters/otheraccessories I need to get.

I'd go with 105 if you decide to stay with Shimano, though if it were my
own bike I'd go for Campagnolo Ergo brifters and some sort of
Campagnolo rear derailer, at least if I wasn't going bigger than about
30 in back.

Also, the 30 tooth small chainring is not wonderful for touring. We
commonly upgrade touring bikes with something smaller, most often a 26,
sometimes 24.

Sheldon "Not By The Book" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Oh, my ways are strange ways and new ways and old ways, |
| And deep ways and steep ways and high ways and low, |
| I'm at home and at ease on a track that I know not, |
| And restless and lost on a road that I know. |
| --Henry Lawson |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

If he might be replacing the whole drivetrain, what do you think of Dura Ace
bar ends with a friction option? That way the front can be set as friction
always and he has the ability to use friction for the rear should the need
occur.
Assuming he may buy all new, what do you think is the ideal touring set up
of gear sizes and equipment Sheldon?