London sees a different type of cyclist

On Dec 12, 3:33 pm, Miles Bader wrote:
Martin Edwards writes:
Regrettably, riding on the pavement is common in Birmingham.

Why is it regrettable? I mean, if bicyclists are bowling-over
pedestrians, than of course _that's_ regrettable, but it's not riding on
the sidewalk/pavement that's the problem per-se. The issue is really
not where they ride, but whether they ride in a manner appropriate for
the location, and whether the physical infrastructure can accommodate
them (e.g a very narrow, or very crowded, sidewalk/pavement might make
passing very difficult for anything but pedestrians).

I harp on this point, because here the majority of people around here
_do_ ride on the sidewalk/pavement (those who want to really ride fast
ride on the street, and of course the more crowded the sidewalks, the
more likely bicyclists are to choose the street), and it seems to cause
little problem -- and there are a _vast_ number of bicyclists here
(multiple orders of magnitude more, I'd wager, than wherever
TibetanMonkey is).

I'm American, and my personal instinct is to ride on the street, but
since I observe around me a very healthy bicycle culture that
successfully works otherwise, it can get pretty annoying seeing the
endless pronouncements from TibetanMonkey that such behavior is
evil/wrong/etc.

[Can it be annoying sometimes, as a pedestrian? Sure. But simply
instituting rules that go against a long-ingrained bicycling culture
would almost certainly be pointless -- people would just ignore them.
Instead, the government approach seems to be to widen sidewalks, which
is fine by me....]

Riding on sidewalks has a number of minuses:

1- It's not any safer than the road. My girlfriend has fallen on it
twice, either because it's narrow or uneven. Dirt can be a factor on
corners.

2- It creates dangerous conditions for pedestrians.

3- The practical speed is reduced in half to accommodate for
unexpected pedestrians and corners.

4- Corners are the most dangerous places on sidewalks, where cars
don't see you or ignore you.

5- Drivers just dismiss you.

6- Authorities will also dismiss and will never try to safer roads for
you.

7- Poles and signposts appear out of the blue, particularly when you
get distracted by pretty ladies.

ETC, ETC.

On Dec 13, 2:21 am, Miles Bader wrote:
"His Highness the TibetanMonkey, not your average backyard philosopher"

writes:
Riding on sidewalks has a number of minuses:

There are clearly cases where riding on the road is better. I'm not
saying that riding on the road is bad; what I'm saying is that there are
_also_ many cases where riding on the sidewalk works well enough, and
many people who are more comfortable doing so.

Yes, they need to be careful around pedestrians, and yes they should do
so in a way appropriate for the location (crowding, width, visibility,
etc) -- but there's not some kind of fundamental incompatibility.

I dunno why so many U.S. bicycling advocates seem to be such
control-freaks...

What's the advantage of riding on sidewalk over walking? A bit more
speed but a lot more aggravation. All that care, all that danger, all
that risk of getting the bike stolen. I think it's better to go back
to the hunter-gatherer and walk in the community.

I'd use the bike for longer distances but the roads are not ready for
me. Again, we need the cage on wheels.

On Dec 13, 10:16 am, "Mortimer" wrote:

The first traffic light in the UK was outside the Houses of Parliament in
1868. This predates cars, certainly of the internal combustion sort, even if
there were a few lumbering steam-driven cars before this which probably
could not go much faster than a cyclist.

Modern traffic laws may be written mainly for the benefit of motor vehicles
that can go faster, are less manoevrable and take longer to stop than
bicycles, but that's a reason for *all* road users to abide by them. If all
cars were taken off the road and only human-powered vehicles were pemitted,
I'm sure the laws coudl be relaxed considerably. But while ever vehicles
other than bikes are allowed, *everyone* needs to abide by the same rules,
both for reasons of safety and fairness.

Unfortunately a lot of cyclists think that because they are on two wheels,
this gives them the right to flagrantly disregard road laws, weaving in and
out of a stream of slow/stationary traffic, riding through red lights as if
they did not exist, riding straight through occupied zebra crossings (yes, I
have witnessed this personally on two occasions - on one occasion the
cyclist collided with a woman on the crossing and then tried to attack the
victim for "causing him to fall off and hurt himself", until my mate who was
built like a brick ****house "persuaded" him that this was not a good idea
and held onto him until the police arrived).

Because of this, they can be a hazard to other road users who have to look
out for cyclists doing things that no other road user does. That is why some
people think that cyclists who behave this way (as opposed to the
law-abiding responsible ones) should be kept off the road on a properly
segregated pavement.

Reality is our system is designed to facilitate the mindless consumer/
polluter and punish the smart cyclist/pedestrian. It's rage by the
machine against the human being. Those first cars were still human --
all open and slow-- but they developed into cages with a life of their
own. Not that it made life much easier for the user. Our obesity rates
--America and the UK-- are first and second place in the world...

What would happen if the automobile industry crashes and so many
people are laid off? The same could be argued about the Military-
Industrial Complex, the Medical Industry or the Prison Industry.

You know about the laws of cause and effect?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity

(It may be a jungle out there, but we are trying to fix OUR COMMUNITY.
Remember, BIKE LOCALLY, BUY LOCALLY is the byword)

Originally Posted by Jess View Post
Monkey, I am all for bike lanes. But I don't think that will solve the
real issue which is bad drivers in Miami not respecting the bike
riders. I got knocked off my bike for the first time last week and you
know, not one person who saw came to help. It was like being in NYC.
No one stopped. I didn't ride my bike for a week after that, and now I
am even more careful.

As for Paul, as Carlos says, it's on Lincoln Oh, and it is actually
French and I don't recall ever seeing one in London.

And back to the original post, London has the deco bike system all set
up and it works like a charm I hear. Let's hope it does well in Miami
if it ever decides to start. It should have begun in August.

***

Thanks for your feedback. Regrettably hit-and-runs are everyday
occurrence. You were lucky not to be badly hurt and abandoned, and
that's my worst fear.

The belated bicycle plan will work if we make Miami Beach a different
place from Miami, which is not easy. We must create a BICYCLE CULTURE
and dedicate bike lanes along main streets including the causeways,
which are no-man's land except for Venetian causeway which has a lane.
What could be more refreshing than a nice bike ride on our beautiful
causeways? I had a dangerous confrontation with a driver on the 96th
st causeway over the right to the road, and the signs mandate you to
walk a bicycle on sidewalk over the bridge. Hey, when you bump into so
many dangers, you must re-evaluate your survival strategy.

I hear the City has a place for feedback (?) and we can offer our
humble suggestions there. Maybe nobody of relevance is reading these
forums.

Sorry I have to say this, which is confirmed by the British
underground agents...

The last fun, humane cars were the British roadsters. It's not to say
they were reliable, but hey they weren't a cage. Now we have the
Miata, but mostly we have the SUVs which make life very miserable to
the Miatas.

Further, I have evidence that the British 3 speed bicycle is the most
successful leisure riding machine ever to hit the roads. It was copied
by India and China as a testament to their endurance and appeal, but
even there is now under attack...

Now we live under the prosperity brought by Globalization and drive
big cages on wheels with tinted windows as if hiding our true
identity. The question, do we have an identity nowadays?

http://i.pbase.com/g6/27/593927/2/85721013.ItcYXbMP.jpg

See, the guy is not anonymous and has a smile. Probably you can tell
him apart from any other guy out there.

But my British style leisure riding machine, with adaptations, is the
ultimate ride. It's sitting in a storage, but it may be coming out if
"conditions" allow.

That was my wisdom for the day, right from the cage.

On Dec 13, 2:45*am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the mundane
prophet of the last days before the end of times"
wrote:
On Dec 12, 3:33 pm, Miles Bader wrote:



Martin Edwards writes:
Regrettably, riding on the pavement is common in Birmingham.

Why is it regrettable? *I mean, if bicyclists are bowling-over
pedestrians, than of course _that's_ regrettable, but it's not riding on
the sidewalk/pavement that's the problem per-se. *The issue is really
not where they ride, but whether they ride in a manner appropriate for
the location, and whether the physical infrastructure can accommodate
them (e.g a very narrow, or very crowded, sidewalk/pavement might make
passing very difficult for anything but pedestrians).

I harp on this point, because here the majority of people around here
_do_ ride on the sidewalk/pavement (those who want to really ride fast
ride on the street, and of course the more crowded the sidewalks, the
more likely bicyclists are to choose the street), and it seems to cause
little problem -- and there are a _vast_ number of bicyclists here
(multiple orders of magnitude more, I'd wager, than wherever
TibetanMonkey is).

I'm American, and my personal instinct is to ride on the street, but
since I observe around me a very healthy bicycle culture that
successfully works otherwise, it can get pretty annoying seeing the
endless pronouncements from TibetanMonkey that such behavior is
evil/wrong/etc.

[Can it be annoying sometimes, as a pedestrian? *Sure. *But simply
instituting rules that go against a long-ingrained bicycling culture
would almost certainly be pointless -- people would just ignore them.
Instead, the government approach seems to be to widen sidewalks, which
is fine by me....]

Riding on sidewalks has a number of minuses:

1- It's not any safer than the road. My girlfriend has fallen on it
twice, either because it's narrow or uneven. Dirt can be a factor on
corners.

2- It creates dangerous conditions for pedestrians.

3- The practical speed is reduced in half to accommodate for
unexpected pedestrians and corners.

4- Corners are the most dangerous places on sidewalks, where cars
don't see you or ignore you.

5- Drivers just dismiss you.

6- Authorities will also dismiss and will never try to safer roads for
you.

7- Poles and signposts appear out of the blue, particularly when you
get distracted by pretty ladies.

ETC, ETC.

Same minuses in the U.S., but here people are conditioned from
childhood to think that its safer to ride on the sidewalk. Unless
they get with a road cyclist or a cycling club that teaches them the
rules of the road, they never get off the sidewalks. Mommy said,
"Ride here." Duh. They are still doing it at age 40! Never mind
that in the meantime, they have mowed down 20 pedestrians and been
blind-sided by cars not looking for them on the sidewalk when exiting
from a parking lot to the street. Duh.

On 12/13/2010 3:39 PM, Sandlin wrote:
On Dec 13, 2:45 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the mundane
prophet of the last days before the end of times"
wrote:
On Dec 12, 3:33 pm, Miles wrote:



Martin writes:
Regrettably, riding on the pavement is common in Birmingham.

Why is it regrettable? I mean, if bicyclists are bowling-over
pedestrians, than of course _that's_ regrettable, but it's not riding on
the sidewalk/pavement that's the problem per-se. The issue is really
not where they ride, but whether they ride in a manner appropriate for
the location, and whether the physical infrastructure can accommodate
them (e.g a very narrow, or very crowded, sidewalk/pavement might make
passing very difficult for anything but pedestrians).

I harp on this point, because here the majority of people around here
_do_ ride on the sidewalk/pavement (those who want to really ride fast
ride on the street, and of course the more crowded the sidewalks, the
more likely bicyclists are to choose the street), and it seems to cause
little problem -- and there are a _vast_ number of bicyclists here
(multiple orders of magnitude more, I'd wager, than wherever
TibetanMonkey is).

I'm American, and my personal instinct is to ride on the street, but
since I observe around me a very healthy bicycle culture that
successfully works otherwise, it can get pretty annoying seeing the
endless pronouncements from TibetanMonkey that such behavior is
evil/wrong/etc.

[Can it be annoying sometimes, as a pedestrian? Sure. But simply
instituting rules that go against a long-ingrained bicycling culture
would almost certainly be pointless -- people would just ignore them.
Instead, the government approach seems to be to widen sidewalks, which
is fine by me....]

Riding on sidewalks has a number of minuses:

1- It's not any safer than the road. My girlfriend has fallen on it
twice, either because it's narrow or uneven. Dirt can be a factor on
corners.

2- It creates dangerous conditions for pedestrians.

3- The practical speed is reduced in half to accommodate for
unexpected pedestrians and corners.

4- Corners are the most dangerous places on sidewalks, where cars
don't see you or ignore you.

5- Drivers just dismiss you.

6- Authorities will also dismiss and will never try to safer roads for
you.

7- Poles and signposts appear out of the blue, particularly when you
get distracted by pretty ladies.

ETC, ETC.

Same minuses in the U.S., but here people are conditioned from
childhood to think that its safer to ride on the sidewalk. Unless
they get with a road cyclist or a cycling club that teaches them the
rules of the road, they never get off the sidewalks. Mommy said,
"Ride here." Duh. They are still doing it at age 40! Never mind
that in the meantime, they have mowed down 20 pedestrians and been
blind-sided by cars not looking for them on the sidewalk when exiting
from a parking lot to the street. Duh.

I pulled out in front of a ninja [1] cyclist who was riding on the
sidewalk a few days ago. Very easy to miss when you have the lights of
cars in your eyes.

[1] A person who rides at night with no lights or reflectors while
wearing dark clothes.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On Dec 13, 7:13*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 12/13/2010 3:39 PM, Sandlin wrote:



On Dec 13, 2:45 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the mundane
prophet of the last days before the end of times"
*wrote:
On Dec 12, 3:33 pm, Miles *wrote:

Martin *writes:
Regrettably, riding on the pavement is common in Birmingham.

Why is it regrettable? *I mean, if bicyclists are bowling-over
pedestrians, than of course _that's_ regrettable, but it's not riding on
the sidewalk/pavement that's the problem per-se. *The issue is really
not where they ride, but whether they ride in a manner appropriate for
the location, and whether the physical infrastructure can accommodate
them (e.g a very narrow, or very crowded, sidewalk/pavement might make
passing very difficult for anything but pedestrians).

I harp on this point, because here the majority of people around here
_do_ ride on the sidewalk/pavement (those who want to really ride fast
ride on the street, and of course the more crowded the sidewalks, the
more likely bicyclists are to choose the street), and it seems to cause
little problem -- and there are a _vast_ number of bicyclists here
(multiple orders of magnitude more, I'd wager, than wherever
TibetanMonkey is).

I'm American, and my personal instinct is to ride on the street, but
since I observe around me a very healthy bicycle culture that
successfully works otherwise, it can get pretty annoying seeing the
endless pronouncements from TibetanMonkey that such behavior is
evil/wrong/etc.

[Can it be annoying sometimes, as a pedestrian? *Sure. *But simply
instituting rules that go against a long-ingrained bicycling culture
would almost certainly be pointless -- people would just ignore them.
Instead, the government approach seems to be to widen sidewalks, which
is fine by me....]

Riding on sidewalks has a number of minuses:

1- It's not any safer than the road. My girlfriend has fallen on it
twice, either because it's narrow or uneven. Dirt can be a factor on
corners.

2- It creates dangerous conditions for pedestrians.

3- The practical speed is reduced in half to accommodate for
unexpected pedestrians and corners.

4- Corners are the most dangerous places on sidewalks, where cars
don't see you or ignore you.

5- Drivers just dismiss you.

6- Authorities will also dismiss and will never try to safer roads for
you.

7- Poles and signposts appear out of the blue, particularly when you
get distracted by pretty ladies.

ETC, ETC.

Same minuses in the U.S., but here people are conditioned from
childhood to think that its safer to ride on the sidewalk. * Unless
they get with a road cyclist or a cycling club that teaches them the
rules of the road, they never get off the sidewalks. *Mommy said,
"Ride here." *Duh. *They are still doing it at age 40! *Never mind
that in the meantime, they have mowed down 20 pedestrians and been
blind-sided by cars not looking for them on the sidewalk when exiting
from a parking lot to the street. *Duh.

I pulled out in front of a ninja [1] cyclist who was riding on the
sidewalk a few days ago. *Very easy to miss when you have the lights of
cars in your eyes.

[1] *A person who rides at night with no lights or reflectors while
wearing dark clothes.

Very appropriate name. One ninja cyclist --clad in black-- overtook my
bike on the right! Actually my light had quit on me but I still wore
my bright vest.

I think those ninjas are actually stupid.

On Dec 13, 4:39*pm, Sandlin wrote:
On Dec 13, 2:45*am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the mundane
prophet of the last days before the end of times"



wrote:
On Dec 12, 3:33 pm, Miles Bader wrote:

Martin Edwards writes:
Regrettably, riding on the pavement is common in Birmingham.

Why is it regrettable? *I mean, if bicyclists are bowling-over
pedestrians, than of course _that's_ regrettable, but it's not riding on
the sidewalk/pavement that's the problem per-se. *The issue is really
not where they ride, but whether they ride in a manner appropriate for
the location, and whether the physical infrastructure can accommodate
them (e.g a very narrow, or very crowded, sidewalk/pavement might make
passing very difficult for anything but pedestrians).

I harp on this point, because here the majority of people around here
_do_ ride on the sidewalk/pavement (those who want to really ride fast
ride on the street, and of course the more crowded the sidewalks, the
more likely bicyclists are to choose the street), and it seems to cause
little problem -- and there are a _vast_ number of bicyclists here
(multiple orders of magnitude more, I'd wager, than wherever
TibetanMonkey is).

I'm American, and my personal instinct is to ride on the street, but
since I observe around me a very healthy bicycle culture that
successfully works otherwise, it can get pretty annoying seeing the
endless pronouncements from TibetanMonkey that such behavior is
evil/wrong/etc.

[Can it be annoying sometimes, as a pedestrian? *Sure. *But simply
instituting rules that go against a long-ingrained bicycling culture
would almost certainly be pointless -- people would just ignore them.
Instead, the government approach seems to be to widen sidewalks, which
is fine by me....]

Riding on sidewalks has a number of minuses:

1- It's not any safer than the road. My girlfriend has fallen on it
twice, either because it's narrow or uneven. Dirt can be a factor on
corners.

2- It creates dangerous conditions for pedestrians.

3- The practical speed is reduced in half to accommodate for
unexpected pedestrians and corners.

4- Corners are the most dangerous places on sidewalks, where cars
don't see you or ignore you.

5- Drivers just dismiss you.

6- Authorities will also dismiss and will never try to safer roads for
you.

7- Poles and signposts appear out of the blue, particularly when you
get distracted by pretty ladies.

ETC, ETC.

Same minuses in the U.S., but here people are conditioned from
childhood to think that its safer to ride on the sidewalk. * Unless
they get with a road cyclist or a cycling club that teaches them the
rules of the road, they never get off the sidewalks. *Mommy said,
"Ride here." *Duh. *They are still doing it at age 40! *Never mind
that in the meantime, they have mowed down 20 pedestrians and been
blind-sided by cars not looking for them on the sidewalk when exiting
from a parking lot to the street. *Duh.

They are the scourge of pedestrians but are often victims of their own
blindness. Like the hunter-gatherers before, they live a short brutish
live.

On Dec 13, 4:39 pm, Sandlin wrote:

ETC, ETC.

Same minuses in the U.S., but here people are conditioned from
childhood to think that its safer to ride on the sidewalk. Unless
they get with a road cyclist or a cycling club that teaches them the
rules of the road, they never get off the sidewalks. Mommy said,
"Ride here." Duh. They are still doing it at age 40! Never mind
that in the meantime, they have mowed down 20 pedestrians and been
blind-sided by cars not looking for them on the sidewalk when exiting
from a parking lot to the street. Duh.

They are the scourge of pedestrians but are often victims of their own
blindness. Like the hunter-gatherers before, they live a short brutish
life.