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#61
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 2018-03-21 17:15, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 07:51:34 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote: On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote: snip The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one online? Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier of bicycle equipment. But is sez "bike bottle" ... https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26 I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release. I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/ 30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look for that brand then. Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle? https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove. The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody knows. Ah, but if there was a standard for the bottles carried on bicycles you wouldn't be able to carry that big bucket of beer that you brag about. After all, it wouldn't be standard. That's what panniers were invented for. That is where my growler rides. Or rode because now I brew beer myself. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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#62
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 2018-03-21 17:12, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 07:57:35 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-21 07:32, AMuzi wrote: On 3/21/2018 8:59 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 10:48:31 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 20 Mar 2018 10:58:10 -0700, Joerg wrote: Just ordered a bottle from Stansport. It is nice but much smaller in diameter than my California Bike Gear bottle which is a snug fit. So the Stansport bottle rattles around in there. Why can't they agree on one standard diameter? In the electronics industry we got that licked decades ago. Any tricks how to adapt to both without bending the cage back and forth? Sure. Buy a set of bottle cages made from steel or aluminum rod and just bend them to fit. I built a rack to hold two large bottles behind the seat and that is what I did. It's been working for a number of years now with no problems. Right, and after bending it back and forth 20 times to adapt to the various bottles the holder goes plink ... breaks off. Or, one could buy several bottles all the same size and bend the cage only when they all wear out. One can only speculate on why you have all these problems that the rest of the world seems to be able to overcome without mention. Judging by the various partially full bottles encountered along trails I am not the only one. It's just that cyclists seem to put up with a lot of stuff that motorists would not tolerate. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#63
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 3/22/2018 6:14 AM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 21:22:29 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote: John B. writes: On Wed, 21 Mar 2018 20:08:29 -0400, Radey Shouman wrote: Emanuel Berg writes: Radey Shouman wrote: Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an outside document. Why not? Are we supposed to put more stock in people who first boast of their standards making the world better, then won't even reveal their standards free of charge when it is just a matter of duplicating a bunch of 0s and 1s on a web server? Wikipedia is plainly not organized for that sort of purpose. All facts in it are supposed to be verifiable using some external expert source -- Wikipedia is explicitly *not* for the first publication. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability Which is why I thought it odd that no reference or link was provided to reference to the 73 mm "standard" diameter. Perhaps I missed it. The sections you mention had a note that they required further editing. Perhaps because they mention a definite size and did not provide a reference. I didn't see that. All sections have an "edit" link, so you, or someone else can edit them. There are some sections that say "citation needed", but not the 73 mm pronouncement. I have never edited a Wikipedia entry, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I *think* that any Wikki page can be edited at any time. At least I remember someone on another site complaining about posting something on the Wikki and later finding it edited to "correct it". His complaint was that his original entry was factually correct and the edited version was incorrect and he was trying to find some method of locking his post so it couldn't be changed. I gathered that there was no way that an entry could be prevented from being edited. Right. That's almost the definition of a wiki. http://dilbert.com/strip/2009-05-08 -- - Frank Krygowski |
#64
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 3/22/2018 8:21 AM, Joerg wrote:
It's just that cyclists seem to put up with a lot of stuff that motorists would not tolerate. That's why you need the BBB Fuel Tank XL. Bottles cannot be ejected. You buy a bottle of water with the right diameter from Trader Joes. Add a sport top. I like not carrying multiple bottles of water, and if you don't need a large amount of water you just don't fill it all the way. If I put the bike on the car rack I can leave the bottle on the bike knowing it won't bounce out. It's a hassle to adjust the height of the retaining clamp so don't change bottle sizes. http://oi68.tinypic.com/25z2k41.jpg |
#65
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 22/03/2018 9:51 AM, sms wrote:
On 3/22/2018 5:48 AM, Duane wrote: Tires on the other hand are getting ridiculous.Â* I can get a pair of Conti GP4000s from ChainReactionCycles for the price of one tire locally. The margins on tires of all kinds are huge. It's like mattresses. So there's a lot of room for discounting. But the bigger issue is actually finding the tires you want in stock. Jay has two large shops near him, as well as the Biketiresdirect pick-up option. For most of us, it would mean a lot of driving around or calling around to find the tires we wanted, and then paying 2x the price. Not the shop's fault, you can't expect a shop to stock hundreds of sizes and brands of tires. In my case I'm using tires that are readily available at most shops dealing with road bikes so that's not an issue. I was using Spec Turbo Pro tires and those are not available online but since my favorite shop dropped the Spec line, I switched to Conti 4000s. |
#66
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On 2018-03-22 10:19, sms wrote:
On 3/22/2018 8:21 AM, Joerg wrote: It's just that cyclists seem to put up with a lot of stuff that motorists would not tolerate. That's why you need the BBB Fuel Tank XL. Bottles cannot be ejected. You buy a bottle of water with the right diameter from Trader Joes. Add a sport top. I like not carrying multiple bottles of water, and if you don't need a large amount of water you just don't fill it all the way. If I put the bike on the car rack I can leave the bottle on the bike knowing it won't bounce out. It's a hassle to adjust the height of the retaining clamp so don't change bottle sizes. http://oi68.tinypic.com/25z2k41.jpg It looks like a solid system though likely not easy to whip out during the ride to take a sip every now and then. In my case not very practical because this wouldn't work on the MTB. For that I found a handlebar holder that hangs on to (fitting) bottles very well. It is very rare that the bottle flies out and that almost requires some impact with branches. For large quantities to refill the bottle, or to take a massive gulp on a trail, I have lots of trunk space on both bikes. The MTB can carry up to 1-1/2 gallons which is necessary on long trails during hot summer days. I really needed I could add my 2-liter hydation pack but I don't like it because it gives me a sweaty back. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#67
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 06:58:26 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote: On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:52:02 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote: jbeattie writes: On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote: On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote: snip The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one online? Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier of bicycle equipment. But is sez "bike bottle" ... https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26 I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release. I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/ 30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look for that brand then. Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle? https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove. The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody knows. There is a standard -- 73mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty water bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of carcinogens. Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an outside document. I don't know if there is a standards body, but there is certainly a de facto standard -- same with mounting bolt spacing. That doesn't mean a manufacturer has to follow the de facto standard, but variations have usually been sold as bottle-cage combos or been advertised as being non-standard, e.g. cage for disposable plastic water bottles, etc. -- Jay Beattie. The point is that he bought something that he didn't know would fit on his bike and when it doesn't fit he complains about it. What's next? Complaints that the 300c tire he bought on the Web doesn't fit his MTB? -- Cheers, John B. |
#68
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
jbeattie writes:
On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 2:52:02 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote: jbeattie writes: On Wednesday, March 21, 2018 at 7:51:31 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 17:48, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, March 20, 2018 at 4:44:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-03-20 15:54, sms wrote: On 3/20/2018 3:18 PM, Joerg wrote: snip The question is, how do you know if a bottle is proper when buying one online? Stansport is primarly a camping equipment company. Buy from a supplier of bicycle equipment. But is sez "bike bottle" ... https://www.stansport.com/bike-bottle-26-oz-214-26 I guess they need to learn and test their designs before release. I like the Clean Designs bottle https://www.cleanbottle.com/ 30 bucks, yikes. I like their bottom screw lid though. Thanks, will look for that brand then. Hmmmm. I wonder where you could buy a water bottle? https://tinyurl.com/y9zbb7fg I wrote that I have a source for fitting bottles, I could just buy more from Cal Gear because they fit like a glove. The reason for my post was to find out why there isn't a real standard. Like there is for wheel diameters, tires (well, maybe with the exception of some Contis). I guess nobody knows. There is a standard -- 73mm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottle_cage You bought a ****ty water bottle from an outdoor equipment company that probably drew a bottle on the back of napkin, gave it to some OE plastic bottle manufacturer in PRC and then marketed the results as a bicycle water bottle. Its like complaining about Walmart bikes. I wouldn't be surprised if the bottle is radioactive and full of carcinogens. Wikipedia is a standards body? I didn't see any reference to an outside document. I don't know if there is a standards body, but there is certainly a de facto standard -- same with mounting bolt spacing. That doesn't mean a manufacturer has to follow the de facto standard, but variations have usually been sold as bottle-cage combos or been advertised as being non-standard, e.g. cage for disposable plastic water bottles, etc. That agrees with my experience, of never buying a bottle nor cage that would not fit the ones I already had. As you say, it's plainly not a formal standard. Apart from Wikipedia I can't find it even written down anywhere online. -- |
#69
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
John B. wrote:
DIN 838 Box wrenches, double head - Test torques series A Standard by Deutsches Institut Fur Normung E.V. (German National Standard), 09/01/2007 DIN 895 Engineers wrenches for subordinate applications - Dimensions and test torques Standard by Deutsches Institut Fur Normung E.V. (German National Standard), 09/01/2007 The details of each standard are available from the Institute upon paying a fee. I'd like to thank everyone for their answers and they have made a practical influence, tho of course it doesn't matter what we do, only Jehovah knows Tho I know you like to be brilliant with your knowledge and I like mine as well I know that you know its just a bike and just a car and even an aeroplane. The funny thing is tho I know you will react internally bubble-bubble you ALL know this Ha ha ha! My next project will be a technology one and some morons will think this any different from putting together a sweet old steel SWEDISH standard bike ) You take your lycra... PS. Here in Sweden everything is so good - here, we are not nationalists! ) -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#70
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Bicycle bottle diameters, why different?
Emanuel Berg:
John B. wrote: DIN 838 Box wrenches, double head - Test torques series A Standard by Deutsches Institut Fur Normung E.V. (German National Standard), 09/01/2007 DIN 895 Engineers wrenches for subordinate applications - Dimensions and test torques Standard by Deutsches Institut Fur Normung E.V. (German National Standard), 09/01/2007 The details of each standard are available from the Institute upon paying a fee. According to the publisher, though, anyone buying this cheap book is getting kiloeuro's worth of bicycle tech standards: https://www.beuth.de/en/publication/din-taschenbuch-345/223066209 Actually, paying a bit of ransom seems preferable to signing up to and taking notes inside any standards committee meetings. I'd like to thank everyone for their answers and they have made a practical influence, tho of course it doesn't matter what we do, only Jehovah knows But then, since last week in Sweden, they are planning to ban Jehovah: https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/sweden-plans-ban-on-religious-education-immigration-crisis/ My next project will be a technology one and some morons will think this any different from putting together a sweet old steel SWEDISH standard bike ) You take your lycra... SWEloi been imbibing Joergian formula suds or inhaling too much CO? PS. Here in Sweden everything is so good - here, we are not nationalists! ) What a shame! A proper nationalist would simply row (or Volvo-marine) his boat across the Baltic Sea to Prussian-occupied Rostock[1] in Southern Sweden, on a mission to liberate wrench standards. Printouts or taking photographs of any of the sacred DIN wrench standards is Verboten!, but having Merkelian library staff copy for you would probably work just by claiming to be a professor from "Upper Syria". [1] http://www.ub.uni-rostock.de/ub/xAboutUs/pnz_xen.shtml Uni Rostock Parkstr. 6 18057 Rostock |
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