distracting light

TimC wrote:
On 2009-06-08, F Murtz (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
I have no problem with bicycles on suburban streets or fancy clothing I
have no problem being able to see unadorned unflashing bicycles
I do have a problem with one particular flashing light that was annoying.
I do have a problem with bicycles on highways not designed for them.

Would that be toll roads and freeways? All other roads appear
perfectly designed for them. My own shire's roads unfortunately
aren't designed for B doubles -- very unfortunate since they also shut
down the freight trains and so we do actually get hundreds of trucks
per hour come through on roads that clearly weren't designed for it.
They've only been talking about a town bypass for the past 30 years.
With luck, perhaps a cross country rail link will be set up before the
bypass gets more than half funded.

I do have a problem with the same bicycle in peak hour continually
passing and then obstructing me then falling behind and the cycle
starting over again causing danger as every one passes him again.

What? How does that work? If a cyclist passes you repeatedly,
doesn't that mean they're going on average the same speed as them? So
why not just stick behind them once they pass you the first time? You
will still find you'll be stuck behind the same car at the next set of
lights. And the next. And the next. The funny thing about traffic,
is it is other traffic holding you up. Not the occasional bike.
Bikes take up bugger all space. It is rather damned hard for us to
obstruct traffic if there's any real chance that motorists can
actually go any quicker. On my own quiet twisty country roads, there
is one section where it isn't safe to overtake me for about a
kilometer (doesn't stop a few city tourists trying though), and it's
not safe for me to pull over. So on the rare occasion where someone
does get stuck behind me then (once every couple of weeks), someone
has the potential to be stuck behind me for about a minute and a half.
Out of a half hour trip to town. Who cares?

What's the average speed of a car these days anyway? I think it was
about 20km/h, even including the small number of cars that actually
get out of the city.

When I was younger I used to ride to the station every day for school.I
used to ride every where and had no trouble using suburban streets and
never using main roads except to cross. I do not understand the
compulsion to get to the nearest main road and stay on it as long as
possible unless it is to show off ones fancy clothes

For me, it's because the main road is the most direct route to go
where I'm trying to go. Same reason you take that road. If you don't
like it, why don't you yourself take side streets?

I have a black motorcycle and dark clothing no lights in the day and I
have no problem with others not seeing me

Heh. Good on you. Someone told me that they could barely see my bike
(suzuki blue, with the lights on constantly) despite them knowing I
was there because they had pulled out of their driveway a few seconds
after I had pulled out of their driveway.

Patrick Turner wrote:
I do have to sometimes show my displeasure when motorists misbehave and
threaten my life, like the other day when I was cut off by a taxi
driver. I chased him into where he picked up a passenger at a busy hotel
entrance and I gave him both barrels about what he'd ****in done wrong,
and told him how I felt. Needless to say he hates cyclists all the more,
and maybe I ruined his morning, but maybe he thinks twice about cutting
across a cycle lane. On a bike you must defend yourself.

Heh. I had to use my airhorn on a cage full of teenagers today. They
still didn't acknowledge my existence (despite the airhorn being
pretty much aimed at the open window of the driver).

The problem with bicycles repeatedly passing is nothing to do with speed
it is the danger of the car having to move half a lane to get round them
annoying the car behind etc.I don't mind that once per bicycle it is
having to do it ten times per bicycle in a few kilometres that is the
problem.
If you stay behind the bicycle which is the safest you won't find
yourself behind the same car at the next lights all the other cars move
into the space in front of the bike that will appear putting you x no of
cars back then the whole process starts again at the next light when the
same bike has moved to the beginning at the lights again.
This problem does not occur on suburban streets, only on main roads at
peak time.
I am not anti bicycle. I have bicycles.Don't use them much and when I do
it is not on main roads at peak as I would be a nuisance to others.

On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:09:56 +1000, F Murtz wrote:

The problem with bicycles repeatedly passing is nothing to do with speed
it is the danger of the car having to move half a lane to get round them
annoying the car behind etc.

Yawn. did you buy your lmotor vehicle driver's licence or ear it? Have a
problem with driving safely. At least you can overtake a bicycle. So much
harder to overtake another motor vehicle.

terryc wrote:
On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:09:56 +1000, F Murtz wrote:

The problem with bicycles repeatedly passing is nothing to do with speed
it is the danger of the car having to move half a lane to get round them
annoying the car behind etc.

Yawn. did you buy your lmotor vehicle driver's licence or ear it? Have a
problem with driving safely. At least you can overtake a bicycle. So much
harder to overtake another motor vehicle.

Yawn. read the bits you snipped.

On 2009-06-08, F Murtz (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
TimC wrote:
On 2009-06-08, F Murtz (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
I do have a problem with the same bicycle in peak hour continually
passing and then obstructing me then falling behind and the cycle
starting over again causing danger as every one passes him again.

What? How does that work? If a cyclist passes you repeatedly,
doesn't that mean they're going on average the same speed as them? So
why not just stick behind them once they pass you the first time? You
will still find you'll be stuck behind the same car at the next set of
lights. And the next. And the next. The funny thing about traffic,
is it is other traffic holding you up. Not the occasional bike.
Bikes take up bugger all space. It is rather damned hard for us to
obstruct traffic if there's any real chance that motorists can
actually go any quicker. On my own quiet twisty country roads, there
is one section where it isn't safe to overtake me for about a
kilometer (doesn't stop a few city tourists trying though), and it's
not safe for me to pull over. So on the rare occasion where someone
does get stuck behind me then (once every couple of weeks), someone
has the potential to be stuck behind me for about a minute and a half.
Out of a half hour trip to town. Who cares?
....
The problem with bicycles repeatedly passing is nothing to do with speed
it is the danger of the car having to move half a lane to get round them
annoying the car behind etc.I don't mind that once per bicycle it is
having to do it ten times per bicycle in a few kilometres that is the
problem.
If you stay behind the bicycle which is the safest you won't find
yourself behind the same car at the next lights all the other cars move
into the space in front of the bike that will appear putting you x no of
cars back then the whole process starts again at the next light when the
same bike has moved to the beginning at the lights again.

Only the more agressive drivers will flow into the space infront of
you. It's best to get them out of the way anyway:

http://amasci.com/amateur/traffic/trafexp.html

Meanwhile, if you are still encountering the bike, then you are by
definition, going the same speed as them. If the gap in front of you
eventually fills up with those aforementioned aggressive drivers, then
eventually, the bike will get far enough ahead of you that you will
stop encountering it. Whereby you can go back to concentrating on the
stop start traffic without getting upset by the bike "holding you up".

This problem does not occur on suburban streets, only on main roads at
peak time.
I am not anti bicycle. I have bicycles.Don't use them much and when I do
it is not on main roads at peak as I would be a nuisance to others.

Nonsense.

--
TimC
Some of us here are sysadmins, and network admins, and even Windows
admins. Clubbing baby harp seals would a socially acceptable step
*up*. -- butting on ARK

On Jun 8, 9:09*pm, F Murtz wrote:

The problem with bicycles repeatedly passing is nothing to do with speed
it is the danger of the car having to move half a lane to get round them
annoying the car behind etc.

Are you not legally required to move completely into another lane to
pass a vehicle?

I don't mind that once per bicycle it is
having to do it ten times per bicycle in a few kilometres that is the
problem.

If you are having to do it more than once a bicycle you are not going
faster than the bicycle. Or are you saying bicycles should not be
allowed to pass stationary cars? The law specifically says they may.

If you stay behind the bicycle which is the safest you won't find
yourself behind the same car at the next lights all the other cars move
into the space in front of the bike that will appear putting you x no of
cars back then the whole process starts again at the next light when the
same bike has moved to the beginning at the lights again.
This problem does not occur on suburban streets, only on main roads at
peak time.
I am not anti bicycle. I have bicycles.Don't use them much and when I do
it is not on main roads at peak as I would be a nuisance to others

Theo

In aus.bicycle on Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:09:56 +1000
F Murtz wrote:
I am not anti bicycle. I have bicycles.Don't use them much and when I do
it is not on main roads at peak as I would be a nuisance to others.

If it's only happening on main roads at peak time, then what else
is different?

Answer... more cars.

If you are passing the same bicycle then there must be something
stopping you that isn't stopping them. The only thing that can be
is... stopped cars!

Main roads in non peak times have much higher average speeds than
the same road in peak times. The difference can't be bicycles,
just not enough of them. It has to be something else.

And the only thing it can be is... more cars!

So what's holding you up isn't the bicycle, that's just the different
thing you see and take note of. What's holding you up is other
cars.

It isn't at all intuitive because people are really bad at seeing
how systems work. Plus of course other cars are normal road noise,
you are used to being held up by them so you don't really process
it anymore. It's business as usual. But you see something different
and bingo! You focus on it. It's normal human mental processing,
see any number of studies about risk calculation.

Doesn't mean it is right of course, just means it's a mistake your
evolution is pushing you to make. Just acknowledge it is a mistake,
give yourself a tick for making your reason overcome your mistaken
instinct, and that solves that.


Zebee

"F Murtz" wrote in message
...

I have no problem with bicycles on suburban streets or fancy clothing

so you say !

I have no problem being able to see unadorned unflashing bicycles

you are indeed remarkable
OR
you are very inexperienced
OR
you are a TROLL

I do have a problem with one particular flashing light that was annoying.
but it made you aware of its presence - mission accomplished...

I do have a problem with bicycles on highways not designed for them.

suggest you have two problems - the main one your blinkered approach to
life,love and the universe

I do have a problem with the same bicycle in peak hour continually passing
and then obstructing me then falling behind and the cycle starting over
again causing danger as every one passes him again.

poor you ! you do have a problem indeed ..

When I was younger I used to ride to the station every day for school.I
used to ride every where and had no trouble using suburban streets and
never using main roads except to cross. I do not understand the compulsion
to get to the nearest main road and stay on it as long as possible unless
it is to show off ones fancy clothes

you have a problem - an attitude problem - get over it

I have a black motorcycle and dark clothing no lights in the day and I
have no problem with others not seeing me

sounds like you don't have much experience on the roads on your motor cycle
either
you might not have a problem with others not seeing you
but
how would you know that others have or do not have a problem with seeing you
?
have you ever considered that in addition to the size and shape of you and
your motor cycle you also have the advantage of making your presence on the
motor cycle felt by as a result of the sound that your machine makes ??

and BTW I have a problem with your inability to edit your problem posts


--


a friendly growl from the drop bear who cycles
(and also motor cycles)

__ __ __ _ __
/__/ / /__/ /_ /_\ /_ /
/_ / _ / /__/ /__ / \ / \ ....Azzuri Milano

__ __ __ _ __
/__/ / /__/ /_ /_\ /_ /
/_ / _ / /__/ /__ / \ / \ ....Kawasaki Zephyr

barry j taylor

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:09:56 +1000
F Murtz wrote:
I am not anti bicycle. I have bicycles.Don't use them much and when I do
it is not on main roads at peak as I would be a nuisance to others.

If it's only happening on main roads at peak time, then what else
is different?

Answer... more cars.

If you are passing the same bicycle then there must be something
stopping you that isn't stopping them. The only thing that can be
is... stopped cars!

Main roads in non peak times have much higher average speeds than
the same road in peak times. The difference can't be bicycles,
just not enough of them. It has to be something else.

And the only thing it can be is... more cars!

So what's holding you up isn't the bicycle, that's just the different
thing you see and take note of. What's holding you up is other
cars.

It isn't at all intuitive because people are really bad at seeing
how systems work. Plus of course other cars are normal road noise,
you are used to being held up by them so you don't really process
it anymore. It's business as usual. But you see something different
and bingo! You focus on it. It's normal human mental processing,
see any number of studies about risk calculation.

Doesn't mean it is right of course, just means it's a mistake your
evolution is pushing you to make. Just acknowledge it is a mistake,
give yourself a tick for making your reason overcome your mistaken
instinct, and that solves that.


Zebee
I realised that I would never get any where with this discussion on a
bicycle group.on a slightly different tack why is it that bus drivers
complain all the time about bicycles in the bus lane, they complain no
where as much about taxis and motor bikes. It is probably because taxis
and motorcycles rarely hold them up

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:06:48 +0930
barry j taylor wrote:

"F Murtz" wrote in message
...
I do have a problem with one particular flashing light that was annoying.
but it made you aware of its presence - mission accomplished...

nope.

because a light that causes oncoming traffic to look away is bad news.

Bad news for the bod on the bicycle, and bad news for surrounding
traffic.

It's perfectly possible to have a high intensity flashing light that
doesn't do this.

I don't think it's required, as driver distraction isn't safe, no
matter what does it.

A high intensity steady light that illuminates the road and a less
intense flasher as a signaller that doesn't cause drivers to look away
or have difficulties with the rest of the traffic is a much better
deal.

Zebee

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:44:27 +1000
F Murtz wrote:
I realised that I would never get any where with this discussion on a
bicycle group.on a slightly different tack why is it that bus drivers

What does "get anywhere" mean?

Does it mean "get my views validated" or does it mean "get useful
information and discussion"?

If it's the former then no, you won't get much of that in any
newsgroup really.

If it's the latter, then what useful information were you after, what
discussion did you expect?

complain all the time about bicycles in the bus lane, they complain no
where as much about taxis and motor bikes. It is probably because taxis
and motorcycles rarely hold them up

And the difference between a bicycle in a bus lane and a car in peak
hour is?

There is a very big one. I even mentioned it in the post you replied
to.

Now, given that, what is the difficulty?

And for bonus points, why are buslanes doing duty as bicycle lanes?
Whose idea was it, and who supports it?

Zebee