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not tubular yet maybe strong



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 30th 19, 05:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default not tubular yet maybe strong

https://www.berdspokes.com/

note to Jay: _some_ spokes are indeed expensive
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

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  #2  
Old July 30th 19, 06:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
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Default not tubular yet maybe strong

On 30/07/2019 18:40, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.berdspokes.com/

note to Jay:Â* _some_ spokes are indeed expensive


Aren't they just string?
  #3  
Old July 30th 19, 11:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Default not tubular yet maybe strong

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 6:51:31 PM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote:
On 30/07/2019 18:40, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.berdspokes.com/

note to Jay:Â* _some_ spokes are indeed expensive


Aren't they just string?


Yeah! I distinctly remember Jobst Brand, the alpha engineer of RBT, putting down some ignorant clown who insisted that the wheel stands on its spokes. If the wheel doesn't stand on its spokes, the spokes may as well be made of string, like a tarpaulin-covered airplane wing. QED.

Andre Jute
You think I'm joking? You're...
  #4  
Old July 31st 19, 12:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
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Default not tubular yet maybe strong

AMuzi wrote:
https://www.berdspokes.com/

note to Jay: _some_ spokes are indeed expensive


Lighter, but thicker, so what you gain in weight, you lose in aerodynamic
drag. But it does look to do a good job of lightening your wallet.

  #5  
Old July 31st 19, 12:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
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Posts: 853
Default not tubular yet maybe strong

Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.berdspokes.com/

note to Jay: _some_ spokes are indeed expensive


Lighter, but thicker, so what you gain in weight, you lose in aerodynamic
drag. But it does look to do a good job of lightening your wallet.



Or should that have been “what you lose in weight, you gain in aerodynamic
drag”?

  #6  
Old July 31st 19, 01:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default not tubular yet maybe strong

On 7/30/2019 6:18 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
https://www.berdspokes.com/

note to Jay: _some_ spokes are indeed expensive


Lighter, but thicker, so what you gain in weight, you lose in aerodynamic
drag. But it does look to do a good job of lightening your wallet.



Or should that have been “what you lose in weight, you gain in aerodynamic
drag”?


We all struggle with that sort of thing, a situation well
exploited by Marx[1]

I suggest you invoke the Safire rule, "When it sounds bad
both ways, rephrase."

Not only English. I recall French bike magazines claiming
some new crud had 'gain du poid' over the old model, which
is about as clear as yours above.

Maybe 'its weight advantage is nicely offset by the
aerodynamic penalty' ?


[1] "I once shot an elephant in my pajamas. How an elephant
got into my pajamas I will never know." Groucho, not Karl.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #7  
Old July 31st 19, 02:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default not tubular yet maybe strong

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:40:20 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.berdspokes.com/

note to Jay: _some_ spokes are indeed expensive


But worth it for the performance advantage.

The amazing thing is that the sash-cord spokes are $8 a pop -- but it is $595 to rebuild any wheelset. So, labor is what? $300 for 24-spoke wheels? Yikes!

And for tensioning, go for G#3. Two wheels and a jug, and you've got yourself a band!

-- Jay Beattie.

  #8  
Old July 31st 19, 06:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default not tubular yet maybe strong

On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 18:11:18 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:40:20 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.berdspokes.com/

note to Jay: _some_ spokes are indeed expensive


But worth it for the performance advantage.

The amazing thing is that the sash-cord spokes are $8 a pop -- but it is $595 to rebuild any wheelset. So, labor is what? $300 for 24-spoke wheels? Yikes!

And for tensioning, go for G#3. Two wheels and a jug, and you've got yourself a band!

-- Jay Beattie.


The local bile shop I patronized in Phuket built wheels. The old guy
that owned the shop, and built the wheels, reckoned that on the
average it took him 1/2 hour to built a wheel. Based on your prices
(above) that is about $600 an hour. (as opposed to the ~$10 that the
old fellow actually charged to build the wheel :-)

Buy American?
--
cheers,

John B.

  #9  
Old July 31st 19, 04:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default not tubular yet maybe strong

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 10:09:11 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 18:11:18 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:40:20 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.berdspokes.com/

note to Jay: _some_ spokes are indeed expensive


But worth it for the performance advantage.

The amazing thing is that the sash-cord spokes are $8 a pop -- but it is $595 to rebuild any wheelset. So, labor is what? $300 for 24-spoke wheels? Yikes!

And for tensioning, go for G#3. Two wheels and a jug, and you've got yourself a band!

-- Jay Beattie.


The local bile shop I patronized in Phuket built wheels. The old guy
that owned the shop, and built the wheels, reckoned that on the
average it took him 1/2 hour to built a wheel. Based on your prices
(above) that is about $600 an hour. (as opposed to the ~$10 that the
old fellow actually charged to build the wheel :-)

Buy American?
--
cheers,

John B.


Well, to be fair, building wheels with sash cord is a whole other skill-set.. You have to smooth the spoke holes, pull the cord, plug the "eye" -- and god only knows how you determine tension. Instead of three-cross, it's knit one, purl two. I wonder if they are machine washable. My spokes shrank!

You clearly do not want to tie and solder those spokes.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #10  
Old July 31st 19, 05:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
incredulous
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Posts: 107
Default not tubular yet maybe strong

So, this is some application from the 4 (?) families of high strength cordage that in the sailing business always is touted as 7 or more times the strength of SS by weight.

Kevlar, Nomex, Technora
Vectran
Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene UHMWPE fiber. UHMWPE
Zylon

I’m sure the spoke makers claim to have overcome initial stretch, slow elongation over time (called creep), fatigue from repeated stress and release, and from extended stress.

These are the aging and failure modes well-studied and reported in sail-racing.
 




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