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#41
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Pulled Over By Police
On Jan 11, 4:20*am, Mike wrote:
I recently started training for my first Century. *I started riding my bicycle to work three days a week. *It's about 15 miles one way. *It's a good ride, but the only legal route is a four lane that has a 55 mile per hour speed limit. SNIP Please ride safe. Mike Jarrells Thank you all for your support! For those who are serious about bicycle safety I suggest you visit this site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_Cycling I have found the ideas at this site very useful and I would like to thank the author for sharing. Please ride safe for yourself and others. Mike Jarrells |
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#43
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Pulled Over By Police
Mike Jarrells wrote:
I recently started training for my first Century. Â*I started riding my bicycle to work three days a week. Â*It's about 15 miles one way. Â*It's a good ride, but the only legal route is a four lane that has a 55 mile per hour speed limit. SNIP Please ride safe. Thank you all for your support! For those who are serious about bicycle safety I suggest you visit this site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_Cycling "Defective Cycling" has long been on the best seller list for geeks. It was written in the days when the author was mucking with bicycle amenities in Palo Alto, accomplishing little while raising much dust. Low key Ellen Fletcher, a bicyclist, became a city council member accomplished much more without making much hay on it. I have found the ideas at this site very useful and I would like to thank the author for sharing. very, very useful, no doubt. I think the book may also be the origin of "take the lane" bicycling, and other rude self righteousness in bicycling. Please ride safe for yourself and others. What happened to adverbs, or are you not a native user of English? Jobst Brandt |
#44
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Pulled Over By Police
Bill Bushnell wrote:
Friday I was coming home and there was some traffic. Motorists were honking as usual. One actually honked and buzzed me when there was no traffic. I just don't understand some people. That's a good sign you are not riding well. I have had that experience a few times on roads where I never have contention, even though there is no shoulder or even paving outside the edge stripe. The honking and slicing occur when a "take the lane" rider joins me on one of these routes. They ride conspicuously as much as three feet farther into the lane than necessary, and it is obvious to motorists that a self righteous statement is being made. You may be misattributing motorist hostility. I ride no differently when I ride alone or with others, yet I observe less courtesy from motorists when I'm riding with other cyclists. This may be because the group presents a more difficult obstacle for a motorist to comfortably pass, even if that group is riding single file within two feet of the edge of the paved surface. Don't jump to conclusions like that. You and I have ridden together on these roads and not had hostile responses from motorists. I am observant enough to sense a "take the lane" type who rides about a yard farther into the right lane than reasonable. These are the folks I try to avoid for bicycle rides. I often ride with several other reasonable bicyclists and get no animosity from motorists. I find the phrase, "take the lane", unnecessarily confrontational and prefer the phrase "proper lane position". This might mean riding within two feet of the paved edge, say, when climbing at 5 mph, (e.g. Page Mill Rd. near Moody Rd.), or it might mean using the entire lane while descending the same section of road. That appellation already carries bad baggage. It doesn't matter what you call riding five feet out in the traffic lane, it gives a bad feeling to motorists. Besides, "take the lane" is common jargon among the inept. When cruising along a shoulderless road with narrow lanes at 20-25 mph I usually find myself riding on the right-hand tire track of dual-track motor traffic. http://tinyurl.com/a7s74g [...] Oh yes, the police are the problem. I've heard it often from born again bicyclists. Take the lane! In some communities police may be a problem. It wasn't too long ago that the local deputy sheriffs were ticketing cyclists for not performing calisthenics (putting a foot down) at stop signs or from straying from a marked bike lane without signaling. Yes, that is proven by the recent action by a BART policeman. They all look alike! Jobst Brandt |
#45
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Pulled Over By Police
Bill Bushnell wrote:
Friday I was coming home and there was some traffic. Motorists were honking as usual. One actually honked and buzzed me when there was no traffic. I just don't understand some people. That's a good sign you are not riding well. I have had that experience a few times on roads where I never have contention, even though there is no shoulder or even paving outside the edge stripe. The honking and slicing occur when a "take the lane" rider joins me on one of these routes. They ride conspicuously as much as three feet farther into the lane than necessary, and it is obvious to motorists that a self righteous statement is being made. You may be misattributing motorist hostility. I ride no differently when I ride alone or with others, yet I observe less courtesy from motorists when I'm riding with other cyclists. This may be because the group presents a more difficult obstacle for a motorist to comfortably pass, even if that group is riding single file within two feet of the edge of the paved surface. Don't jump to conclusions like that. You and I have ridden together on these roads and not had hostile responses from motorists. I am observant enough to sense a "take the lane" type who rides about a yard farther into the right lane than reasonable. These are the folks I try to avoid for bicycle rides. I often ride with several other reasonable bicyclists and get no animosity from motorists. I find the phrase, "take the lane", unnecessarily confrontational and prefer the phrase "proper lane position". This might mean riding within two feet of the paved edge, say, when climbing at 5 mph, (e.g. Page Mill Rd. near Moody Rd.), or it might mean using the entire lane while descending the same section of road. That appellation already carries bad baggage. It doesn't matter what you call riding five feet out in the traffic lane, it gives a bad feeling to motorists. Besides, "take the lane" is common jargon among the inept. When cruising along a shoulderless road with narrow lanes at 20-25 mph I usually find myself riding on the right-hand tire track of dual-track motor traffic. http://tinyurl.com/a7s74g [...] Oh yes, the police are the problem. I've heard it often from born again bicyclists. Take the lane! In some communities police may be a problem. It wasn't too long ago that the local deputy sheriffs were ticketing cyclists for not performing calisthenics (putting a foot down) at stop signs or from straying from a marked bike lane without signaling. Yes, that is proven by the recent action by a BART policeman. They all look alike! Jobst Brandt |
#46
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Pulled Over By Police
wrote:
Mike Jarrells wrote: For those who are serious about bicycle safety I suggest you visit this site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_Cycling "Defective Cycling" has long been on the best seller list for geeks. It was written in the days when the author was mucking with bicycle amenities in Palo Alto, accomplishing little while raising much dust. Low key Ellen Fletcher, a bicyclist, became a city council member accomplished much more without making much hay on it. I have found the ideas at this site very useful and I would like to thank the author for sharing. very, very useful, no doubt. I think the book may also be the origin of "take the lane" bicycling, and other rude self righteousness in bicycling. At the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taking_the_lane the section on "Lane control" discusses when a cyclist should ride in the center of the lane. The following paragraph may point to source of the controversy. "John Franklin [author of Cyclecraft] advocates operating bicycles in accordance with the basic rules of the road for vehicle operation. Using terms such as "primary riding position" meaning in the center of the traffic lane and "secondary riding position" meaning about 1 meter (3.2 feet) to the side of moving traffic, but not closer than .5 meters (1.6 feet) from the edge of the road. Franklin advocates the primary riding position as the normal position and the secondary riding position only when it is safe, reasonable and necessary to allow faster traffic to pass." This is a more aggressive intepretation of "take the lane" and is one that I believe is inconsistent with CA state vehicle code Sec. 21202 that requires riding as far right as practicable as the default or "primary riding position". Jobst, I think your main disagreement may be with how one interprets "take the lane" and also appears to be clouded by your apparent personal dislike of Forrester the man. Are you advocating that we discard Vehicular Cycling concepts because some of its practitioners exercise them poorly or because you personally dislike Forrester? -- Bill Bushnell http://pobox.com/~bushnell/ |
#47
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Pulled Over By Police
Bill Bushnell wrote:
"John Franklin [author of Cyclecraft] advocates operating bicycles in accordance with the basic rules of the road for vehicle operation. Using terms such as "primary riding position" meaning in the center of the traffic lane and "secondary riding position" meaning about 1 meter (3.2 feet) to the side of moving traffic, but not closer than .5 meters (1.6 feet) from the edge of the road. Franklin advocates the primary riding position as the normal position and the secondary riding position only when it is safe, reasonable and necessary to allow faster traffic to pass." I don't find these directions helpful. Usually it's easy to discern the edge of the road that's swept by car tires -- it's clean. I simply ride slightly to the left of this "debris line". That keeps you out of the junk and disrupts passing traffic minimally. If there's a wide shoulder, and it's clean with good pavement (rare around here in New England) I'll use that. There's no need to ride more than inches out from the debris line. There are times when I'll go a bit further out, that's when I'm getting "sliced" -- cars passing too closely (like a foot off my elbow). This usually happens when the lane width is such that the driver doesn't have to cross the median to pass -- only just barely, and will attempt to squeeze by. |
#48
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Pulled Over By Police
In article ,
Frank Krygowski writes: On Jan 11, 6:13*am, (Tom Keats) wrote: sigh So many people have heard about, but not understood the John Forester Effective Cycling approach. *Much of that approach actually does work, but not when taken as rote mummery. "Take the lane" has become too much of a battlecry, instead of the occasional tactic to be resorted-to only when necessary. Egregious lane-taking is just plain road-hogging. *Sociably co-existing with others is an Art. *It is unfortunate that so many of us are artless. *It's even worse when we fail to have basic consideration for other people. For what it's worth, I have a friend who's ridden with Forester. He says Forester shared lanes readily, and took the lane only when necessary. Isn't taking the lane only when necessary how it should be? cheers, Tom -- Nothing is safe from me. I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca |
#49
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Pulled Over By Police
In article ,
(Dennis P. Harris) writes: On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:09:42 -0800 in rec.bicycles.misc, (Tom Keats) wrote: Especially since I've been passed so many times by fellow riders thatI didn't notice in the mirror because they were in the blind spot when they were behind me. No blind spot with my helmet mirror '^) No blind spots with left /and/ right shoulder checking, either. And looking both left & right is something we're gonna have to do especially when the fair-weather riders once again come out of the woodwork. cheers, Tom -- Nothing is safe from me. I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca |
#50
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Pulled Over By Police
On Jan 17, 9:15*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
In article , * * * * Frank Krygowski writes: For what it's worth, I have a friend who's ridden with Forester. *He says Forester shared lanes readily, and took the lane only when necessary. Isn't taking the lane only when necessary how it should be? I think so. That's assuming the verb "taking" applies only if there are cars behind you. (On empty roads, I ride at lane center - or wherever the road is smoothest.) As I said, I share lanes when it's reasonable to share. I've heard that there are some cyclists who are more militant, and who (almost?) always ride in the center of the lane, even if there are cars behind and the lane is wide. They may have their reasons for doing that, but it's not what I'd advise. - Frank Krygowski |
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