ERD for Ksyrium Elite 2005 rim

So my buddy asks me: 'can you lace this powertap hub into my Ksyrium
elite rear wheel?'

Sure I can. Rim and hub have the same # spokes so we're good there.
Need to know the ERD tho...

I COULD figure out the ERD but my measurement would be off (I am the
D'ohBoy) and I was hoping someone might KNOW the value...

TIA

D'ohBoy

Measuring is actually better than "knowing".

Mavic probably doesn't even know what it is...

On Oct 23, 1:52*pm, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
So my buddy asks me: 'can you lace this powertap hub into myKsyrium
elite rear wheel?'

Sure I can. *Rim and hub have the same # spokes so we're good there.
Need to know theERDtho...

I COULD figure out theERDbut my measurement would be off (I am the
D'ohBoy) and I was hoping someone might KNOW the value...

TIA

D'ohBoy

So if anyone is searching for this value here, it is close enough to
594 to be called that. Rounded the DS spoke length down and I am
about 1/2 mm from the top of the nipples for the DS spokes. NDS are
golden. 595 would prolly give the best results from spocalc.

Originally measured using two spokes threaded with nipples to the tops
of the heads and some light string but came up with 590.

Second time around I approached it differently. Using the depth
measurement part of my calipers, I placed a nipple in an OP rim and
measured the depth from the outer edge of the rim to the top of the
spoke head. Repeated this a number of times to get an average value.
Then I did the same with the Ksyrium rim.

Now, since:

ERD = distance from the very ends of two opposing spoke's heads;

And we know the OP ERD = 605;

And we know the difference between the Ksyrium and OP distance from
the rim edge to top of nipple head is 5.5 mm *deeper* (as measured);

Ksyrim ERD = [OP ERD] - [2*Spoke head depth difference] = 594

This assumes that the total rim diameter is identical. As far as I
could tell, the OP and the Ksyrium had the same overall diameter.

Much less chance for error in this method, IMO.

D'ohBoy

P.S.: I also learned that 24 spoke wheels (not to mention the huge
hub flange on the Powertap) don't like to be laced 3x, altho with this
configuration 2x the spoke angles relative to the tangent are very
similar to 3x with a 'standard' hub. D'oh!

ok one more time. erd is theory. reality is deductible from erd. erd
isnot workable.
get a wood beam.
drilla center hole for either the axle or the bottom hub shape.
shim up at the rim circumference pints of beam for dish. use scrap. no
scrap ? visit a cabinet shop.
place rim on shims, hub in center.
measure the spoke lengths
go to the LBS
buy 8 spokes.
insert into rim and hub on beam.
develop a practical idea of what you want for lenght.
is dumb building a wheel without a beam

On 2008-11-13, datakoll wrote:
ok one more time. erd is theory. reality is deductible from erd. erd
isnot workable.
get a wood beam.
drilla center hole for either the axle or the bottom hub shape.
shim up at the rim circumference pints of beam for dish. use scrap. no
scrap ? visit a cabinet shop.
place rim on shims, hub in center.
measure the spoke lengths
go to the LBS
buy 8 spokes.
insert into rim and hub on beam.
develop a practical idea of what you want for lenght.
is dumb building a wheel without a beam

There were some developments on this which you might have missed.

We had the usual long thread about ERD, and then Jobst confirmed that
after all nipple height and personal preferences were never intended to
be included in ERD.

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec...088375db2c5cb6

ERD was always meant to be just SSD. Then add nipple height or other
height afterwards according to taste.

It doesn't change anything much because lots of people out there are
still using ERD to mean different things.

On Nov 14, 3:17*am, Ben C wrote:
On 2008-11-13, datakoll wrote:

ok one more time. erd is theory. reality is deductible from erd. erd
isnot workable.
get a wood beam.
drilla center hole for either the axle or the bottom hub shape.
shim up at the rim circumference pints of beam for dish. use scrap. no
scrap ? visit a cabinet shop.
place rim on shims, hub in center.
measure the spoke lengths
go to the LBS
buy 8 spokes.
insert into rim and hub on beam.
develop a practical idea of what you want for lenght.
is dumb building a wheel without a beam

There were some developments on this which you might have missed.

We had the usual long thread about ERD, and then Jobst confirmed that
after all nipple height and personal preferences were never intended to
be included in ERD.

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec...088375db2c5cb6

ERD was always meant to be just SSD. Then add nipple height or other
height afterwards according to taste.

It doesn't change anything much because lots of people out there are
still using ERD to mean different things.

wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllll,

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooo
problem right ? mission accomplkished
i defer.
ok whatever JB is writing was writing decades ago when english denoted
differently than contemporary english where all words ending in -ing
are verbs, people grunt articulately.
Like I mean no one is that dumb right ? especially JB.
This ERD mess, planetary from Kansas outward, is surely one of JB's
teaching techniques ?
I forget what we locked horns over but frankly, my position is: I won
and JB lost.
but thatsnot the problem. the problem is uh let me see what is the
problem oh yeah...
people use words not knowing what the words mean. all sorts of
problems originate thus: WW1, WW2...
take Shoemaker.....
person A ( eg, a weasel in the parts warehouse)may know what ERD
means but B has no idea
and A tells B to ERD and so B screws up the spokes thinking the
concept needs resolution in a spreadsheet when what is needed is A to
tell B to do what I suggest.
No why did not JB do that ?
caws it renders ERd what ? and thatsnot the focus of what ?
JB's book. JB really wants use to engineer the wheel and truly that's
best but itsnot getting the job done is it ?
a book I read and enjoyed 2-3 times.
thankyou JB.

SO WHAT IS ERD GOOD FOR ???
hmmmmm ? uh uh uh
I guess ERD could be used locatING dishing shims on a wheel building
beam
BUT A Muzi suggests two welding rods or Homedepot rod with washers and
nuts...
what is that good for Andrew ?

On Nov 14, 9:28 am, datakoll wrote:
On Nov 14, 3:17 am, Ben C wrote:



On 2008-11-13, datakoll babbled incoherently:

ok one more time. erd is theory. reality is deductible from erd. erd
isnot workable.
get a wood beam.
drilla center hole for either the axle or the bottom hub shape.
shim up at the rim circumference pints of beam for dish. use scrap. no
scrap ? visit a cabinet shop.
place rim on shims, hub in center.
measure the spoke lengths
go to the LBS
buy 8 spokes.
insert into rim and hub on beam.
develop a practical idea of what you want for lenght.
is dumb building a wheel without a beam

There were some developments on this which you might have missed.

We had the usual long thread about ERD, and then Jobst confirmed that
after all nipple height and personal preferences were never intended to
be included in ERD.

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec...088375db2c5cb6

ERD was always meant to be just SSD. Then add nipple height or other
height afterwards according to taste.

It doesn't change anything much because lots of people out there are
still using ERD to mean different things.

wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllllllllllll,

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooo
problem right ? mission accomplkished
i defer.
ok whatever JB is writing was writing decades ago when english denoted
differently than contemporary english where all words ending in -ing
are verbs, people grunt articulately.
Like I mean no one is that dumb right ? especially JB.
This ERD mess, planetary from Kansas outward, is surely one of JB's
teaching techniques ?
I forget what we locked horns over but frankly, my position is: I won
and JB lost.
but thatsnot the problem. the problem is uh let me see what is the
problem oh yeah...
people use words not knowing what the words mean. all sorts of
problems originate thus: WW1, WW2...
take Shoemaker.....
person A ( eg, a weasel in the parts warehouse)may know what ERD
means but B has no idea
and A tells B to ERD and so B screws up the spokes thinking the
concept needs resolution in a spreadsheet when what is needed is A to
tell B to do what I suggest.
No why did not JB do that ?
caws it renders ERd what ? and thatsnot the focus of what ?
JB's book. JB really wants use to engineer the wheel and truly that's
best but itsnot getting the job done is it ?
a book I read and enjoyed 2-3 times.
thankyou JB.

http://tinyurl.com/56eyst

HTH

as goes the ozarks so goes bavaria....
received this morning

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pervyy blin maslom ne isportish
nadpis na mashine skoroy pomoschi vse tam budem
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bolnomu trebuetsya uhod vracha i chem dalshe vrach uydt tem bolnomu
luchshe
na shtirlica napali pyat esesovcev dvoe derzhali emu ruki dvoe -
nogi odin - golovu shtirlic chudom otbilsya chudo bolelo tri dnya i
meshalo hodit
gde sovok tam i musor
schaste est ne est - vot neschaste

always glad to help out....
did you replace the outhouse lid yet ?

datakoll wrote:
SO WHAT IS ERD GOOD FOR ???
hmmmmm ? uh uh uh
I guess ERD could be used locatING dishing shims on a wheel building
beam
BUT A Muzi suggests two welding rods or Homedepot rod with washers and
nuts...
what is that good for Andrew ?

Semantics, mostly as your prior post noted.

Those of us who do this all day do not worry our pretty wheelbuilders'
heads about nomenclature. We know where we want the end of the spoke and
we calculate accordingly. Those whose underwear is bunchy over lengths
ending to bottom or top of nipple slot (and yes, I mean you of the
aluminum nipple fetish) may care to introduce more angst to what we feel
is a straightforward and simple bit of data retrieval. Anything within
that 1mm range is, in my opinion, fungibly correct and useful.

If you need a constant which includes nipple depth, then by all means
measure and/or manipulate your numbers thusly. Just don't call it rim
diameter. Others have already fouled the waters in that manner.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **