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#11
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Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?
The basis of this mentality is authoritarianism, which is now the
predominant right-wing conservative perspective in the USA, particularly Christian Conservatism. Violence directed towards perceived lower tiers without conscience, combined with a kiss-up attitude towards authority figures. The driver assumes anyone else would do the same thing given the opportunity. The perception is magnified by the metaphor that the car did the violence on the drivers' behalf (absolution), and the cyclists' lack of official operators credentials. The language used in newspaper articles and local broadcast TV/radio to describe automobile crashes is intended to reinforce the absolution, in part because automobile manufactures/retailers are the primary (and sometimes only) advertising revenue source. The lack of enforcement of harsh fines or jail time for this behavior removes any doubt that this behavior is sanctioned. This is driven by conservative politics. the lack of cyclist licensing and registration/plates credentials informs an authoritarian that the cyclist does not belong on the road and thus should be punished for getting in the way, or even just for fun. I think the best way to counter all this is to make cycling more Authoritarian friendly. An vigorous licensing and registration bureaucracy. Drum up patriotic and religious associations with the bicycle. The flag, cross, and bible imagery! Build segregated bikeways like in Europe, protected with bollards and make it downright christian and patriotic. Logically Christian conservatives have every supposed moral, ethical, and principled reason to be all about bikes, but modern conservatives have no conscience. They really don't - at least not since Goldwater! You have to give them increasingly authoritarian reasons. and that can be done and will work like a charm. On Jun 12, 5:01*pm, Tșm ShermȘn °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI $southslope.net" wrote: Police report: "THE CYCLIST WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 NEAR THE TRULOVE LOOP INTERSECTION. * V1 WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 APPROACHING THE CYCLIST FROM THE REAR. *THE FRONT OF V1 COLLIDED WITH THE REAR OF THE BICYCLE. *THE IMPACT THREW THE CYCLIST INTO THE AIR BEFORE LANDING ON THE HOOD OF V1 AND ONTO THE WINDSHIELD. *V1 CONTINUED FOR A FEW FEET BEFORE COMING TO A STOP. *THE CYCLIST WAS THEN THROWN TO THE ASPHALT WHEN V1 STOPPED. *THE DRIVER OF V1 EXITED THE VEHICLE AND OBSERVED THE CYCLIST WHILE TALKING ON THE PHONE. *D1 THEN REENTERED HER VEHICLE AND RAN THE CYCLIST OVER AGAIN BEFORE BEING FORCED FROM HER VEHICLE BY WITNESSES. *V1 CAME TO FINAL REST FACING WEST IN THE WEST BOUND LANE ON MS 50 JUST METERS WEST OF THE TRULOVE LOOP INTERSECTION. *THE CYCLIST CAME TO FINAL REST NEAR THE RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF V1." See http://www.accidentin.com/article3079581/friends_family_of_accident_v.... Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit mayhem with her vehicle? http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919 -- Tșm ShermȘn - 42.435731,-83.985007 I am a vehicular cyclist. |
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#12
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Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?
On Jun 14, 3:16*pm, Phil W Lee wrote:
NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. *End of story. Absolutely. Freedom of association and freedom to travel are rights. But even they can be revoked (via imprisonment) when a person is convicted of a crime. Freedom to operate a motor vehicle is a privilege. There should be a much lower standard for its revocation. If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident" they'd take the necessary care to avoid them. Correct. The current "I might scratch my paint job" would be replaced by "I might never drive again." It would make a huge - and appropriate - difference. - Frank Krygowski |
#13
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Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jun 14, 3:16 pm, Phil W Lee wrote: NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. End of story. Absolutely. Freedom of association and freedom to travel are rights. But even they can be revoked (via imprisonment) when a person is convicted of a crime. Freedom to operate a motor vehicle is a privilege. There should be a much lower standard for its revocation. If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident" they'd take the necessary care to avoid them. Correct. The current "I might scratch my paint job" would be replaced by "I might never drive again." It would make a huge - and appropriate - difference. While I agree with harsher penalties for those who have clearly shown they lack the necessary mental attitude to drive safely, as far as I can recall, every single motor vehicle crash story I have heard reported here, has the *vehicle* doing something wrong. "A 16 YEAR-OLD girl was in the driver's seat in a horrific crash that killed two men and left two other passengers critically injured in north-west Victoria this weekend. The girl, who is also in a serious condition, was travelling with four male friends to to a ''psytrance'' dance party in the Pyrenees Ranges, when the vehicle smashed through a barrier and lodged in a tree. The force of the crash left the car hanging nearly two metres off the ground. The car, a Land Rover Discovery four-wheel-drive, was towing a trailer loaded with camping equipment when it crashed at Burrumbeet, about 20 kilometres west of Ballarat. It was unclear if the girl, from St Kilda, was a learner driver, who are banned from towing caravans or trailers. Ballarat traffic branch Acting Sergeant Travis Johnson confirmed a girl, the only female in the car, was at the wheel of the car. ''I don't know if she was a learner,'' he said. " Read mo http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tw...611-1fya3.html Bad, bad vehicle. How dare it smash through a barrier and lodge in a tree. Also note that "The car ... was towing a trailer ... when it crashed ..." Why wasn't it reported that a learner driver, illegally drove a 4WD towing a trailer, across to the wrong side of the road, through a barrier, and into a tree? I can sort of see what lee.watkins is on about, not that it is right. -- JS. |
#14
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Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?
James wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: On Jun 14, 3:16 pm, Phil W Lee wrote: NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. End of story. Absolutely. Freedom of association and freedom to travel are rights. But even they can be revoked (via imprisonment) when a person is convicted of a crime. Freedom to operate a motor vehicle is a privilege. There should be a much lower standard for its revocation. If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident" they'd take the necessary care to avoid them. Correct. The current "I might scratch my paint job" would be replaced by "I might never drive again." It would make a huge - and appropriate - difference. While I agree with harsher penalties for those who have clearly shown they lack the necessary mental attitude to drive safely, as far as I can recall, every single motor vehicle crash story I have heard reported here, has the *vehicle* doing something wrong. "A 16 YEAR-OLD girl was in the driver's seat in a horrific crash that killed two men and left two other passengers critically injured in north-west Victoria this weekend. The girl, who is also in a serious condition, was travelling with four male friends to to a ''psytrance'' dance party in the Pyrenees Ranges, when the vehicle smashed through a barrier and lodged in a tree. The force of the crash left the car hanging nearly two metres off the ground. The car, a Land Rover Discovery four-wheel-drive, was towing a trailer loaded with camping equipment when it crashed at Burrumbeet, about 20 kilometres west of Ballarat. It was unclear if the girl, from St Kilda, was a learner driver, who are banned from towing caravans or trailers. Ballarat traffic branch Acting Sergeant Travis Johnson confirmed a girl, the only female in the car, was at the wheel of the car. ''I don't know if she was a learner,'' he said. " Read mo http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tw...611-1fya3.html Bad, bad vehicle. How dare it smash through a barrier and lodge in a tree. Also note that "The car ... was towing a trailer ... when it crashed ..." Why wasn't it reported that a learner driver, illegally drove a 4WD towing a trailer, across to the wrong side of the road, through a barrier, and into a tree? I can sort of see what lee.watkins is on about, not that it is right. Car crashes have numerous otherworldly causes. Bad Tree jumps out at drunk driver, Evil Car leaves pavement, The Lure of Texting, Meddlesome GPS Alert, etc. Sometimes it's caused by a sighting of The Other Woman: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/...reat-continues http://preview.tinyurl.com/6db4jsd Too bad nothing can be done about any of those things. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#15
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Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?
yeah I agree, lettus execute all irresponsible drivers....
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#16
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Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?
AMuzi wrote:
Car crashes have numerous otherworldly causes. Bad Tree jumps out at drunk driver, Evil Car leaves pavement, The Lure of Texting, Meddlesome GPS Alert, etc. Sometimes it's caused by a sighting of The Other Woman: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/...reat-continues http://preview.tinyurl.com/6db4jsd Too bad nothing can be done about any of those things. It is very difficult to prevent these things happening the first time, I agree. It is easy to prevent repeat offenses. -- JS. |
#17
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Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?
On 6/14/2011 5:10 PM, James wrote:
[...] "A 16 YEAR-OLD girl was in the driver's seat in a horrific crash that killed two men and left two other passengers critically injured in north-west Victoria this weekend. The girl, who is also in a serious condition, was travelling with four male friends to to a ''psytrance'' dance party in the Pyrenees Ranges, when the vehicle smashed through a barrier and lodged in a tree. The force of the crash left the car hanging nearly two metres off the ground. The car, a Land Rover Discovery four-wheel-drive, was towing a trailer loaded with camping equipment when it crashed at Burrumbeet, about 20 kilometres west of Ballarat.[...] If she is similar to most 16-year old girls, she has no idea that towing should *not* be considered routine driving. -- TÂșm ShermÂȘn - 42.435731,-83.985007 I am a vehicular cyclist. |
#18
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Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?
On Jun 14, 12:16*pm, Phil W Lee wrote:
snip What we need are proper penalties for abuse of the privilege of motor vehicle use. Heavy fines for the responsible party in any collision - and if they can't decide which party that was, the fine should be split between them, not ignored. *The full cost of the clear up and medical treatment necessary should be charged to their insurance. Any injury should result in imprisonment, the duration depending on the severity - why should the perpetrator recover any more quickly than their victim? *Permanent disablement or death should equal life imprisonment. NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. *End of story. Okay, but "any doubt" in *whose* mind? I repeat, the vagaries of human nature in all its splendor abound at the controls of traffic. (Whjee) If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident" they'd take the necessary care to avoid them. Absolutely right! It's about time. snip |
#19
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Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?
On Jun 15, 10:11*am, Phil W Lee wrote:
Dan O considered Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:15:40 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write: On Jun 14, 12:16*pm, Phil W Lee wrote: snip What we need are proper penalties for abuse of the privilege of motor vehicle use. Heavy fines for the responsible party in any collision - and if they can't decide which party that was, the fine should be split between them, not ignored. *The full cost of the clear up and medical treatment necessary should be charged to their insurance. Any injury should result in imprisonment, the duration depending on the severity - why should the perpetrator recover any more quickly than their victim? *Permanent disablement or death should equal life imprisonment. NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. *End of story. Okay, but "any doubt" in *whose* *mind? Any contact with another vehicle, object or person that can't be entirely attributed to another party. I repeat, the vagaries of human nature in all its splendor abound at the controls of traffic. *(Whjee) If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident" they'd take the necessary care to avoid them. Absolutely right! *It's about time. If licence suspensions and/or revocations were used more often, people would get used to the idea of alternatives to driving, and it would be economically viable to provide those alternatives. No, they would get used to driving without a license -- and without insurance. The accident described in the original post involved an aparent psychopathic driver. Most non-psychopathic drivers want to avoid accidents and do not need further incentive -- e.g., the threat of license suspension or revocation for an "accident." Psychopaths don't care and are probably driving without a license anyway. The people who do the most damage are rarely those who respond to bland punishments. -- Jay Beattie. |
#20
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Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?
In article , phil@lee-
family.me.uk says... "lee.watkins" considered Tue, 14 Jun 2011 07:31:26 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write: The basis of this mentality is authoritarianism, which is now the predominant right-wing conservative perspective in the USA, particularly Christian Conservatism. Violence directed towards perceived lower tiers without conscience, combined with a kiss-up attitude towards authority figures. The driver assumes anyone else would do the same thing given the opportunity. The perception is magnified by the metaphor that the car did the violence on the drivers' behalf (absolution), and the cyclists' lack of official operators credentials. The language used in newspaper articles and local broadcast TV/radio to describe automobile crashes is intended to reinforce the absolution, in part because automobile manufactures/retailers are the primary (and sometimes only) advertising revenue source. The lack of enforcement of harsh fines or jail time for this behavior removes any doubt that this behavior is sanctioned. This is driven by conservative politics. the lack of cyclist licensing and registration/plates credentials informs an authoritarian that the cyclist does not belong on the road and thus should be punished for getting in the way, or even just for fun. I think the best way to counter all this is to make cycling more Authoritarian friendly. An vigorous licensing and registration bureaucracy. Drum up patriotic and religious associations with the bicycle. The flag, cross, and bible imagery! Build segregated bikeways like in Europe, protected with bollards and make it downright christian and patriotic. What utter cobblers. What we need are proper penalties for abuse of the privilege of motor vehicle use. Heavy fines for the responsible party in any collision - and if they can't decide which party that was, the fine should be split between them, not ignored. The full cost of the clear up and medical treatment necessary should be charged to their insurance. Any injury should result in imprisonment, the duration depending on the severity - why should the perpetrator recover any more quickly than their victim? Permanent disablement or death should equal life imprisonment. NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. End of story. If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident" they'd take the necessary care to avoid them. Logically Christian conservatives have every supposed moral, ethical, and principled reason to be all about bikes, but modern conservatives have no conscience. They really don't - at least not since Goldwater! You have to give them increasingly authoritarian reasons. and that can be done and will work like a charm. On Jun 12, 5:01Â*pm, TÂșm ShermÂȘn °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI $southslope.net" wrote: Police report: "THE CYCLIST WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 NEAR THE TRULOVE LOOP INTERSECTION. Â* V1 WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 APPROACHING THE CYCLIST FROM THE REAR. Â*THE FRONT OF V1 COLLIDED WITH THE REAR OF THE BICYCLE. Â*THE IMPACT THREW THE CYCLIST INTO THE AIR BEFORE LANDING ON THE HOOD OF V1 AND ONTO THE WINDSHIELD. Â*V1 CONTINUED FOR A FEW FEET BEFORE COMING TO A STOP. Â*THE CYCLIST WAS THEN THROWN TO THE ASPHALT WHEN V1 STOPPED. Â*THE DRIVER OF V1 EXITED THE VEHICLE AND OBSERVED THE CYCLIST WHILE TALKING ON THE PHONE. Â*D1 THEN REENTERED HER VEHICLE AND RAN THE CYCLIST OVER AGAIN BEFORE BEING FORCED FROM HER VEHICLE BY WITNESSES. Â*V1 CAME TO FINAL REST FACING WEST IN THE WEST BOUND LANE ON MS 50 JUST METERS WEST OF THE TRULOVE LOOP INTERSECTION. Â*THE CYCLIST CAME TO FINAL REST NEAR THE RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF V1." See http://www.accidentin.com/article307..._of_accident_v... . Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit mayhem with her vehicle? http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919 -- TÂșm ShermÂȘn - 42.435731,-83.985007 I am a vehicular cyclist. 3500 pound car protecting the motorist vs cyclist with no metal around him/her means the car wins every time. Unfortuneatly that's the nature of the beast and drivers, if cited at all, are only cited for driving erratically or not staying in the lane or some other only citable offense. The cyclist is left with serious or fatal injuries and if fortuneate enough to get hit by a driver with adequate resources or insurance, can gain some financial recourse in civil court. However, this case of the driver hitting the cyclist a second time is an entirely different matter. If intent of the driver's part can be shown, this probably warrants assault with a deadly weapon or attempted manslaughter/murder type of charge. I would like to see that. Local politics and attitude toward bicyclists usually plays a critical part in how the offender is charged, if at all. |
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