need spring-energy-storage mechanism

wrote:
i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large
wind-up clock motor?

the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top
of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing
paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for
very much transport.

the concept is to use a cargo bicycle, maybe with trailer, to carry
the items down to the bottom of the mountain, "winding up the clock"
on the spring-storage.

at the bottom, the load is transferred to buyers. the now very-much-
lighter bicycle is to be driven UP the mountain, using the stored
energy.

Any cat which will catch the mice is fine with me. I'm just thinking
that anything involving electricity, hydraulic fluids, etc, will be
too involved, and losses throguh two conversions. Capacitor storage
might be feasible, if there's high quality ones being sold. The charge
doesn't need to held for long amounts of time. Down the hill, then
back up.

Ideally, this will be a ready-to-go or mostly ready-to-go
commercial item. I am rather mechanically/electrically handy. But
this is business, not pleasure. Time spent should be cost-effective.

Sam Wormley wrote:
A Toyota Prius will convert and store the energy... of which will get
it part way back up the mountain... But the important point is that
the gravitational energy available from the commodity will be used to
help get the transport back up the mountain.
The physics problem: Calculate the energy available and compare with the
energy needs.

I believe the forgotten aspect is that energy conversion / storage/
retrieval at each step is inefficient. Else every vehicle would have
'magic regenerative braking' already.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Start at the beginning. You have a weight on top of a mountain, how
do you get it down the mountain?

Throw it off and let it roll down if you can.

Yeah, maybe a track... stuff the goods in a ball and roll it down. Or a
catapult.




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Revision wrote:

Start at the beginning. You have a weight on top of a mountain, how
do you get it down the mountain?

Throw it off and let it roll down if you can.

Yeah, maybe a track... stuff the goods in a ball and roll it down. Or a
catapult.


Don't forget to add enough cats to the load in the "Cat-A-Pult" to
make sure it lands right side up.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"default" wrote in message
...

Start at the beginning. You have a weight on top of a mountain, how
do you get it down the mountain?

Funicular.


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Homer J Simpson wrote:
"default" wrote in message
...

Start at the beginning. You have a weight on top of a mountain, how
do you get it down the mountain?

Funicular.

Enjoyably gross?

Don't forget to add enough cats to
make sure it lands right side up.

http://www.dealingtime.com/upload/fi...t-apult-sm.JPG

Fore!



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On May 29, 7:53 pm, wrote:
i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large
wind-up clock motor?

the scenario is: a slightly-valuable commodity originates at the top
of a mountain. More or less a bushel at a time. there is an existing
paved road. the commodity fetches a price, but not enough to pay for
very much transport.

the concept is to use a cargo bicycle, maybe with trailer, to carry
the items down to the bottom of the mountain, "winding up the clock"
on the spring-storage.

at the bottom, the load is transferred to buyers. the now very-much-
lighter bicycle is to be driven UP the mountain, using the stored
energy.

Any cat which will catch the mice is fine with me. I'm just thinking
that anything involving electricity, hydraulic fluids, etc, will be
too involved, and losses throguh two conversions. Capacitor storage
might be feasible, if there's high quality ones being sold. The charge
doesn't need to held for long amounts of time. Down the hill, then
back up.

Ideally, this will be a ready-to-go or mostly ready-to-go
commercial item. I am rather mechanically/electrically handy. But
this is business, not pleasure. Time spent should be cost-effective.

Use a simple counterweight and brake - the weight of the goods going
down pulls it up and when they're removed, the counterweight falls
back down. No road needed.
Any spring based energy storage device is likely to require an
excessively heavy frame to contain the compressive forces. A flywheel
(vacuum cage ?) will work but once again weight is involved - although
with a rim weighted flywheel it might not be as much as the spring
system.

On Tue, 29 May 2007 23:14:16 -0500, "Revision"
wrote:

Start at the beginning. You have a weight on top of a mountain, how
do you get it down the mountain?

Throw it off and let it roll down if you can.

Yeah, maybe a track... stuff the goods in a ball and roll it down. Or a
catapult.

I like catapult or big slingshot.

Or a pipe, he didn't say what the material is.
--

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On May 29, 9:32 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Revision wrote:

Start at the beginning. You have a weight on top of a mountain, how
do you get it down the mountain?

Throw it off and let it roll down if you can.

Yeah, maybe a track... stuff the goods in a ball and roll it down. Or a
catapult.

Don't forget to add enough cats to the load in the "Cat-A-Pult" to
make sure it lands right side up.

Tape buttered toast onto the cats back and it will spin up and fly
much straighter.

On May 29, 5:53 am, wrote:
i think i need a spring energy-storage mechanism. Maybe a very large
wind-up clock motor?

[snip]
the concept is to use a cargo bicycle, maybe with trailer, to carry
the items down to the bottom of the mountain, "winding up the clock"
on the spring-storage.

at the bottom, the load is transferred to buyers. the now very-much-
lighter bicycle is to be driven UP the mountain, using the stored
energy.

Any cat which will catch the mice is fine with me. I'm just thinking
that anything involving electricity, hydraulic fluids, etc, will be
too involved, and losses throguh two conversions. Capacitor storage
might be feasible, if there's high quality ones being sold. The charge
doesn't need to held for long amounts of time. Down the hill, then
back up.


You're up against the energy density problem. You don't quantify
anything here, but you are potentially looking to store a large
quantity of energy. Flywheels make good energy storage "buffers"
much like capacitors, but they don't do large energy storage well.
And they have losses as well. Folks have suggestsed various
forms of cable driven machines, and that has the advantage that
you'll use the energy when you generate it. Alternately, you
can store the energy in a fixed location and resuse it through a
cable system. And cable systems will have their significant losses
as well.

It would seem that what you are after actually is any reasonably
efficient storage system, and then use it to move ALOT of
material. That will increase the difference between the mass
being lifted, and that being lowered. This will allow you to suffer
fairly significant losses an still accomplish what you are after.
This system you envision will work because you plan on harvesting
the potential energy of materials already elevated on the mountian to
do work. So you'll want to harvest large amounts such that you can
stand the losses in the conversion and use.

Off a cliff your easiest way is a 50 lb bucket with a 60 lb
counter
weight all hanging on a single pulley. Fill bucket, it goes down,
weight comes up. Empty bucket, weight goes down, bucket comes up.
You can do something similar with a cable, a car, and a track. Other
than that, my bet would be on any of the existing regenerative braking
systems already in existence.