Filter lights

"JNugent" wrote
On 23/03/2011 21:25, DavidR wrote:
wrote:

I never knew that. I always thought a green arrow pointing "forward"
meant
that you could move only in that direction.

Thanks for the info.

You might be right if these examples are standard.

http://tinyurl.com/6bu5w44

I think you could move forward (across the line) if the "forward" signal
was green and the "turn right" signal was red. You couldn't (yet) turn
right though.

http://tinyurl.com/49jvmbs

That sign (neat trick, BTW!) doesn't seem to be a lawful command. Not
unless signs have recently been revised and I haven't heard about it or
noticed it. It looks like helpful guidance.

It would allow more through the light if the queue moved up while waiting.
But it's useful on a bike to move forward to get clear space behind..

http://tinyurl.com/69f7qgd

There was no doubt about that one - was there?

I don't think I have encountered anybody in doubt about it.

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Tom Crispin wrote:

The other day I was waiting to turn right at a set of lights. The main
light went green but my filter light remained off. The driver in the car
behind me beeped his horn and went I turned around suggested I should
move beyond the stop line as the main lights were green. I stayed put
until the filter light came on.

Was I right, or was the driver right? Are road users allowed to move
past the stop line before a filter light has come on, on a road which
is not partitioned other than by lane markings?

Of course you are. The green circle means you can go; the green arrow
means you can be sure you won't hit anyone if you do go. If there was no
traffic coming the other way, you'd be free to move out and turn right
when the circle lit up, before the arrow did.

I don't think you're compelled to do so, but i would. I don't see any
reason not to.

tom

--
In-jokes for out-casts

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, JNugent wrote:

On 23/03/2011 10:49, Tony Raven wrote:

wrote:

I don't know that I've ever seen anyone do that (and have certainly never
done it myself), but logically, you are right. Forward motion is allowed
and only the actual right turn is not allowed (until the green light is
given for that direction).

Is the wrong answer. Unless there is a red filter light, the right turn is
allowed as in a normal junction. The green filter light just means the
oncoming traffic has a red light so you can turn freely.

I never knew that. I always thought a green arrow pointing "forward" meant
that you could move only in that direction.

If there's *only* an arrow, it does - and also that you can be sure of not
having any conflicting traffic (or rather, that said traffic has red
lights against it). But if there's also a green circle, you can go
wherever you like!

tom

--
In-jokes for out-casts

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 01:03:38 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Tom Crispin wrote:

The other day I was waiting to turn right at a set of lights. The main
light went green but my filter light remained off. The driver in the car
behind me beeped his horn and went I turned around suggested I should
move beyond the stop line as the main lights were green. I stayed put
until the filter light came on.

Was I right, or was the driver right? Are road users allowed to move
past the stop line before a filter light has come on, on a road which
is not partitioned other than by lane markings?

Of course you are. The green circle means you can go; the green arrow
means you can be sure you won't hit anyone if you do .


Oh dear - no wonder cyclists are always getting knocked off their bikes.

--

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The BMA (British Medical Association) urges legislation to make the wearing of cycle helmets compulsory for both adults and children.
The evidence from those countries where compulsory cycle helmet use has already been introduced is that such legislation has a beneficial effect on cycle-related deaths and head injuries.
This strongly supports the case for introducing legislation in the UK. Such legislation should result in a reduction in the morbidity and mortality associated with cycling accidents.

Matt B wrote:
On 23/03/2011 20:58, thirty-six wrote:
On Mar 23, 5:29 pm, Matt wrote:
On 23/03/2011 17:22, Tom Crispin wrote:



On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:53:59 -0000, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Tom Crispin wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 04:59:39 -0700 (PDT), Simon Mason
wrote:

On Mar 23, 11:48 am, wrote:
JNugent wrote:
On 23/03/2011 10:49, Tony Raven wrote:

wrote:

I don't know that I've ever seen anyone do that (and have
certainly never done it myself), but logically, you are
right. Forward motion is allowed and only the actual right
turn is not allowed (until the green light is given for
that direction).

Is the wrong answer. Unless there is a red filter light, the
right turn is allowed as in a normal junction. The green
filter light just means the oncoming traffic has a red light
so you can turn freely.

I never knew that. I always thought a green arrow pointing
"forward" meant that you could move only in that direction.

Thanks for the info.

surely it will depend on whether it is a filter lane only, in
which case red means you don't cross the stop line.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The OP stated that the "main light" went green inferring that
he was not in a turn right only lane, but in an ahead *and*
right turn lane.

The lane is a right only lane, the markings can be made out from
the ariel view:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=51....n=0.000879,0.0...

since it is a right turn only then you should not cross the stop
line till the green appropriate to your lane appears. but the
original view of the lights does not show a filter lane light at
all afaics

The filter light can be seen to be off:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?layer=....014162&cbp=12...

It doesn't matter what the lanes are for - you only have to stop at
the line if a red light applicable to that lane is on. Otherwise
you can go, even if there is a green filter arrow for just that
lane and it isn't on. The main green light applies to _all_ the
lanes that the red light applies to. Any extra green arrow filter
light is "for information only", telling you that the traffic
coming the other way is now on red, so you don't need to wait for
anything.

Even the 48 tonne truck approaching at 45mph with a scotch weilding
driver at the wheel?

There are certainly some people who would even continue across a zebra
crossing in front of one when on foot rather than concede their legal
priority. Our priority system certainly has a lot to answer for.

a very cantankerous old bat I know had that attitude: 'my foot is on the
crossing, they must stop' I did tell her that vehicles cannot just stop
instantaneously, but she was as described. One day a motorcycle took her
out on a crossing and she now has a limp to add to her problems (she is also
ginger)

"DavidR" wrote:
"Tony Raven" wrote
"DavidR" wrote:
"JNugent" wrote in message


I never knew that. I always thought a green arrow pointing "forward"
meant
that you could move only in that direction.

Thanks for the info.

You might be right if these examples are standard.

He is right but that is not what the OP described.

If I am not mistaken, the OP described the second example. Move forward and
turn if clear even if the right arrow is not lit.

JNugent referred to a green arrow pointing forward. That does not appear
to be what the OP was describing. If there is a green arrow pointing
forward you are only allowed to move in the direction of the green arrow.
In that respect JNugent was right but it is not relevant to the situation
the OP described.

--
Tony

On 24/03/2011 09:37, Tony Raven wrote:
wrote:
"Tony wrote
wrote:
wrote in message


I never knew that. I always thought a green arrow pointing "forward"
meant
that you could move only in that direction.

Thanks for the info.

You might be right if these examples are standard.

He is right but that is not what the OP described.

If I am not mistaken, the OP described the second example. Move forward and
turn if clear even if the right arrow is not lit.

JNugent referred to a green arrow pointing forward. That does not appear
to be what the OP was describing.

And indeed there isn't one apparent in the OP's Google Street View image.

If there is a green arrow pointing
forward you are only allowed to move in the direction of the green arrow.

In fact, I believe that there should be a red light for each of the
other directions showing too. If there's no red light for a given
direction then there's no compulsion to not go that way - is there?

In that respect JNugent was right but it is not relevant to the situation
the OP described.

--
Matt B

On Mar 23, 8:13*am, Tom Crispin wrote:
The other day I was waiting to turn right at a set of lights. The main
light went green but my filter light remained off. The driver in the
car behind me beeped his horn and went I turned around suggested I
should move beyond the stop line as the main lights were green. I
stayed put until the filter light came on.

Was I right, or was the driver right? Are road users allowed to move
past the stop line before a filter light has come on, on a road which
is not partitioned other than by lane markings?http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?layer=....014162&cbp=12...

In the link above is seems that several drivers have all moved beyond
the stop line before the filter light has come on.

As many have suggested, it appears that the driver was correct;
basically you can advance over the stop line as soon as the light
turns green. When you make the turn is up to you; the green right
arrow will, again as others have said, indicate to you that the
oncoming traffic has a red light. But you can make the right turn
whenever you like, at your own risk.

I'd do exactly the same on the bike as in the car; in fact on the bike
I'd be as far forward as reasonable to enable me to get over the
junction and clear asap so that the car behind wasn't tempted (as some
are) to over-take during the right turn.

On Mar 24, 1:03*am, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011, Tom Crispin wrote:
The other day I was waiting to turn right at a set of lights. The main
light went green but my filter light remained off. The driver in the car
behind me beeped his horn and went I turned around suggested I should
move beyond the stop line as the main lights were green. I stayed put
until the filter light came on.

Was I right, or was the driver right? Are road users allowed to move
past the stop line before a filter light has come on, on a road which
is not partitioned other than by lane markings?

Of course you are. The green circle means you can go; the green arrow
means you can be sure you won't hit anyone if you do go. If there was no
traffic coming the other way, you'd be free to move out and turn right
when the circle lit up, before the arrow did.

I don't think you're compelled to do so, but i would. I don't see any
reason not to.

By British law you are, otherwise you would be obstructing the
carriageway. Police have been known to bring prosecutions against
those who fail to control their vehicle after observation of a green
signal. Cross the stop line unless the signal is against you.


tom

--
In-jokes for out-casts

On Mar 24, 1:21*am, Phil W Lee wrote:
Tom Crispin considered Wed, 23 Mar 2011
08:13:21 +0000 the perfect time to write:

The other day I was waiting to turn right at a set of lights. The main
light went green but my filter light remained off. The driver in the
car behind me beeped his horn and went I turned around suggested I
should move beyond the stop line as the main lights were green. I
stayed put until the filter light came on.

Was I right, or was the driver right? Are road users allowed to move
past the stop line before a filter light has come on, on a road which
is not partitioned other than by lane markings?
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?layer=....014162&cbp=12...

In the link above is seems that several drivers have all moved beyond
the stop line before the filter light has come on.

If the straight ahead green light is an arrow (i.e. a straight ahead
filter), it applies ONLY to straight ahead and you were correct.
In this case the right filter will be on a separate light head, with
it's own red and amber lights, and the red light will remain lit.
If, otoh, the straight ahead green light is a plain green light (with
the right filter mounted on the side of it), it allows vehicles in any
lane to pass the line, although only the filter light indicates that
you no longer have to give way to oncoming traffic.
So from the link you gave, it appears as if you could have crossed the
line into the middle of the junction (although if there was still
oncoming traffic, you would still have had to give priority to it, so
may not have gained much).
Some lights have timings and traffic flows which mean that only those
vehicles which move forward under the plain green light will ever get
to turn right, because the right turn filter is so short that nobody
still behind the line will be able to clear the junction before
conflicting traffic starts moving. *That may be why the driver behind
you got upset.

Drivers get upset for many reasons, blocking their free path with a
machine which is not subject to VED , "road tax", compulsory
insurance, annual service checks, fuel tax, VAT on fuel, seems to
annoy some more than others. Touring vans seem to bring on similar
tendencies.