Andre Jute explains how to mix ahead and quill steerer systems onbicycles without taking a faceplant

On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:30:06 PM UTC, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Andre Jute:
Theres a photograph of such an installation (with added wrinkles) on my Utopia Kranich at
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/...26347#msg26347

Am I the only one that feels uneasy about the mechanics of such a long
extension? I'm thinking hard stop, leaning on the bars....
--
Pete Cresswell

What are you talking about, Pete? If it is the vertical portion of the steerer under spacers above the bearing, it is designed to be that long, and the material quality and dimensions are scaled accordingly; nothing is off the shelf on this frame; if a custom part was required, it was designed and made by the best specialists available. If it is the stem's horizontal extension on your mind, rest easy, you're looking at finest Swiss engineering, designed to react an eighth-ton upwards (the Kranich has a guaranteed, much-test 170kg rating) of bike, luggage and rider braking at Alpine downhill speeds, not the weight-saving crap sold to roadies that has to be short to be stiff at all. No part of it has ever been known to break.

When I put my mind in gear after a bicycle and lots of highly rated but very unsatisfactory components I bought in error, the first thing I jettisoned was the irrational street corner myth that bicycle components must be light. Even so, my bike, out of the factory, with 60mm Big Apple Liteskins, Ultraleicht tubes, heavy Exal rims and heavy Sapim Strong spokes, rack, mudguards, Rolloff, SON, lamps front and rear, big triple-sprung leather saddle and grips, weighed 16.8kg, which actually in its class is a lightweight. Many a tourer in permanent useful trim, as described in this par, weighs much more.

Andre Jute

On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 10:39:43 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/18/2014 1:30 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Andre Jute:
Theres a photograph of such an installation (with added wrinkles) on my Utopia Kranich at
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/...26347#msg26347

Am I the only one that feels uneasy about the mechanics of such a long
extension? I'm thinking hard stop, leaning on the bars....

Despite his fantasy tale of drafting a truck fitted with a customized
plywood wind shield, I don't think Andre spends much time doing high
speeds or hard stops.

--
- Frank Krygowski

There you have it from the horse's ass, Pete. Franki-boy Krygowski claims to know more about how and where I ride than I do, and he thinks bolting a flat sheet of marine ply under the doors of a refrigerated truck is "a customized wind shield". When this ****** Krygo starts agreeing with you, you just gotta know you're off the tracks.

Andre Jute

On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:39:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/18/2014 1:30 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Andre Jute:
Theres a photograph of such an installation (with added wrinkles) on my Utopia Kranich at
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/...26347#msg26347

Am I the only one that feels uneasy about the mechanics of such a long
extension? I'm thinking hard stop, leaning on the bars....

Despite his fantasy tale of drafting a truck fitted with a customized
plywood wind shield, I don't think Andre spends much time doing high
speeds or hard stops.

If I remember correctly his excuse for building the electric bicycle
was that (1) he couldn't make it up the hill leading to his house and
(2) he was too cheap, or perhaps, too poor , to pay the license fee to
buy a small motorcycle.

Given that the pictures he has posted of the "electrical wonder"
showing his saddle he is obviously, as my grand mother would say,
"rather broad in the beam".

--
cheers,

John D.Slocomb

On 19/11/2014 9:48 AM, AMuzi wrote:

Soma Buena Vista:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg

That's very nice, and the Soma frame is nice too. By moving your shop a
year ago you lost an excellent photographic backdrop with the dome of
the State Capitol looming over the trees.

On a visit to Paris in spring 2013 I noticed that every second bicycle I
saw locked up on the street was a thirty or forty year old Peugeot
mixte. Any sort of mixte is rare in Australia.
PH

16.8kg is 10 pounds over the top for North America ? a question...

On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 9:47:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
16.8kg is 10 pounds over the top for North America ? a question...

http://www.thebicycleescape.com/bicycleweights.html

mtb is heavy...aluminum /

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 12:44:00 AM UTC+1, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:20:42 PM UTC, sms wrote:
Love the crossframe-mixte frame.

All of a sudden I started seeing a ton of mixte frames around my small
city which I thought was strange. Well it was one company, with
buildings scattered around town (for now anyway) that bought a load of
mixte frame bicycles for employees to go between buildings. They are
building a new headquarters which will allow them to get rid of most of
the small leased buildings that are all over the place and maybe they'll
sell off those bicycles when it's done in 2016.

http://publicbikes.com/c/mixte-bikes

http://www.wired.com/2011/07/apples-campus-bikes-are-classically-minimal/

It's too bad that mixtes have become a boutique item.

I think it is possible they always were. My bike is a recreation with modern, specially drawn Columbus tubes, of a bike first made right at the top of their range by the Locomotief company in 1936, and carried on as a prestige item until 1963 by Gazelle after they bought the Locomotief company as their top of the range brand leader. See the final part of
http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf

It is possible, if you read into the history of the frame, which was recognized as a landmark even in 1935 before production started, when nothing existed except a crossframe mixte tandem prototype, to conclude that it rose and fell with skirt and coat lengths; in its last years Gazelle kept it alive as transport for those priests who still wore long split coats.

Today Waterford, for instance, calls a dirt-common trapeze frame a "mixte" in the hope of catching some kudos, but it is a boutique lie.

In Europe you can get a mixte in a few lines at the sporting end of vakansiefietse, holiday bikes (sorta special commuter types city bikes too expensive to leave at the station, that you save for your holiday), but you have to pay a premium, and the thing is usually upspecced as well, so there aren't any cheap ones new. It's probably the result of the low-stepover granny "wave" frames selling so much better; if there were bigger unit numbers of mixte the price would fall.

Andre Jute

Besides that they are nicer to look what is the advantage of a mixed frame over a 'normal' stepover frame? A normal stepover frame is much easier to use with a skirt or for people who don't can't or want to swing their leg over the top tube. I always used one when I delivered newspapers or later the mail. At that time the stepover frame were very wimpy and I can imagine that a crossover frame would be much stiffer but nowadays with oversized aluminum tubing that is not the case anymore.

Lou

On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 7:13:21 AM UTC, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 12:44:00 AM UTC+1, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:20:42 PM UTC, sms wrote:
Love the crossframe-mixte frame.

All of a sudden I started seeing a ton of mixte frames around my small
city which I thought was strange. Well it was one company, with
buildings scattered around town (for now anyway) that bought a load of
mixte frame bicycles for employees to go between buildings. They are
building a new headquarters which will allow them to get rid of most of
the small leased buildings that are all over the place and maybe they'll
sell off those bicycles when it's done in 2016.

http://publicbikes.com/c/mixte-bikes

http://www.wired.com/2011/07/apples-campus-bikes-are-classically-minimal/

It's too bad that mixtes have become a boutique item.

I think it is possible they always were. My bike is a recreation with modern, specially drawn Columbus tubes, of a bike first made right at the top of their range by the Locomotief company in 1936, and carried on as a prestige item until 1963 by Gazelle after they bought the Locomotief company as their top of the range brand leader. See the final part of
http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf

It is possible, if you read into the history of the frame, which was recognized as a landmark even in 1935 before production started, when nothing existed except a crossframe mixte tandem prototype, to conclude that it rose and fell with skirt and coat lengths; in its last years Gazelle kept it alive as transport for those priests who still wore long split coats.

Today Waterford, for instance, calls a dirt-common trapeze frame a "mixte" in the hope of catching some kudos, but it is a boutique lie.

In Europe you can get a mixte in a few lines at the sporting end of vakansiefietse, holiday bikes (sorta special commuter types city bikes too expensive to leave at the station, that you save for your holiday), but you have to pay a premium, and the thing is usually upspecced as well, so there aren't any cheap ones new. It's probably the result of the low-stepover granny "wave" frames selling so much better; if there were bigger unit numbers of mixte the price would fall.

Andre Jute

Besides that they are nicer to look what is the advantage of a mixed frame over a 'normal' stepover frame? A normal stepover frame is much easier to use with a skirt or for people who don't can't or want to swing their leg over the top tube. I always used one when I delivered newspapers or later the mail. At that time the stepover frame were very wimpy and I can imagine that a crossover frame would be much stiffer but nowadays with oversized aluminum tubing that is not the case anymore.

Lou

If it is a real mixte frame -- as distinct from a flat trapeze frame traveling under false colors -- it is a pretty stiff construction because of the triangulation delivered by the lateral rails angled in three dimensions. If it is in addition a crossframe like mine, which has twenty-something triangles, it is stiffer than Dr Fiedler's admirable Rolls-Royce monocoque that for long set a standard. Whether all that stiffness is actually required on a bicycle is another matter. I appreciate the delicacy of the steering of my huge, long wheelbase bike at speed, and the predictable roadholding and handling that comes with it, which are in part the result of a bike that simply has no flex, so that once you grasp the exceptional limits of those huge balloons, you can with absolute confidence put it on a tickey time after time. Which is how come I came off in the dark: I put it on the tickey where a tractor or a truck had collapsed a section of the road into the ditch.... A lesser bike, even a good lesser bike, is slower because you need to leave a margin for the infelicities of steering and handling that come with barely perceptible slippages due to the frame not being stiff enough, never mind maximally stiff like my Kranich. Most roadies won't even know what I'm talking about, because all their lives they've made allowances for overlight bikes, but I come out auto and boat racing, where control at the edge is the difference between winning and being an also-ran.

Andre Jute

On 11/18/2014 6:30 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, November 19, 2014 12:03:27 AM UTC, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:48:40 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/18/2014 5:43 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:20:42 PM UTC, sms wrote:
Love the crossframe-mixte frame.

All of a sudden I started seeing a ton of mixte frames around my small
city which I thought was strange. Well it was one company, with
buildings scattered around town (for now anyway) that bought a load of
mixte frame bicycles for employees to go between buildings. They are
building a new headquarters which will allow them to get rid of most of
the small leased buildings that are all over the place and maybe they'll
sell off those bicycles when it's done in 2016.

http://publicbikes.com/c/mixte-bikes

http://www.wired.com/2011/07/apples-campus-bikes-are-classically-minimal/

It's too bad that mixtes have become a boutique item.

I think it is possible they always were. My bike is a recreation with modern, specially drawn Columbus tubes, of a bike first made right at the top of their range by the Locomotief company in 1936, and carried on as a prestige item until 1963 by Gazelle after they bought the Locomotief company as their top of the range brand leader. See the final part of
http://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf

It is possible, if you read into the history of the frame, which was recognized as a landmark even in 1935 before production started, when nothing existed except a crossframe mixte tandem prototype, to conclude that it rose and fell with skirt and coat lengths; in its last years Gazelle kept it alive as transport for those priests who still wore long split coats.

Today Waterford, for instance, calls a dirt-common trapeze frame a "mixte" in the hope of catching some kudos, but it is a boutique lie.

In Europe you can get a mixte in a few lines at the sporting end of vakansiefietse, holiday bikes (sorta special commuter types city bikes too expensive to leave at the station, that you save for your holiday), but you have to pay a premium, and the thing is usually upspecced as well, so there aren't any cheap ones new. It's probably the result of the low-stepover granny "wave" frames selling so much better; if there were bigger unit numbers of mixte the price would fall.

Andre Jute


Soma Buena Vista:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


for a design proven unfunctional there sure is a lot of it..

http://goo.gl/ANR8om

I thought Scharfie went into the Soma mixte a coupla years ago, though I can't remember what he concluded.

That would get to look like a nice frame if it carried a realistic price (i.e. not too much of a premium for being a mixte).

Andre Jute


Same price as their other Tange Prestige frames of that
series $420, $500 with fork or, if you prefer curves, their
New Albion at $350F/F:

http://store.somafab.com/mithfr.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/18/2014 7:13 PM, Peter Howard wrote:
On 19/11/2014 9:48 AM, AMuzi wrote:

Soma Buena Vista:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg

That's very nice, and the Soma frame is nice too. By moving
your shop a year ago you lost an excellent photographic
backdrop with the dome of the State Capitol looming over the
trees.

On a visit to Paris in spring 2013 I noticed that every
second bicycle I saw locked up on the street was a thirty or
forty year old Peugeot mixte. Any sort of mixte is rare in
Australia.
PH

Well, content remains interesting if background is less so:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/sanp14i.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971