question about climbing

On 02/08/2018 10:39 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-27 14:29, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:22:43 -0700,
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-27 14:07, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote:

[...]

... Any climbing experts in this group.

I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a necessary
evil of living in a hilly area. It's always a net 1200ft
coming back from the valley with lots of ups and downs in
between. Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er
rip on the downhills to gain momentum.

You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has one to
see what the real elevation gain is between Sacto and Cameron
Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra, probably 50%.

Good idea. This weekend I'll be riding with someone who has one
of those fancy GPS-driven "bicycle computers". Maybe it has
grade measurement, I'll ask him.

I use a Garmin Edge 500, not too pricey (nor big) and includes a
barometer. It can display grade on the fly, though it's not
always terribly accurate. On sustained climbs, it usually settles
in to something that is pretty close to real.


https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Heart-...dp/B010SDBFIE/

Over 300 bucks! In my book that is pricey. I think I'll continue living
not knowing what grade I just cycled up.


I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so miles...

That works out to a little under 8% constant grade--very
respectable!


It is.

Next week I'll have to go up something that probably does this in less
than two miles, on dirt with loose gravel. Not looking forward to that
section of trail except on the way back when we can bomb down those
switchbacks. Good thing is that my MTB has a granny gear.


You can use sites such as www.strava.com to see climbs in your area, and
average gradients, peak grades aren’t terribly accurate, as you’d expect.

Roger Merriman


RideWithGPS will show you the grades as you move along the route but
it's not extremely accurate either.

On 02/08/2018 10:49 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 07:39, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-29 03:33, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Saturday, July 28, 2018 at 9:08:33 PM UTC+2, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 2:39:21 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-27 14:29, Theodore Heise wrote:
snip

Over 300 bucks! In my book that is pricey. I think I'll continue
living
not knowing what grade I just cycled up.


The price of power meters has been dropping, and Garmin is feeling
pressure from Stages, Wahoo and others. For $300 you can now get
a 500
series Garmin with heart rate, maps, GPS and endless data to
peruse at
home.Â* I don't have so much as a cyclometer on any bike right
now, but I
do scavenge info from my friends who are fully instrumented. You
might
like the map function and accurate data if you're a data-driven
person.
You can use iPhone apps, too, but you have sketchy cell service
and a
satellite uplink is just what you need.Â* I think there is
mountain lion
radar and a automatic electronic defibrillator function, too.

-- Jay Beattie.


You can do most of that with a phone app now.Â* The only problem is
the
phone isn’t really visible in sunlight so run time info like speed
and
cadence isn’t great.Â* But you can get a Wahoo head unit with lcd
display
and connect it to RideWithGPS.Â* Not sure if it does altitude or
grade but
it’s a cheap option.

I have an Garmin 800 but if it ever dies I will look around for
options.
Some friends have 520s but they don’t do the mapping like the
800/1000.
Though they do give you turn by turn which is what I mostly use
anyway.


--
duane

If I lose mine today, I order I new one tomorrow. GPS is the best
invention for the bike (and car) after clipless pedals and
brifters. Some
of my riding buddies use their phones and the Strava app to record
their
rides. The elevation gain is always way off. Crap.

Lou


I wasn’t sure the Strava app even did elevation gain.Â*Â* I meant
there are
cheaper options now like Wahoo.Â* I’m a bit annoyed with my 800
because of
some bugs with the turn by turn and general navigation.Â* Some seem
to be
fixed in the 1000 firmware but Garmin stopped supporting firmware
upgrades
for the 800.

FWIW the Edge 800 that I have isn’t great on elevation gain either.Â* It
gets it close enough if it’s clear weather.


Strava does eleveation. A riding buddy uses Strava and it seems to be ok
in accuracy. Not great but ok. However, one needs a smart phone which I
don't have and don't need.


I assume you mean the app on the phone? I do have a smart phone but
since I
have a Garmin it’s not needed and I don’t use it to record etc, since the
Garmin is better.


Yes, on the phone. It works ok. Strava has some weirdnesses that are
related to how they wrote the software. For example, when calculating
average speed it does not deduct times that are clearly breaks such as
when eating a sandwich at a trail bench or fixing a nasty chain suck
like I had one happen yesterday.


It's configurable.

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/...277-Auto-Pause

On 2018-08-02 11:07, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 10:30:00 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 10:19, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 07:39, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-27 14:29, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:22:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-07-27 14:07, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote:

[...]

... Any climbing experts in this group.

I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a
necessary evil of living in a hilly area. It's
always a net 1200ft coming back from the valley
with lots of ups and downs in between.
Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er
rip on the downhills to gain momentum.

You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has
one to see what the real elevation gain is between
Sacto and Cameron Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra,
probably 50%.

Good idea. This weekend I'll be riding with someone who
has one of those fancy GPS-driven "bicycle computers".
Maybe it has grade measurement, I'll ask him.

I use a Garmin Edge 500, not too pricey (nor big) and
includes a barometer. It can display grade on the fly,
though it's not always terribly accurate. On sustained
climbs, it usually settles in to something that is pretty
close to real.


https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Heart-...dp/B010SDBFIE/



Over 300 bucks! In my book that is pricey. I think I'll continue living
not knowing what grade I just cycled up.


I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so
miles...

That works out to a little under 8% constant grade--very
respectable!


It is.

Next week I'll have to go up something that probably does
this in less than two miles, on dirt with loose gravel. Not
looking forward to that section of trail except on the way
back when we can bomb down those switchbacks. Good thing is
that my MTB has a granny gear.


You can use sites such as www.strava.com to see climbs in
your area, and average gradients, peak grades aren’t terribly
accurate, as you’d expect.


How does one find that information about a certain grade
without being a member there? Or maybe with being a member.
Yesterday I asked a riding buddy who has a smart phone to sign
up while he was over for dinner. If that's not possible we'll
just have to ride these grades again now that he is signed up.


You can search for them with out being a member though does rely
on knowing what the segment name for said hill is!

One nr? You may be https://www.strava.com/segments/1009727

The app has a fairly good interface for looking at segments, the
web site is not very good to be honest! In that it doesn’t show
all segments and as you move the map it changes etc.


Can't search anything there, it wants me to sign in. Oh well, I'll
just ride those grades this weekend with a buddy who signed up for
Strava yesterday. Then we should know.


I use Strava to plan routes, to follow/mildly guided on my
Garmin.

I’m fairly heavy but I’m a slow but strong climber so gradients
don’t phase me.


Same here except I really don't enjoy climbs. At all. I get up
there alright but grudgingly. The other downside of being a heavier
rider with lots of leg muscle is the frequent pretzeling of spokes
and freehubs. For me that usually happens on steep hills. Having
bought and loaded some supplies in the valley doesn't help. On the
MTB I managed to crunch a freehub within the warranty period and
the bike shop owner said that was a first.

There are plenty of big riders with "lots of leg muscle" who aren't
pretzeling spokes (whatever that means -- as opposed to breaking
them) or destroying free hubs. My son is 6'6" and generates lots of
watts, and he is pretty easy on equipment. No, he is not hauling
500lbs of oddities in panniers over mountain lion infested death
trails.


I am hauling at a minimum my own 220lbs, a steel frame bike, a full set
of tools and during summer a good dose of water.


... He rides on the road, and for the last four years before
returning home to PDX, most of his riding involved high-angle
climbing in the canyons of the Wasatch riding with the University of
Utah team. Until he got his Trek, he was riding my CAAD 9 with wheels
that I built for him that are in beautiful shape to this day -- old
Ultegra hubs, DT 14/15 3X spokes (32) and el-cheapo DT R460 rims. He
did get a spoke hole crack on a predecessor DT R450, but no failures.
You are buying junk or doing something wrong if you are ruining
freehubs and spokes with your massive leg muscles.


It's ok stuff, Mavic rims, stainless spokes, Shimano freehubs, Shimano
BB (I buy the most expensive versions for each bike). A few thousand
miles into it the BB on the road bike starts clicking again. Hurumph! I
no longer care much about such noise and ride it until the play is so
bad that the FD isn't wide enough for it. With friction shifters you can
let that go quite far.

Are the loud "angry bee" freehubs that some riders use better and
Shimano-compatible?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2018-08-02 11:23, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 10:19, Roger Merriman wrote:

[...]


I use Strava to plan routes, to follow/mildly guided on my Garmin.

I’m fairly heavy but I’m a slow but strong climber so gradients don’t phase
me.


Same here except I really don't enjoy climbs. At all. I get up there
alright but grudgingly. The other downside of being a heavier rider with
lots of leg muscle is the frequent pretzeling of spokes and freehubs.
For me that usually happens on steep hills. Having bought and loaded
some supplies in the valley doesn't help. On the MTB I managed to crunch
a freehub within the warranty period and the bike shop owner said that
was a first.


Not within strava no you’ll need to search using Google/search engine of
choice, for example Pikes peak Strava Segments will give you those, such as
https://www.strava.com/local/us/colorado-springs/cycling/routes/1521


Tried that for "Hollow Oak Drive" in El Dorado Hills. All I get is some
rider's general activity bars.


people don’t always use sensible names, MTBers in particular often use
silly names.


Yeah, like busted knee cap hill :-)


Or just sign up, and can search your area, costs nothing etc.


Maybe I'll have to. I'll try that on my friend's smart phone this
weekend. Though by that time we'll have ridden it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 11:23, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 10:19, Roger Merriman wrote:

[...]


I use Strava to plan routes, to follow/mildly guided on my Garmin.

I’m fairly heavy but I’m a slow but strong climber so gradients don’t phase
me.


Same here except I really don't enjoy climbs. At all. I get up there
alright but grudgingly. The other downside of being a heavier rider with
lots of leg muscle is the frequent pretzeling of spokes and freehubs.
For me that usually happens on steep hills. Having bought and loaded
some supplies in the valley doesn't help. On the MTB I managed to crunch
a freehub within the warranty period and the bike shop owner said that
was a first.


Not within strava no you’ll need to search using Google/search engine of
choice, for example Pikes peak Strava Segments will give you those, such as
https://www.strava.com/local/us/colorado-springs/cycling/routes/1521


Tried that for "Hollow Oak Drive" in El Dorado Hills. All I get is some
rider's general activity bars.


people don’t always use sensible names, MTBers in particular often use
silly names.


Yeah, like busted knee cap hill :-)


Or just sign up, and can search your area, costs nothing etc.


Maybe I'll have to. I'll try that on my friend's smart phone this
weekend. Though by that time we'll have ridden it.


You don’t need a smart phone, it’s generally better overall on a
computer/iPad ie though a browsers etc, though searching for segments is a
pain on the site, any how https://www.strava.com/segments/635981 should
be the badger. If not well so be it!

Roger Merriman

On 2018-08-02 12:18, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 11:23, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 10:19, Roger Merriman wrote:

[...]


I use Strava to plan routes, to follow/mildly guided on my Garmin.

I’m fairly heavy but I’m a slow but strong climber so gradients don’t phase
me.


Same here except I really don't enjoy climbs. At all. I get up there
alright but grudgingly. The other downside of being a heavier rider with
lots of leg muscle is the frequent pretzeling of spokes and freehubs.
For me that usually happens on steep hills. Having bought and loaded
some supplies in the valley doesn't help. On the MTB I managed to crunch
a freehub within the warranty period and the bike shop owner said that
was a first.


Not within strava no you’ll need to search using Google/search engine of
choice, for example Pikes peak Strava Segments will give you those, such as
https://www.strava.com/local/us/colorado-springs/cycling/routes/1521


Tried that for "Hollow Oak Drive" in El Dorado Hills. All I get is some
rider's general activity bars.


people don’t always use sensible names, MTBers in particular often use
silly names.


Yeah, like busted knee cap hill :-)


Or just sign up, and can search your area, costs nothing etc.


Maybe I'll have to. I'll try that on my friend's smart phone this
weekend. Though by that time we'll have ridden it.


You don’t need a smart phone, it’s generally better overall on a
computer/iPad ie though a browsers etc, though searching for segments is a
pain on the site, any how https://www.strava.com/segments/635981 should
be the badger. If not well so be it!


Yes, thanks, that is the one. Similar grade on the other side. During
summer with some load on the rack it sure feels like more than 11% :-)

It always amazes me that people can hammer up such hills at 10-15mph.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 8/2/2018 12:58 PM, wrote:
Il giorno giovedì 2 agosto 2018 16:30:20 UTC+2, ha scritto:

At that time, some forty years ago, the road, not paved yet, was very
rough. It used to be serviced a bit only when the Giro would pass there.
On the way down, back to Santa Apollonia, it was a lot more unpleasant and tiring. I flagged a car and asked to take me and my bike effortlessly down.

It is still a tiresome descent. This year we went up from Bormio. Some of us went down to Ponte di Legno to do that climb from that side also. There were scared ****less entering the unlit tunnel from bright sunlight in that descent. I did that descent a couple of years ago and I don't remember that it was that dangerous, was it lit then? Still I was glad I arrived in Pezzo. Our stop for that day.
Lou

Let me expand a bit.

I started cycling the passes in 1973 and for many years I used to do a couple of week-long bike tours every summer. Essentially I had never seen the Dolmites nor the Alps at large; I was motivated by the TV coverages of the Giro d'Italia.
Back then the south side of the Gavia, besides not being paved, did not have that tunnel (more or less half way up). Along that section the road ran particularly dangerous, obviously with no guard rail of any sort. Exactly there a very dramatic accident had happened years before when a military truck had gone off (with many casualties).

The Gavia was not the only major pass not being paved.
As I recall neither were the Selva di Cadore (south) side of the Giau and the Caprile (south-east) side of Fedaja.
Climbing up there was tough, but certainly rewarding.

There were almost no recreational cyclists around. Once in a while I came across tourists on motorcycles and it was common to salute each other while passing.

You may wonder how I managed to do week-long tours on my bike.
I shipped the bike by train, boarded a train to destination and took and sailed off by bike.
At the end of the tour, somewhere else for sure, I shipped the bike back and boarded a train to get home.

As simple as that... .

Sergio
Pisa




Here's an image Sergio sent from one of those climbs:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/sergdol2.jpg


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Here's an image Sergio sent from one of those climbs:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/sergdol2.jpg

Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Over here it is midnight and, not being able yet to fall asleep, I came back to my desk.
So here is a timely addendum to Andrew's.

That shot was taken some 25 years ago almost at the summit of the most beautiful road I have ever experienced.
It is Passo del Nivolet, in the western Alps between Piemonte and Valle d'Aosta.
The summit is at 2612 meters above sea level, inside Parco Nazionale del Gran Paradiso. After the summit there is a rather long plateau in a beautiful setting. From there on the path becomes a trail ultimately descending to Pont.

That time I carried on after the summit and hiked, while carrying the bike on my shoulder, to the village down below.

Hoping someone is listening let me strongly recommend him that ride, at least from Ceresole Reale to Nivolet (if not going over all the way).

Sergio
Pisa

On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 11:50:10 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 11:07, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 10:30:00 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 10:19, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 07:39, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-27 14:29, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:22:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-07-27 14:07, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote:

[...]

... Any climbing experts in this group.

I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a
necessary evil of living in a hilly area. It's
always a net 1200ft coming back from the valley
with lots of ups and downs in between.
Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er
rip on the downhills to gain momentum.

You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has
one to see what the real elevation gain is between
Sacto and Cameron Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra,
probably 50%.

Good idea. This weekend I'll be riding with someone who
has one of those fancy GPS-driven "bicycle computers".
Maybe it has grade measurement, I'll ask him.

I use a Garmin Edge 500, not too pricey (nor big) and
includes a barometer. It can display grade on the fly,
though it's not always terribly accurate. On sustained
climbs, it usually settles in to something that is pretty
close to real.


https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Heart-...dp/B010SDBFIE/



Over 300 bucks! In my book that is pricey. I think I'll continue living
not knowing what grade I just cycled up.


I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so
miles...

That works out to a little under 8% constant grade--very
respectable!


It is.

Next week I'll have to go up something that probably does
this in less than two miles, on dirt with loose gravel. Not
looking forward to that section of trail except on the way
back when we can bomb down those switchbacks. Good thing is
that my MTB has a granny gear.


You can use sites such as www.strava.com to see climbs in
your area, and average gradients, peak grades aren’t terribly
accurate, as you’d expect.


How does one find that information about a certain grade
without being a member there? Or maybe with being a member.
Yesterday I asked a riding buddy who has a smart phone to sign
up while he was over for dinner. If that's not possible we'll
just have to ride these grades again now that he is signed up.


You can search for them with out being a member though does rely
on knowing what the segment name for said hill is!

One nr? You may be https://www.strava.com/segments/1009727

The app has a fairly good interface for looking at segments, the
web site is not very good to be honest! In that it doesn’t show
all segments and as you move the map it changes etc.


Can't search anything there, it wants me to sign in. Oh well, I'll
just ride those grades this weekend with a buddy who signed up for
Strava yesterday. Then we should know.


I use Strava to plan routes, to follow/mildly guided on my
Garmin.

I’m fairly heavy but I’m a slow but strong climber so gradients
don’t phase me.


Same here except I really don't enjoy climbs. At all. I get up
there alright but grudgingly. The other downside of being a heavier
rider with lots of leg muscle is the frequent pretzeling of spokes
and freehubs. For me that usually happens on steep hills. Having
bought and loaded some supplies in the valley doesn't help. On the
MTB I managed to crunch a freehub within the warranty period and
the bike shop owner said that was a first.

There are plenty of big riders with "lots of leg muscle" who aren't
pretzeling spokes (whatever that means -- as opposed to breaking
them) or destroying free hubs. My son is 6'6" and generates lots of
watts, and he is pretty easy on equipment. No, he is not hauling
500lbs of oddities in panniers over mountain lion infested death
trails.


I am hauling at a minimum my own 220lbs, a steel frame bike, a full set
of tools and during summer a good dose of water.


... He rides on the road, and for the last four years before
returning home to PDX, most of his riding involved high-angle
climbing in the canyons of the Wasatch riding with the University of
Utah team. Until he got his Trek, he was riding my CAAD 9 with wheels
that I built for him that are in beautiful shape to this day -- old
Ultegra hubs, DT 14/15 3X spokes (32) and el-cheapo DT R460 rims. He
did get a spoke hole crack on a predecessor DT R450, but no failures.
You are buying junk or doing something wrong if you are ruining
freehubs and spokes with your massive leg muscles.


It's ok stuff, Mavic rims, stainless spokes, Shimano freehubs, Shimano
BB (I buy the most expensive versions for each bike). A few thousand
miles into it the BB on the road bike starts clicking again. Hurumph! I
no longer care much about such noise and ride it until the play is so
bad that the FD isn't wide enough for it. With friction shifters you can
let that go quite far.

Are the loud "angry bee" freehubs that some riders use better and
Shimano-compatible?

Octalink BBs suck, although not as bad as ISIS. Both suffer from too-small balls, although you may just need to reinstall with some teflon tape. That often cures snaps and creaks -- but if it is a pitted/deformed ball, you're screwed.

The angry-bee hubs are only better in that they have more points of engagement. 72 points of engagement with CK ring drive! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM1DJCryVEk Woohoo! My power is delivered .00001 second faster. I guess its a pretty tough design, but far too pricey for me.

Whether other angry bee designs are better in terms of longevity depends on bearing and metal quality. My OE Norco rear hub has a nice buzzing sound, but I would bet that they are dirt cheap Joytech OE hubs with equally cheap cartridge bearings.

And yes the angry bees are Shimano compatible unless you accidentally buy a Campagnolo compatible hub.

I need to press in a new bearing cartridge on my son's Vison Metron front wheel, which has a woefully undersized cartridge, IMO. I think they wanted to keep the flanges and hub body small. Anyway, knocking out and pressing in cartridges is more work than greasing some big, burly balls, but I guess the upside is that you never have to worry about wearing out a bearing cup or cone. I leave it to Andrew to opine on the durability issues of the two designs. My Shimano hubs have lasted a long time, and my Dura Ace wheels run really smoothly and have been durable so far.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/2/2018 6:59 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 11:50:10 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 11:07, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, August 2, 2018 at 10:30:00 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 10:19, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-08-02 07:39, Roger Merriman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-27 14:29, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 14:22:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-07-27 14:07, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:17:46 PM UTC-7, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-07-22 11:33, wrote:

[...]

... Any climbing experts in this group.

I am certainly not one. To me climbs are just a
necessary evil of living in a hilly area. It's
always a net 1200ft coming back from the valley
with lots of ups and downs in between.
Unfortunately it is not always possible to let'er
rip on the downhills to gain momentum.

You should get a Garmin or ride with someone who has
one to see what the real elevation gain is between
Sacto and Cameron Park. Saw-tooth climbs count extra,
probably 50%.

Good idea. This weekend I'll be riding with someone who
has one of those fancy GPS-driven "bicycle computers".
Maybe it has grade measurement, I'll ask him.

I use a Garmin Edge 500, not too pricey (nor big) and
includes a barometer. It can display grade on the fly,
though it's not always terribly accurate. On sustained
climbs, it usually settles in to something that is pretty
close to real.


https://www.amazon.com/Garmin-Heart-...dp/B010SDBFIE/



Over 300 bucks! In my book that is pricey. I think I'll continue living
not knowing what grade I just cycled up.


I did 1,200 feet of climbing in about three or so
miles...

That works out to a little under 8% constant grade--very
respectable!


It is.

Next week I'll have to go up something that probably does
this in less than two miles, on dirt with loose gravel. Not
looking forward to that section of trail except on the way
back when we can bomb down those switchbacks. Good thing is
that my MTB has a granny gear.


You can use sites such as www.strava.com to see climbs in
your area, and average gradients, peak grades aren’t terribly
accurate, as you’d expect.


How does one find that information about a certain grade
without being a member there? Or maybe with being a member.
Yesterday I asked a riding buddy who has a smart phone to sign
up while he was over for dinner. If that's not possible we'll
just have to ride these grades again now that he is signed up.


You can search for them with out being a member though does rely
on knowing what the segment name for said hill is!

One nr? You may be https://www.strava.com/segments/1009727

The app has a fairly good interface for looking at segments, the
web site is not very good to be honest! In that it doesn’t show
all segments and as you move the map it changes etc.


Can't search anything there, it wants me to sign in. Oh well, I'll
just ride those grades this weekend with a buddy who signed up for
Strava yesterday. Then we should know.


I use Strava to plan routes, to follow/mildly guided on my
Garmin.

I’m fairly heavy but I’m a slow but strong climber so gradients
don’t phase me.


Same here except I really don't enjoy climbs. At all. I get up
there alright but grudgingly. The other downside of being a heavier
rider with lots of leg muscle is the frequent pretzeling of spokes
and freehubs. For me that usually happens on steep hills. Having
bought and loaded some supplies in the valley doesn't help. On the
MTB I managed to crunch a freehub within the warranty period and
the bike shop owner said that was a first.

There are plenty of big riders with "lots of leg muscle" who aren't
pretzeling spokes (whatever that means -- as opposed to breaking
them) or destroying free hubs. My son is 6'6" and generates lots of
watts, and he is pretty easy on equipment. No, he is not hauling
500lbs of oddities in panniers over mountain lion infested death
trails.


I am hauling at a minimum my own 220lbs, a steel frame bike, a full set
of tools and during summer a good dose of water.


... He rides on the road, and for the last four years before
returning home to PDX, most of his riding involved high-angle
climbing in the canyons of the Wasatch riding with the University of
Utah team. Until he got his Trek, he was riding my CAAD 9 with wheels
that I built for him that are in beautiful shape to this day -- old
Ultegra hubs, DT 14/15 3X spokes (32) and el-cheapo DT R460 rims. He
did get a spoke hole crack on a predecessor DT R450, but no failures.
You are buying junk or doing something wrong if you are ruining
freehubs and spokes with your massive leg muscles.


It's ok stuff, Mavic rims, stainless spokes, Shimano freehubs, Shimano
BB (I buy the most expensive versions for each bike). A few thousand
miles into it the BB on the road bike starts clicking again. Hurumph! I
no longer care much about such noise and ride it until the play is so
bad that the FD isn't wide enough for it. With friction shifters you can
let that go quite far.

Are the loud "angry bee" freehubs that some riders use better and
Shimano-compatible?

Octalink BBs suck, although not as bad as ISIS. Both suffer from too-small balls, although you may just need to reinstall with some teflon tape. That often cures snaps and creaks -- but if it is a pitted/deformed ball, you're screwed.

The angry-bee hubs are only better in that they have more points of engagement. 72 points of engagement with CK ring drive! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM1DJCryVEk Woohoo! My power is delivered .00001 second faster. I guess its a pretty tough design, but far too pricey for me.

Whether other angry bee designs are better in terms of longevity depends on bearing and metal quality. My OE Norco rear hub has a nice buzzing sound, but I would bet that they are dirt cheap Joytech OE hubs with equally cheap cartridge bearings.

And yes the angry bees are Shimano compatible unless you accidentally buy a Campagnolo compatible hub.

I need to press in a new bearing cartridge on my son's Vison Metron front wheel, which has a woefully undersized cartridge, IMO. I think they wanted to keep the flanges and hub body small. Anyway, knocking out and pressing in cartridges is more work than greasing some big, burly balls, but I guess the upside is that you never have to worry about wearing out a bearing cup or cone. I leave it to Andrew to opine on the durability issues of the two designs. My Shimano hubs have lasted a long time, and my Dura Ace wheels run really smoothly and have been durable so far.

-- Jay Beattie.


Rider's choice.

We see Record hubs from the 1960s on their coupladozenth
rebuild which are smooth as silk and run well, just like
your classic DA and other quality loose ball systems. Hell
my winter bike has a Normandy Comp front,given to me in
1994, which is probably not top quality but with an annual
crap purge and rebuild is also just fine.

Cartridge units are mostly cheap to replace and of uniformly
OK quality even if you buy lower grade cartridges but as you
note every system has its outliers. Some current asian dreck
is a total pain to service (unlike, say, Phil Wood) and
would frustrate the home mechanic without tools.

That said even ancient Record hubs are less trouble if you
have a bearing press to set new cups:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/PRESBRND.JPG

So we have no general preference; we love and hate some of each.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971