Campy drivetrain setup for touring

I'm getting closer to figuring out what to do with my touring bike (13 year
old Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road currently w/ Suntour XC Comp; 130mm rear
spacing; 68mm bottom bracket). My plan is to strip it down this winter, and
send it out to be repainted and then rebuild it with a new drivetrain. So
now some questions...

For a number of reasons, I want to go with Campagnolo Ergo brifters on drop
bars and that drives a lot of the other decisions. Some have suggested that
I rebuild it w/ Shimano for more widespread service capability in almost any
city, but I just like the Campy Ergo better. I've read all the discussions
on combining Campy Ergo and Shimano, but feel that if starting from a clean
slate it's probably better to keep Ergo brifters/rear deraileur/rear
cassette/rear hub all Campy compatible. From a pratical standpoint, it also
probably makes sense to do this as a 10 speed setup given the longer spare
parts availability lifespan of going with what is current. I was figuring
on a front crankset which gives 26-36-48 and consider two rear cassettes
possibilities: 12-25 (~27.6 to 106.3 gear inches) or 13-29 (~23.8 to 98.1
gear inches). The current gearing goes from ~24.8 to 98.1 gear inches.
Does this sound like a solid plan?

I'd also rather be riding than tending after the bike so I much prefer
components with sealed bearings to keep maintanence to a minimum. From my
research it appears that none of the Campy rear hubs have sealed bearings.
However, the White Industries LTA Campy cassette hub does have them. Any
comments on the LTA hub? Are there any other Campy hubs out there worth
considering (I'm not interested in fancy factory built wheelsets with
proprietary or difficult to find spokes). The rear deraileur would be a
Campy long cage (although the medium cage would work if I only use the 12-25
or 13-26).

I'm assuming I can go with a more flexible array of gearing on the front
with the Ergo (vs. STI) - is this correct? I'm looking at an ISIS based
110/74 bcd mountain bike crankset with 26-36-48 9-speed rings. A LBS is
strongly suggesting I go ISIS and not square taper if possible. The
Raceface Turbine LP is one ISIS crankset available in 170mm length which can
be configured like this. Any comments on this crankset or others which
might fit the bill? Will the Raceface 9-speed chainrings likely be
compatible with a Campy 10 speed rear? How do you determine which size
bottom bracket is needed?The Raceface website says as a general guide, "For
narrow XC triple or double road - use a 108mm. For all around triple ring
setup - use a 113". Other than trial and error, is there a way to be sure
what size is right?

I've been wondering what to do for the front deraileur. I'm guessing the
Campy triple fronts are more optimized for larger chainrings (i.e. 30-40-50
or 30-42-53). Shimano seems like they have several front deraileurs whose
specifications say will handle a 46 or 48 big ring (FD-M761 (XT), or FD-M953
(XTR)). Both are available in bottom pull. Would these be my best bet for
the front?

Many thanks for all comments/review of this setup for touring.

rosco" reverse-the-following"ocsor_g wrote:
I've read all the discussions on combining Campy Ergo and Shimano,
but feel that if starting from a clean slate it's probably better to
keep Ergo brifters/rear deraileur/rear cassette/rear hub all Campy
compatible.

I tend to feel the same way but the larger Shimano cassettes could be
especially handy for a touring bike. You could have all-Campag (9 or
10sp) except Shimano hub and cassette. I use a Campag hub on my tourer
but that's mainly because I already had the wheel from a previous bike.

From a pratical standpoint, it also probably makes sense
to do this as a 10 speed setup given the longer spare parts
availability lifespan of going with what is current.

I don't think that is necessary because: 9-speed cassettes will be
available for a quite a while yet, 10sp rear derailleurs are compatible
with new 9sp Ergos and Ergos can always be converted to 10sp in future.
Apart from any thing else, you'll save money on replacement chain.

I was figuring
on a front crankset which gives 26-36-48

That would be good [using non-Campag cranks]. Ergo levers are compatible
with ALL cranksets and front derailleurs.
A 24T granny ring with Campag triple can work but is impractical and
annoying for anything other than the steepest hills, IME.
36T middle (with the kind of cassettes you're considering) would be
great for low speed cruising and the moderate climbs, and saves having to
use the granny so often, but a 39 or 40T (with good value Veloce cranks
and BB) is better for the faster cruising as you don't have to shift up to
the big ring so often and can use the closer spaced gears at the small end
of the block more of the time. Bit of a dilema there!

and consider two rear
cassettes possibilities: 12-25 (~27.6 to 106.3 gear inches) or 13-29
(~23.8 to 98.1 gear inches). The current gearing goes from ~24.8 to
98.1 gear inches.

You'll prpbably be grateful for a sprocket larger than 28T when climbing
steep hills fully laden. I use Campag 26-40-50 with 14-30 9sp on my
tourer*. Cassette is a Veloce customized with a Marchisio 30T sprocket.
* I've not done any proper touring on it yet but do sometimes have to
get up hills with very heavy loads, and quite frankly, I even appreciate
the granny gears on unloaded short rides.

I'd also rather be riding than tending after the bike so I much prefer
components with sealed bearings to keep maintanence to a minimum.
From my research it appears that none of the Campy rear hubs have
sealed bearings.

Mirage and Veloce rears do have so-called sealed cartridge bearings. They
seem to last well and the lack of any adjustment features reduces the
maintenance load. Mirage/Veloce 2004 front bearings are also "sealed".

The rear deraileur would be a Campy long cage (although the
medium cage would work if I only use the 12-25 or 13-26).

Despite the official limits, unless something has physically changed with
the 2004 medium cage derailleurs (the cage length has not) since 2003,
they actually work well with a 13-27 and 14-30 in my experience (with
26-39-52 and 26-40-50). All you have to do is use a chain as short as
possible for the big-big and avoid the smallest three or four sprockets
from the granny ring.

~PB

A 30T sprocket for Campy? Where did you get it?
And what cogs do you have in that casette?

Mann

"Pete Biggs" wrote in message
...
You'll prpbably be grateful for a sprocket larger than 28T when climbing
steep hills fully laden. I use Campag 26-40-50 with 14-30 9sp on my
tourer*. Cassette is a Veloce customized with a Marchisio 30T sprocket.

"Mann" wrote in message
...
A 30T sprocket for Campy? Where did you get it?
And what cogs do you have in that casette?


I believe he said it was customized using a Marchisio 30T sproket from
http://anysystem.de/




Mann

"Pete Biggs" wrote in
message
...
You'll prpbably be grateful for a sprocket larger than 28T when climbing
steep hills fully laden. I use Campag 26-40-50 with 14-30 9sp on my
tourer*. Cassette is a Veloce customized with a Marchisio 30T sprocket.

Also...

With a 9 or 10 spd triple, what is the guideline for which sprokets you
should avoid while on the middle chainring to avoid crossing the chain too
much? I only have 7 spd rear gearing, and I tend to avoid at minimum the
the biggest and smallest and use the 5 in between, but I guess it's a little
different with more gears back there.


"Pete Biggs" wrote in message
...
rosco" reverse-the-following"ocsor_g wrote:
I've read all the discussions on combining Campy Ergo and Shimano,
but feel that if starting from a clean slate it's probably better to
keep Ergo brifters/rear deraileur/rear cassette/rear hub all Campy
compatible.

I tend to feel the same way but the larger Shimano cassettes could be
especially handy for a touring bike. You could have all-Campag (9 or
10sp) except Shimano hub and cassette. I use a Campag hub on my tourer
but that's mainly because I already had the wheel from a previous bike.

From a pratical standpoint, it also probably makes sense
to do this as a 10 speed setup given the longer spare parts
availability lifespan of going with what is current.

I don't think that is necessary because: 9-speed cassettes will be
available for a quite a while yet, 10sp rear derailleurs are compatible
with new 9sp Ergos and Ergos can always be converted to 10sp in future.
Apart from any thing else, you'll save money on replacement chain.

I was figuring
on a front crankset which gives 26-36-48

That would be good [using non-Campag cranks]. Ergo levers are compatible
with ALL cranksets and front derailleurs.
A 24T granny ring with Campag triple can work but is impractical and
annoying for anything other than the steepest hills, IME.
36T middle (with the kind of cassettes you're considering) would be
great for low speed cruising and the moderate climbs, and saves having to
use the granny so often, but a 39 or 40T (with good value Veloce cranks
and BB) is better for the faster cruising as you don't have to shift up to
the big ring so often and can use the closer spaced gears at the small end
of the block more of the time. Bit of a dilema there!

and consider two rear
cassettes possibilities: 12-25 (~27.6 to 106.3 gear inches) or 13-29
(~23.8 to 98.1 gear inches). The current gearing goes from ~24.8 to
98.1 gear inches.

You'll prpbably be grateful for a sprocket larger than 28T when climbing
steep hills fully laden. I use Campag 26-40-50 with 14-30 9sp on my
tourer*. Cassette is a Veloce customized with a Marchisio 30T sprocket.
* I've not done any proper touring on it yet but do sometimes have to
get up hills with very heavy loads, and quite frankly, I even appreciate
the granny gears on unloaded short rides.

I'd also rather be riding than tending after the bike so I much prefer
components with sealed bearings to keep maintanence to a minimum.
From my research it appears that none of the Campy rear hubs have
sealed bearings.

Mirage and Veloce rears do have so-called sealed cartridge bearings. They
seem to last well and the lack of any adjustment features reduces the
maintenance load. Mirage/Veloce 2004 front bearings are also "sealed".

The rear deraileur would be a Campy long cage (although the
medium cage would work if I only use the 12-25 or 13-26).

Despite the official limits, unless something has physically changed with
the 2004 medium cage derailleurs (the cage length has not) since 2003,
they actually work well with a 13-27 and 14-30 in my experience (with
26-39-52 and 26-40-50). All you have to do is use a chain as short as
possible for the big-big and avoid the smallest three or four sprockets
from the granny ring.

~PB

ocsor- I want to go with Campagnolo Ergo brifters on drop
bars BRBR
From a pratical standpoint, it also
probably makes sense to do this as a 10 speed setup given the longer spare
parts availability lifespan of going with what is current. BRBR
I was figuring
on a front crankset which gives 26-36-48 and consider two rear cassettes
possibilities: 12-25 (~27.6 to 106.3 gear inches) or 13-29 (~23.8 to 98.1
gear inches). The current gearing goes from ~24.8 to 98.1 gear inches.
Does this sound like a solid plan? BRBR

yep...use a 110mm/74mm bolt diameter cranks, all the rest campagnolo...go
ride..

ocsor From my
research it appears that none of the Campy rear hubs have sealed bearings.
BRBR


Veloce and Mirage are sealed cartridge...

Are there any other Campy hubs out there worth
considering BRBR

shimano MTB hub, 135mm spacing, a DA 10s cogset?

ocsor-
I'm assuming I can go with a more flexible array of gearing on the front
with the Ergo (vs. STI) - is this correct? BRBR

Yep, with ERGO, iuse just about any crank/front der combo...

ocsor I'm looking at an ISIS based
110/74 bcd mountain bike crankset with 26-36-48 9-speed rings. A LBS is
strongly suggesting I go ISIS and not square taper if possible. BRBR


Not necessaary...call around and see who has square taper BBs andf ISIS in
stock...

ocsor Will the Raceface 9-speed chainrings likely be
compatible with a Campy 10 speed rear?

yep, w/o problem or modification..Use a 108mm for a standard frameset, a longer
one for aluminum or 135mm spacing.

ocsor-
I've been wondering what to do for the front deraileur. I'm guessing the
Campy triple fronts BRBR

Use a Campagnolo triple front, it will work fine...



Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

rosco- With a 9 or 10 spd triple, what is the guideline for which sprokets
you
should avoid while on the middle chainring to avoid crossing the chain too
much? BRBR

If designed properly, you should have full use of all the rear when in the
middle since the middle ring should be centered on the cogset...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Rosco wrote:
I'd also rather be riding than tending after the bike so I much
prefer components with sealed bearings to keep maintanence to a
minimum. From my research it appears that none of the Campy rear hubs
have sealed bearings.
Many thanks for all comments/review of this setup for touring.

Camppy hubs use loose balls and cones and have seals. You maybe mean
'cartridge' bearings?



--
--------------------------
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com

Mann wrote:
A 30T sprocket for Campy? Where did you get it?

http://anysystem.de in Germany. The same sprockets can be used with
Campag 8, 9 & 10sp and Shimano 7, 8 & 9sp by using different adaptors and
spacers. Each cog takes a separate adatptor.
Various UK suppliers also stock Marchsio products. I don't know about
availability within the US.

And what cogs do you have in that casette?

14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-30 (9-speed) (used with 26-40-50)

14-23 taken from a 14-28 Veloce; 26 from a 13-26 Veloce.

On my other 9sp Campag bike I have:
13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27 (used with 26-39-52)

13-24 from Veloce 13-26. 24 & 27 are Marchisios.

There is one obscure problem with the Marchisio sprockets: depending on
chainline, chain can derail from the largest cog when back-pedalling
(happened with the second cassette I mention on road bike, 14-30 on tourer
was fine). This is caused by the tooth profile. Various ways of getting
round it. No problems apart from that - although I don't personally know
what a complete Marchisio cassette shifts like (reviews vary).

~PB

rosco" reverse-the-following"ocsor_g wrote:
With a 9 or 10 spd triple, what is the guideline for which sprokets
you should avoid while on the middle chainring to avoid crossing the
chain too much? I only have 7 spd rear gearing, and I tend to avoid
at minimum the the biggest and smallest and use the 5 in between, but
I guess it's a little different with more gears back there.

All 9 sprockets from the middle ring can be used but I do notice some
unpleasant friction (caused by cross-over, felt through feet) so I tend to
avoid the largest and smallest, although do use the largest briefly
sometimes.
I'm sure this is helps efficiency and reduces wear - and it just
*feels* right anyway. I optimise my cassettes for this useage (making the
2nd largest sprocket large enough from the middle ring for the moderate
inclines to avoid shifting to the granny so much), otherwise a smaller
cassette with a smaller inner ring might be better.
Rest of middle sprockets are ok so 9sp vs 7sp is a non issue in this
regard. The cassette isn't hugely wider than 7sp HG because sprockets are
thinner and closer together. Note. 10sp Campag is same width as 9sp
Campag.

Chain stay length is a factor to how crossed over the chain will ever get.
There tends to be less of a problem on tourers with long wheel bases than
squashed up road racers. Recumbents is the ultimate example where I
believe you can use all sprockets from all chainrings with no trouble at
all.

~PB