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grosse scheidegg/swiss bike route #4 questions



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 28th 06, 01:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
[email protected]
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Default grosse scheidegg/swiss bike route #4 questions

Hello,
I am contemplating a 5 day trip to Switzerland next week. I have never
biked in Switzerland before, and hence thought I would stick with the
national bike routes--in paricular, bike route #4. See:

http://www.myswitzerland.com/en/navp...onalRoute.html

After browsing this NG and talking to some friends, I think I would
like to skip one of the daily segments--the Thun-Fluelen one--and
instead take the train from Thun to Lauterbrunnen, and bike from there
to Grindelwald, climb Grosse Scheidegg and then end up in Meiringen. I
would then take a train to rejoin route #4.

I've read Jobst Brandt's reports, which seem to indicate that there is
a paved road accessible to road bikes from Grindelwald over Scheidegg
and into Rosenlaui. I wanted to double check with the group to make
sure I was interpreting this correctly, as my Swiss map (Michelin 551)
indicates what appears to be an unpaved track, not a real road. I would
hate to get to Grindelwald and find out that's it's all gravel or
closed or whatever!

Also, any general comments from anyone who has familiarity with route
#4, or the Swiss regions it cuts through, would be greatly appreciated.
I am doing "credit card touring" on my road bike, and will be staying
in B&B's along the way. Will I need to worry about trains being too
full to accept more bikes? Advice on roads to avoid, sights not to be
missed, things to pack, etc.?

Thanks!
Vincent.

  #2  
Old July 28th 06, 02:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Roberto Divia
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Default grosse scheidegg/swiss bike route #4 questions

wrote:
I've read Jobst Brandt's reports, which seem to indicate that there is
a paved road accessible to road bikes from Grindelwald over Scheidegg
and into Rosenlaui. I wanted to double check with the group to make
sure I was interpreting this correctly, as my Swiss map (Michelin 551)
indicates what appears to be an unpaved track, not a real road. I would
hate to get to Grindelwald and find out that's it's all gravel or
closed or whatever!


It is a real road and - for about half of its length - it is closed to
normal traffic. It open for buses, residents and bikes. It can be
done without problems with a road bike (I did it three times).
It may be marked as unpaved due to the access restrictions. It used
to be a bit rough right above Meiringen but it has been completely
remade ~ two years ago.

I would do it the other way around (Meiringen, Gr,Scheidegg,
Grindelwald, Interlaken). IMHO much nicer. 14 Km between oing from
700 meter up to 1950 meters.

It is a steep road, bring good shoes and plenty of water (although
there are several streams where you can refill without problems).
Check your spare tyres, I had two flats due to very small stone chips
that got into the rubber and worked their way down to the inner tube.
Almost undetectable, they must be removed otherwise multiple flats
are unavoidable.

It is by far my # 1 road as personal preferences. I have a GPS track
and an Excel sheet for the uphill from Meiringen, let me know if
you'd like to have a copy.

Also, any general comments from anyone who has familiarity with route
#4, or the Swiss regions it cuts through, would be greatly appreciated.
I am doing "credit card touring" on my road bike, and will be staying
in B&B's along the way. Will I need to worry about trains being too
full to accept more bikes? Advice on roads to avoid, sights not to be
missed, things to pack, etc.?


Trains are almost never too full. Not all trains accept bikes, you will
have to check at the ticket stand. Service is very good, trains are
well marked and the composition is known in advance. You can get the
bike either in normal carriages (self-service) or in the Post carriage
(with the help of the personnel). All trains are non-smokers.

Avoid if possible to do the Brunig pass by bike. Too much traffic.
If you do, descend on Meiringen using the small road that
starts about one Km after the Brunig pass (you will have to turn left).
It has almost no traffic and it is a very nice descent.

I would recommend to do the Simmenthal, from Spiez to Aigle, via
Zweisimmen/Gstaad. Then either Mosses pass or Pillon pass. It is
a easy road, not too steep and with a beautiful view. Maybe avoid
doing it over the WE, traffic can be heavy otherwise. Do not take
the bike paths: they make very long, unnecessary detours and
are often unpaved. Use the main road. Drivers are OK and the road
itself is in very good state.

Let me know if I can be of any help for your planning.

Ciao,
--
Roberto Divia` Love at first sight is one of the greatest
Dep:PH Bat:53 Mailbox:C02110 labour-saving devices the world has ever seen
Route de Meyrin 385 ---------------------------------------------
Case Postale Phone: +41-22-767-4994
CH-1211 Geneve 23 CERN Fax: +41-22-767-9585
Switzerland E-Mail:

  #3  
Old July 28th 06, 05:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Ken Roberts
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Default grosse scheidegg/swiss bike route #4 questions

Thanks for the info about Gross Scheidegg -- I've been thinking of wanting
to ride that.

Roberto Divia wrote
Do not take the bike paths: they make very long, unnecessary detours and
are often unpaved.


I was very surprised when I included a bike path in a route last year in the
Engadin. At first it was smoothly paved and gentle. Then suddenly the
pavement ended and there were lots of steep ups and downs on dirt -- and the
dirt section was much much longer than the paved section. I was very glad
when I reached the end and I got back to riding on the main road.

Before that I had wondered why I was seeing so many people in Switzerland
riding on mountain bikes.

Vincent wrote:
Advice on ... sights not to be missed?


Not to be missed are the "sights" you make up for yourself. Leave time to
ride to some villages not in the guidebook that you never heard of before.

Ken


  #4  
Old July 28th 06, 06:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Ken Roberts
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Posts: 241
Default grosse scheidegg/swiss bike route #4 questions

One area I found nice for making up my own route thru "unknown" villages was
in the river valley a bit south from St Margarethen -- looks like that's
near the start of that official national route #4. Pleasant farm country,
lots of _choices_ among little roads. For that day, I decided to stay on
gentle terrain, but I could have gone up into the hills if I'd wanted.

Usually I just use 1:200000 road maps for my exploring, which for that
region means there are lots of little roads which are not shown on the
map. There's also a very detailed 1:60000 bicycling map for the St Gallen -
Appenzell region from Kummerly + Frey which shows lots of those little
roads. But sometimes in Europe I find it more interesting not to know the
details of the roads in advance. You have to decide what level of
exploration + navigation + risk you're ready to take on.

That would be my "not to be missed" experience between St Margarethen +
Appenzell: wandering off the official route onto roads I chose myself.

Ken


  #5  
Old July 28th 06, 09:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Martin Borsje
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Default grosse scheidegg/swiss bike route #4 questions

Ken Roberts thought the world would like to know that...
cut
I was very surprised when I included a bike path in a route last year in the
Engadin. At first it was smoothly paved and gentle. Then suddenly the
pavement ended and there were lots of steep ups and downs on dirt -- and the
dirt section was much much longer than the paved section. I was very glad
when I reached the end and I got back to riding on the main road.

Before that I had wondered why I was seeing so many people in Switzerland
riding on mountain bikes.


Was this the cycling route between Sankt Moritz and Zernez.

Got that experience overthere.
At the end we took of the "route" crossed a small river and caught the
main road again.

Martin
Netherlands


--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
  #6  
Old July 29th 06, 12:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Ken Roberts
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Posts: 241
Default grosse scheidegg/swiss bike route #4 questions

Roberto Divia wrote
I would recommend to do the Simmenthal ... either Mosses pass or Pillon
pass.


Does it add much interesting to climb over Col de la Croix go thru
Villars-sur-Ollon in addition to Col du Pillon?

Or is that mostly just more work?

Ken



  #7  
Old July 30th 06, 05:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
fastturtle
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Default grosse scheidegg/swiss bike route #4 questions

Le Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:00:56 +0000, Ken Roberts a écrit :

Roberto Divia wrote
I would recommend to do the Simmenthal ... either Mosses pass or Pillon
pass.


Does it add much interesting to climb over Col de la Croix go thru
Villars-sur-Ollon in addition to Col du Pillon?

Or is that mostly just more work?

Ken


It _is_ definitely more work !
  #8  
Old July 31st 06, 11:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Roberto Divia
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Default grosse scheidegg/swiss bike route #4 questions

Ken Roberts wrote:
Roberto Divia wrote
I would recommend to do the Simmenthal ... either Mosses pass or Pillon
pass.


Does it add much interesting to climb over Col de la Croix go thru
Villars-sur-Ollon in addition to Col du Pillon?


It is an interesting climb with a nice view on the Rhone river valley
and (partially) the Lake Leman during the descent. It makes an extra
col, with fewer cars/motorbikes than for the Mosses. Doing it from
Les Diableret is not such a tough climb. It is very tough coming up
from the other side (Bex/Villars). Just bring plenty of water, there
are no water sources of easy access, particularly in the 10 Kms around
the col. I always did it coming up from Bex and as first of my tours
in that region, so I have no direct experience on doing it the other
way around.

You can always go to Les Diableret via Pillon, then choose if to go
directly down to Aigle via the main road (mostly downhill) or going
via Col de la Croix.

Interesting hot spots for Col de la Croix:
- golf course at the top
- Villars (nice town)
- train-on-road during the descent
- salt mines in Bex (with guided visits, very interesting)

Ciao,
--
Roberto Divia` Love at first sight is one of the greatest
Dep:PH Bat:53 Mailbox:C02110 labour-saving devices the world has ever seen
Route de Meyrin 385 ---------------------------------------------
Case Postale Phone: +41-22-767-4994
CH-1211 Geneve 23 CERN Fax: +41-22-767-9585
Switzerland E-Mail:
  #9  
Old August 4th 06, 03:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
Ken Roberts
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Posts: 241
Default grosse scheidegg/swiss bike route #4 questions

That makes me think I'll try to fit Col de la Croix along with Pillon, if I
have enough hours on some day when I might be lucky to be there (perhaps
this year?). Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Roberto Divia wrote
[Col de la Croix] is an interesting climb with a nice view on the Rhone
river valley and (partially) the Lake Leman during the descent.


Another idea that's drawing my attention is Col du Grand Ferret between
Courmayeur IT and Orsieres CH (which I could do in a loop with Col Grand St
Bernard). And Sergio suggested I take look at Jobst Brandt's reports on Col
de la Seigne (between Val des Glaciers FR and Val Veny IT). I like the idea
of seeing the steep southeast side of the Mont Blanc massif. I understand
there is a lot of serious hiking with rolling (? sometimes carrying ?) my
bicycle over both Ferret and Seigne. I'm thinking maybe of making a big loop
starting at Orsieres, first south over Grand St Bernard to Aosta, then Petit
St Bernard (on paved roads) -- then return over Seigne and Ferret to
Orsieres.
Much more than I can ride in one day.

Ken


  #10  
Old August 4th 06, 10:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.rides
[email protected]
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Default grosse scheidegg/swiss bike route #4 questions


Ken Roberts ha scritto:

Another idea that's drawing my attention is Col du Grand Ferret between
Courmayeur IT and Orsieres CH (which I could do in a loop with Col Grand St
Bernard).


Much more than I can ride in one day.


Be aware that there is a tighter loop. to be done on a Mtb, called The
Tour of Mont Blanc.
It is presented as a four stage affair, although a friend of mine from
Roma has done it in only two days. For anyone interested in it, there
is a detailed report (in Italian) of that achievement.

Sergio
Pisa

 




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