If your team dopes to help you win is that cheating?

Interesting column in the Aspen Times by Roger Marolt where he basically states
that Lance's teammate(s) doped to help him win at least four TdFs. Doesn't
that constitute cheating?

"Professional cycling in events such
as Le Tour de France is a team sport.
No matter how physically gifted a man
might be, no matter how hard he trains,
no matter how fiercely determined he
is to succeed, he can't win a
multistage race of Le Tour's magnitude
(typically covering more than 2,100
miles in just three-and-a-half weeks
with nearly 100,000 vertical feet of
climbing along the way) without the
aid of an exceptionally talented team.

Given that absolute reliance on your
teammates then, was it not cheating
for Armstrong to rely on those who
used PEDs on his behalf to bring home
that coveted collection of yellow
jerseys? If PEDs aren't coursing
through your own legs, but rather
through the arteries and veins of
those who are pacing attack groups
for you and reeling in breakaways
for your benefit, doesn't that help
you win just the same as if you
injected the drugs into your own body?
If anything it is far more ignoble to
rely on others to take the risks of
infamy and ill health corresponding
with illegal drug use rather than do
them yourself in order to capture a
trophy you will reap the most reward
from. If nothing else, it's cowardly."

Here's the rest:
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20...ntprofile=1061

i, Fred

i, Fred wrote:
Interesting column in the Aspen Times by Roger Marolt where he basically states
that Lance's teammate(s) doped to help him win at least four TdFs. Doesn't
that constitute cheating?

"Professional cycling in events such
as Le Tour de France is a team sport.
No matter how physically gifted a man
might be, no matter how hard he trains,
no matter how fiercely determined he
is to succeed, he can't win a
multistage race of Le Tour's magnitude
(typically covering more than 2,100
miles in just three-and-a-half weeks
with nearly 100,000 vertical feet of
climbing along the way) without the
aid of an exceptionally talented team.

Given that absolute reliance on your
teammates then, was it not cheating
for Armstrong to rely on those who
used PEDs on his behalf to bring home
that coveted collection of yellow
jerseys? If PEDs aren't coursing
through your own legs, but rather
through the arteries and veins of
those who are pacing attack groups
for you and reeling in breakaways
for your benefit, doesn't that help
you win just the same as if you
injected the drugs into your own body?
If anything it is far more ignoble to
rely on others to take the risks of
infamy and ill health corresponding
with illegal drug use rather than do
them yourself in order to capture a
trophy you will reap the most reward
from. If nothing else, it's cowardly."

Here's the rest:
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20...ntprofile=1061

i, Fred

1. It stretches credibility past the breaking point to suggest that
Armstrong forced his team mates to dope while staying clean himself.

2. Am I supposed to feel sorry for poor old Tyler, Floyd, etc, for being
forced to dope against their will? I can't do it, I tried.

On 6/11/2010 5:36 PM, K. Fred Gauss wrote:

2. Am I supposed to feel sorry for poor old Tyler, Floyd, etc, for being
forced to dope against their will? I can't do it, I tried.

"... a l'insu de mon plein gre."

On 6/11/2010 4:51 PM, i, Fred wrote:

http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20...ntprofile=1061

Dumbass,

Gee, it's too bad nobody's ever come up with a suggestion on how to deal
with that.

On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:36:21 -0700, "K. Fred Gauss"
wrote:

2. Am I supposed to feel sorry for poor old Tyler, Floyd, etc, for being
forced to dope against their will? I can't do it, I tried.

Do some pity microdosing first, then go for the gold. Feel sorry for
Tugboat, then widen the circle.

I'm having problems with the whole concept that Floyd ever showed any
signs of a 'will'. He's like any inner city youth that drifted into a
life of drugs and crime, except they'd popped him long ago. rbr
relevance: They woulda probably called him a dumbass as they walked
away...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

K. Fred Gauss wrote:
2. Am I supposed to feel sorry for poor old Tyler, Floyd, etc, for being
forced to dope against their will? I can't do it, I tried.

Feel sorry for poor Jan Ullrich, who had a clean team(*)
and didn't win.

Fred Flintstein

(*) Remember that Zabel was not doping when he was winning
all those green jerseys. When he confessed it was only to
stuff before that.

i, Fred wrote:
Interesting column in the Aspen Times by Roger Marolt where he
basically states that Lance's teammate(s) doped to help him win at
least four TdFs. Doesn't that constitute cheating?

I think this is one of those, "If a tree falls in the forest but no one
hears it ..." sort of things.

-S-

On Jun 11, 5:51*pm, "i, Fred" wrote:
Interesting column in the Aspen Times by Roger Marolt where he basically states
that Lance's teammate(s) doped to help him win at least four TdFs. Doesn't
that constitute cheating?

"Professional cycling in events such
as Le Tour de France is a team sport.
No matter how physically gifted a man
might be, no matter how hard he trains,
no matter how fiercely determined he
is to succeed, he can't win a
multistage race of Le Tour's magnitude
(typically covering more than 2,100
miles in just three-and-a-half weeks
with nearly 100,000 vertical feet of
climbing along the way) without the
aid of an exceptionally talented team.


i, Fred

The argument makes no sense in that it is based on a faulty premise.
There have been times when a racer wins with a mediocre, if not poor,
team. For example, it's been said that Lemond won one TdF because of
his team, once with a weak team, and once in spite of his team. And
that's only looking at his actual wins. His virtual wins are another
story.

On Jun 11, 7:51*pm, "i, Fred" wrote:
Interesting column in the Aspen Times by Roger Marolt where he basically states
that Lance's teammate(s) doped to help him win at least four TdFs. Doesn't
that constitute cheating?

dumbass,

the argument is an old one (also under UCI rules cycling is only a
team sport). but cheating is only what is defined in the rules. it
might not be fair but it isn't cheating if your teammate dopes.

On Jun 11, 6:51*pm, "i, Fred" wrote:
Interesting column in the Aspen Times by Roger Marolt where he basically states
that Lance's teammate(s) doped to help him win at least four TdFs. Doesn't
that constitute cheating?

"Professional cycling in events such
as Le Tour de France is a team sport.
No matter how physically gifted a man
might be, no matter how hard he trains,
no matter how fiercely determined he
is to succeed, he can't win a
multistage race of Le Tour's magnitude
(typically covering more than 2,100
miles in just three-and-a-half weeks
with nearly 100,000 vertical feet of
climbing along the way) without the
aid of an exceptionally talented team.

Given that absolute reliance on your
teammates then, was it not cheating
for Armstrong to rely on those who
used PEDs on his behalf to bring home
that coveted collection of yellow
jerseys? If PEDs aren't coursing
through your own legs, but rather
through the arteries and veins of
those who are pacing attack groups
for you and reeling in breakaways
for your benefit, doesn't that help
you win just the same as if you
injected the drugs into your own body?
If anything it is far more ignoble to
rely on others to take the risks of
infamy and ill health corresponding
with illegal drug use rather than do
them yourself in order to capture a
trophy you will reap the most reward
from. If nothing else, it's cowardly."

Here's the rest:http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20...9968/1021&pare...

i, Fred

Lance is not that big of a coward to let ONLY his teammates dope, he's
a much smaller coward that would also dope.