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#91
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drill/tap in frames
On 12/07/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2018 11:26 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/12/2018 3:01 AM, sms wrote: On 7/11/2018 8:43 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:24:40 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: Exactly. Strong enough is strong enough. OK, so let's pretend that the tube with the Rivnut bent at 10% less tension.ÂÂ* Is that "strong enough"?ÂÂ* There's no way to tell without the original design calculations, or reverse engineering the frame with an FEA model.ÂÂ* Too bad Autodesk killed their online ForceEffect web app. http://blogs.autodesk.com/inventor/2017/01/17/autodesk-forceeffect-family-retirement/ I think I could have modeled the problem using the program. It's a bad experiment because it doesn't take into account whether or not the hole was properly drilled and the Rivnut properly installed. You also have to do it with the same aluminum tubing used on a bicycle frame, but even then it isn't accurate because there's no way to factor in metal fatigue which isn't an issue as much in steel as it is in aluminum. Remember, just because you can often get away with doing a really stupid thing, it doesn't mean that you should still do it. Remember, just because one person declares a practice to be stupid, it doesn't mean the practice really is stupid. In fact, if the practice (like the use of Rivnuts) is generally very successful, the stupidity probably lies elsewhere. Goes both ways.Â* Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left while visionaries look Right: https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...20nato%204.jpg Or maybe some people only look right, even when it's the wrong direction... |
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#92
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drill/tap in frames
On 7/12/2018 1:46 PM, Duane wrote:
On 12/07/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 7/12/2018 11:26 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/12/2018 3:01 AM, sms wrote: On 7/11/2018 8:43 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:24:40 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: Exactly. Strong enough is strong enough. OK, so let's pretend that the tube with the Rivnut bent at 10% less tension. Is that "strong enough"? There's no way to tell without the original design calculations, or reverse engineering the frame with an FEA model. Too bad Autodesk killed their online ForceEffect web app. http://blogs.autodesk.com/inventor/2017/01/17/autodesk-forceeffect-family-retirement/ I think I could have modeled the problem using the program. It's a bad experiment because it doesn't take into account whether or not the hole was properly drilled and the Rivnut properly installed. You also have to do it with the same aluminum tubing used on a bicycle frame, but even then it isn't accurate because there's no way to factor in metal fatigue which isn't an issue as much in steel as it is in aluminum. Remember, just because you can often get away with doing a really stupid thing, it doesn't mean that you should still do it. Remember, just because one person declares a practice to be stupid, it doesn't mean the practice really is stupid. In fact, if the practice (like the use of Rivnuts) is generally very successful, the stupidity probably lies elsewhere. Goes both ways. Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left while visionaries look Right: https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...20nato%204.jpg Or maybe some people only look right, even when it's the wrong direction... Yes as I noted, goes both ways. As Chou En Lai said of the effects of the French Revolution, it's too soon to say. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#93
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drill/tap in frames
On Thursday, July 12, 2018 at 1:06:52 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/12/2018 1:46 PM, Duane wrote: On 12/07/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 7/12/2018 11:26 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/12/2018 3:01 AM, sms wrote: On 7/11/2018 8:43 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 17:24:40 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: Exactly. Strong enough is strong enough. OK, so let's pretend that the tube with the Rivnut bent at 10% less tension. Is that "strong enough"? There's no way to tell without the original design calculations, or reverse engineering the frame with an FEA model. Too bad Autodesk killed their online ForceEffect web app. http://blogs.autodesk.com/inventor/2017/01/17/autodesk-forceeffect-family-retirement/ I think I could have modeled the problem using the program. It's a bad experiment because it doesn't take into account whether or not the hole was properly drilled and the Rivnut properly installed. You also have to do it with the same aluminum tubing used on a bicycle frame, but even then it isn't accurate because there's no way to factor in metal fatigue which isn't an issue as much in steel as it is in aluminum. Remember, just because you can often get away with doing a really stupid thing, it doesn't mean that you should still do it. Remember, just because one person declares a practice to be stupid, it doesn't mean the practice really is stupid. In fact, if the practice (like the use of Rivnuts) is generally very successful, the stupidity probably lies elsewhere. Goes both ways. Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left while visionaries look Right: https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...0nato%204..jpg Or maybe some people only look right, even when it's the wrong direction... Yes as I noted, goes both ways. As Chou En Lai said of the effects of the French Revolution, it's too soon to say. Crowd logic makes little difference when it comes to calculating material strength -- it's not like Trek puts its frames in a crowd and asks for opinions on the number of fatigue cycles it will withstand. It tends to use test fixtures. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT4yS5wTkY0 A qualified engineer could opine on whether rivnuts are good or bad for a particular application. It's not like the prophet SMS versus the blind rivnut believers! And the effects of the French Revolution were pretty easy to evaluate for Louis XVI. No mystery there, and living in a Blue State, the effect of Trump policy choices are immediately apparent, e.g. capped deduction for state taxes, pardoning dopes who burn public land, etc., etc. I don't need to wait 200 years to figure this one out. I'm being punished because my state voted "wrong." -- Jay Beattie. |
#94
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drill/tap in frames
On 7/12/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote:
Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left while visionaries look Right: https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...20nato%204.jpg Two proud parents waited for the middle school marching band to pass by during the town parade. Soon they saw all the children concentrating hard, blaring on their clarinets and trumpets, and marching left, right, left, right... Except for their own little boy, who was marching right, left, right, left. "Look, dear!" said the proud mother. "Everyone's out of step except our little Donnie!" -- - Frank Krygowski |
#95
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drill/tap in frames
On 7/12/2018 1:21 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: Then you should definitely not just drill and tap the frame tube itself. Why not? I give. Can someone else take over? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#96
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drill/tap in frames
On 13/07/18 03:21, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: Then you should definitely not just drill and tap the frame tube itself. Why not? The material is too thin. -- JS |
#97
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drill/tap in frames
James wrote:
Then you should definitely not just drill and tap the frame tube itself. Why not? The material is too thin. Is it more thick at the bottom of the bottom bracket shell and at the bottom-mid section of the down tube where I have seen this numerous times, and also the chainguard stays to the chainguard intersection? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#98
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drill/tap in frames
On 7/12/2018 4:20 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/12/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote: Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left while visionaries look Right: https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...20nato%204.jpg Two proud parents waited for the middle school marching band to pass by during the town parade. Soon they saw all the children concentrating hard, blaring on their clarinets and trumpets, and marching left, right, left, right... Except for their own little boy, who was marching right, left, right, left. "Look, dear!" said the proud mother. "Everyone's out of step except our little Donnie!" And little Galileo Galilei grew up in his own special way. Being not of the crowd goes both ways. It's not an argument for Tesla nor for Lysenko. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#99
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drill/tap in frames
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 17:20:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 7/12/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote: Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left while visionaries look Right: https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...20nato%204.jpg Two proud parents waited for the middle school marching band to pass by during the town parade. Soon they saw all the children concentrating hard, blaring on their clarinets and trumpets, and marching left, right, left, right... Except for their own little boy, who was marching right, left, right, left. "Look, dear!" said the proud mother. "Everyone's out of step except our little Donnie!" One always wonders whether there will be a secondary effect of some of these actions. The U.S. is the largest exporter of arms in the world with $10 billion of exports last year. How much of the $10 B is procured by Nato? One might also not want to ignore the fact that NATO IS a neuclar power with 200 odd neuclar bombs stored in various places in Europe. -- Cheers, John B. |
#100
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drill/tap in frames
On 7/12/2018 5:43 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 17:20:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 7/12/2018 12:50 PM, AMuzi wrote: Sometimes, the crowd looks to The Left while visionaries look Right: https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defa...20nato%204.jpg Two proud parents waited for the middle school marching band to pass by during the town parade. Soon they saw all the children concentrating hard, blaring on their clarinets and trumpets, and marching left, right, left, right... Except for their own little boy, who was marching right, left, right, left. "Look, dear!" said the proud mother. "Everyone's out of step except our little Donnie!" One always wonders whether there will be a secondary effect of some of these actions. The U.S. is the largest exporter of arms in the world with $10 billion of exports last year. How much of the $10 B is procured by Nato? One might also not want to ignore the fact that NATO IS a neuclar power with 200 odd neuclar bombs stored in various places in Europe. One might argue that we make good hardware, software, armament and kit. One might also argue that arms sales are more political than economic so quality, price or performance may not even be factors when compared to arm-bending 'deals one cannot refuse' as it were. How political can arms sales possibly be? https://sputniknews.com/us/201807081...ell-old-tanks/ Being Canadian, they wouldn't want their surplus tanks used to hurt people or anything like that: the list of potential buyers was rather short due to Canada's policy not to sell weapons to "problematic countries." https://globalnews.ca/news/4318852/c...orces-fizzles/ At least in the two wheeler world I really don't care about your personal morals once your charge card runs and your bike leaves my premises. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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