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#1
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Flying Pigeon [photos]
Here is one Flying Pigeon I recently observed
in the wild during an excursion of Asian ornithology. Compared to a Swedish or Norwegian standard bike from the same period of bicycle history, the Chinese have a lot of stays and small crutches everywhere, all bolted. The steel frame seems to be similar in style tho. The Chinese must have been very proud of their bike because it says "Flying Pigeon" everywhere, on the saddle (both in English and Chinese), on the chainguard, even on the rack! They say it is the "all-steel bicycle". I wonder what that is supposed to communicate tho, perhaps some comparison to earlier domestic bikes? The biggest qualitative differences seems to be 1) the rear hub, that doesn't have a coaster brake, and 2) the very interesting front and rear brakes! Because the bike has old-school V-rims, with a very little side area where a hand brake of the kind we are used to would squeeze (e.g., a side pull), instead the brakes are two big shackles, with the pads pointing upwards, and instead of squeezing the walls with mechanically moving parts, the whole thing is simply pulled upwards until it makes contact with the rim! Perhaps this requires more force, which is why instead of wires there are huge rods to drive the motion. Notice also that the rear brake is placed below the chainstays. The Flying Pigeon: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/front.jpg http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/hub.jpg http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/...rear-brake.jpg And one of ours, for comparison: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/hermes.jpg -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#2
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Flying Pigeon [photos]
On 6/10/2018 11:23 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Here is one Flying Pigeon I recently observed in the wild during an excursion of Asian ornithology. Compared to a Swedish or Norwegian standard bike from the same period of bicycle history, the Chinese have a lot of stays and small crutches everywhere, all bolted. The steel frame seems to be similar in style tho. The Chinese must have been very proud of their bike because it says "Flying Pigeon" everywhere, on the saddle (both in English and Chinese), on the chainguard, even on the rack! They say it is the "all-steel bicycle". I wonder what that is supposed to communicate tho, perhaps some comparison to earlier domestic bikes? The biggest qualitative differences seems to be 1) the rear hub, that doesn't have a coaster brake, and 2) the very interesting front and rear brakes! Because the bike has old-school V-rims, with a very little side area where a hand brake of the kind we are used to would squeeze (e.g., a side pull), instead the brakes are two big shackles, with the pads pointing upwards, and instead of squeezing the walls with mechanically moving parts, the whole thing is simply pulled upwards until it makes contact with the rim! Perhaps this requires more force, which is why instead of wires there are huge rods to drive the motion. Notice also that the rear brake is placed below the chainstays. The Flying Pigeon: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/front.jpg http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/hub.jpg http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/...rear-brake.jpg And one of ours, for comparison: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/hermes.jpg Flying Pigeon are completely derivative from the classic 1913 Raleigh roadster, albeit shoddily. Raleigh invented bulge-formed steel BB shells and lugs to replace the older cast iron fittings, hence their legendary status as the original "All Steel Bicycle". -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#3
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Flying Pigeon [photos]
AMuzi wrote:
Flying Pigeon are completely derivative from the classic 1913 Raleigh roadster, albeit shoddily. Raleigh invented bulge-formed steel BB shells and lugs to replace the older cast iron fittings, hence their legendary status as the original "All Steel Bicycle". OK, did they pay the English or did they just shamelessly copy their original design? One has to give them cred for persistance tho, even copying the "all steel" slogan! -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#4
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Flying Pigeon [photos]
On Sun, 10 Jun 2018 19:41:12 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote: AMuzi wrote: Flying Pigeon are completely derivative from the classic 1913 Raleigh roadster, albeit shoddily. Raleigh invented bulge-formed steel BB shells and lugs to replace the older cast iron fittings, hence their legendary status as the original "All Steel Bicycle". OK, did they pay the English or did they just shamelessly copy their original design? BWAAHAAHAAHAAAHAAA! You're a very funny fellow. Or perhaps oblivious to the reputation that Chinese companies have for stealing technology and design from the West. One has to give them cred for persistance tho, even copying the "all steel" slogan! That's not generally how the originators of tech and design see it... |
#5
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Flying Pigeon [photos]
Tim McNamara wrote:
OK, did they pay the English or did they just shamelessly copy their original design? BWAAHAAHAAHAAAHAAA! You're a very funny fellow. Or perhaps oblivious to the reputation that Chinese companies have for stealing technology and design from the West. I take it the Flying Pigeon was a state-funded project? How come the Chinese with all their resources had to bluntly copy an existing bike? With all their engineers and manufacturing manpower even in the 1950-80s or whenever the Flying Pigeon was at its peak, why couldn't they pick pieces from different bikes that they fancied, and put together something that wasn't really original in essence, but at least had its own style, look and feel? Also, why did they pick such an old bike to copy? (1913) Not that it was a bad bike, I'm sure it was great, but still a pre-WW1 bike? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#6
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Flying Pigeon [photos]
On 6/11/2018 6:34 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote: OK, did they pay the English or did they just shamelessly copy their original design? BWAAHAAHAAHAAAHAAA! You're a very funny fellow. Or perhaps oblivious to the reputation that Chinese companies have for stealing technology and design from the West. I take it the Flying Pigeon was a state-funded project? How come the Chinese with all their resources had to bluntly copy an existing bike? With all their engineers and manufacturing manpower even in the 1950-80s or whenever the Flying Pigeon was at its peak, why couldn't they pick pieces from different bikes that they fancied, and put together something that wasn't really original in essence, but at least had its own style, look and feel? Also, why did they pick such an old bike to copy? (1913) Not that it was a bad bike, I'm sure it was great, but still a pre-WW1 bike? We received Flying Pigeon samples in 1972 and even by the [low] standards of the day found them sorely wanting. We also received, unsolicited, a case of Mao's Little Red Book[1] nicely bound in red vinyl which sold like hotcakes. [1] otherwise known as Quotations from Chairman Mao, IMHO vastly overrated. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#7
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Flying Pigeon [photos]
I've ridden those in China. It's an experience.
There was a shop in L.A. importing them and selling them, complete with warnings about the quality, the difficulty of assembly, and the scarcity of parts. At Interbike last year I saw a new bike with rod brakes. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Vs26GExC_oC476V4oZl-dDn_2TcvWFCAuDZwjJN_MYE Search for "Rod Brakes Are Back!" for a photo. On 6/10/2018 9:23 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote: Here is one Flying Pigeon I recently observed in the wild during an excursion of Asian ornithology. Compared to a Swedish or Norwegian standard bike from the same period of bicycle history, the Chinese have a lot of stays and small crutches everywhere, all bolted. The steel frame seems to be similar in style tho. The Chinese must have been very proud of their bike because it says "Flying Pigeon" everywhere, on the saddle (both in English and Chinese), on the chainguard, even on the rack! They say it is the "all-steel bicycle". I wonder what that is supposed to communicate tho, perhaps some comparison to earlier domestic bikes? The biggest qualitative differences seems to be 1) the rear hub, that doesn't have a coaster brake, and 2) the very interesting front and rear brakes! Because the bike has old-school V-rims, with a very little side area where a hand brake of the kind we are used to would squeeze (e.g., a side pull), instead the brakes are two big shackles, with the pads pointing upwards, and instead of squeezing the walls with mechanically moving parts, the whole thing is simply pulled upwards until it makes contact with the rim! Perhaps this requires more force, which is why instead of wires there are huge rods to drive the motion. Notice also that the rear brake is placed below the chainstays. The Flying Pigeon: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/front.jpg http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/hub.jpg http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/...rear-brake.jpg And one of ours, for comparison: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/bike/pigeon/hermes.jpg |
#8
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Flying Pigeon [photos]
sms wrote:
At Interbike last year I saw a new bike with rod brakes. [...] Search for "Rod Brakes Are Back!" for a photo. If "rod brakes" is what they are called, I don't need to search for that for a photo, I already posted two in this very thread It is interesting you all speak of the poor quality. Because the bike looked pretty solid to me. It was in a poor state, sure, but I know what treatment they receive in general, year in year out, so I don't blame the bike first hand. The components and boltware had a lot of rust tho, so perhaps the quality of the stainless steel, if that's what it was, wasn't top notch. What are the pros and cons with rod brakes? I suppose the rods won't wear out like wires would. Also, with those kind of rims, it seems like a good option as any other option, save for disc and drum brakes, wouldn't do. Well, I suppose it is conceivable to construct a rim brake with moving parts to pull from beneath, only I haven't seen such a brake if indeed it was ever put together. Why the rims looked that way on older bikes, and what implications that had, is another thing, but I guess the modern ones in their different approaches are better, as the old flavor was abandoned, and that way back in bicycle history, right? -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#9
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Flying Pigeon [photos]
On 6/12/2018 3:03 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
sms wrote: At Interbike last year I saw a new bike with rod brakes. [...] Search for "Rod Brakes Are Back!" for a photo. If "rod brakes" is what they are called, I don't need to search for that for a photo, I already posted two in this very thread It is interesting you all speak of the poor quality. Because the bike looked pretty solid to me. It was in a poor state, sure, but I know what treatment they receive in general, year in year out, so I don't blame the bike first hand. The components and boltware had a lot of rust tho, so perhaps the quality of the stainless steel, if that's what it was, wasn't top notch. What are the pros and cons with rod brakes? I suppose the rods won't wear out like wires would. Also, with those kind of rims, it seems like a good option as any other option, save for disc and drum brakes, wouldn't do. Well, I suppose it is conceivable to construct a rim brake with moving parts to pull from beneath, only I haven't seen such a brake if indeed it was ever put together. Why the rims looked that way on older bikes, and what implications that had, is another thing, but I guess the modern ones in their different approaches are better, as the old flavor was abandoned, and that way back in bicycle history, right? The Italians still build beautiful, nice riding, elegant 'Tipo R' bicycles: https://bicivintage.myblog.it/media/...1539692852.jpg https://www.bikeitalia.it/wp-content...1/montante.jpg http://www.registrostoricocicli.com/...-n%C2%B0-1.jpg -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#10
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Flying Pigeon [photos]
AMuzi wrote:
The Italians still build beautiful, nice riding, elegant 'Tipo R' bicycles: https://bicivintage.myblog.it/media/...1539692852.jpg https://www.bikeitalia.it/wp-content...1/montante.jpg http://www.registrostoricocicli.com/...-n%C2%B0-1.jpg Indeed, that looks considerably better than the Flying Pigeon -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
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