#31
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wrote in message ... On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 21:26:05 +0100, "benjo maso" wrote: wrote in message . .. On 07 Nov 2004 21:19:25 GMT, (TritonRider) wrote: What is it about climbers anyways? THere was an article on the BBC website about pantani and how sometimes these climbers can be really fragile emotionally, or loners or just odd. Of course, poor Jimenez, and Luis Ocana, and there was another one, THierry (can't recall his last name, he was french. I'll look it up)who killed himself. It's like they're the sensitive artists who can't handle things or cope with the fame, drugs aside. Of course, there are plenty who aren't like that as we all know, but the climbers seem to be more vulnerable. Is it the thin air? It's the curse of René Pottier, the first "king of the mountains'' in the Tour. He crushed his opponents in 1906 and hung himself six months later. The Frenchman you referring to is Thierry Claveyrolat. He comitted suicide in 1999. On the other hand, many other first rate climbers weren't mentally fragile at all. For instance, Bahamontes, Bartali, Van Impe, Robic, Herrera, Virenque, etc. Gaul is another matter, but his problem was that he was hooked on amphitamine. Benjo Maso Yes, that was the guy's name, I found it anyways. There was a nice photo of him in the tour on the Alpe and it was a sad story. BUt you're absolutely right, plenty of these guys are perfectly sane and normal. I remember seeing Bahamontes on tv when they presented Virenque with his mountain jersey in 2003. Phil and Paul were commenting that except for his gray hair he looked exactly the same, and he did! I saw photos of him from his tour days and he looked almost the same except with black hair. HE's still in great shape. Herrera is apparently a bit eccentric, but it doesn't sound like he's suicidal or depressed or anything like that. ON graham watson's site there's a great photo of Herrera all covered in blood from a horrible crash, somewhere in the alps. Apparently, he went on to win that stage! Funny to think that with all the great spanish cyclists, the tour's first spanish winner wasn't until 1959! Spain hasn't been always a great cycling nation, as it is today. Before 1930 there have been only three spanish riders who had incidentally participated to the Tour (Blanco in 1910, Janer in 1920, 21, 24 and Canardo in 1928 and 1929). In 1930 Desgrange invited a full-size Spanish team was invited, but in 1931 it had been reduced to one rider (Cepeda). It took four more years before there was again a complete spanish team. At that time in Spain bicycle racing was clearly in the lift, but the Civil War was of course an enormous set back. After 1939 cycling became extremely popular and the star riders earned as much money as the famous matadors, but because Spain as a cycling nation was almost completely in isolation, the sport developed in a very peculiar way. Just as in Italy in the 1980's the stars weren't so much trying to win (they were payed anyway) as trying to make the their competitors lose and didn't hardly take any risks. Most races ended in mass sprints, even mountain stages. The climbers sprinted like madmen to arrive first a the top of the cols, but after that usually waited for the pack (just like Bahamontes in the Tour of '54). But although the spanish public was convinced that their own champions were the best riders of the world, the truth wa sthat they were not capable anymore to compete on an international level, as was shown in 1949 when Spain made its comeback in the Tour and the whole team abandoned the race after six stages. To avoid a new disaster the Spanish Cycling Union didn't even dare to sent a team to the World Championship nor to the Tour of 1950 and more or less forced their riders to participate to international races. So it was only in 1951 that Spain could really begin to play a serious role in the Tour. So that they had only eight years to wait for the victory of Bahamonts was after all not bad at all. Benjo |
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#32
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Stewart Fleming wrote:
gym gravity wrote: Legend has it that Virenque survived many days of grueling interrogation at the hands of the French police over the course of 10 months before confessing to systematic drug use. David Millar, however, a time trialist, caved after less than 48 hours over a measly few empty ampules of EPO. Draw your own conclusions. Virenque was signing autographs and posing for photos with policemen's wives... What about VeloRod's Mom? |
#33
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Stewart Fleming wrote:
gym gravity wrote: Legend has it that Virenque survived many days of grueling interrogation at the hands of the French police over the course of 10 months before confessing to systematic drug use. David Millar, however, a time trialist, caved after less than 48 hours over a measly few empty ampules of EPO. Draw your own conclusions. Virenque was signing autographs and posing for photos with policemen's wives... What about VeloRod's Mom? |
#34
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benjo maso wrote:
Spain hasn't been always a great cycling nation, as it is today. Before 1930 there have been only three spanish riders who had incidentally participated to the Tour (Blanco in 1910, ... All history books tell that Vicente Blanco "El Cojo" (The Crippled, because he had one leg longer than the other) was the first spaniard to ride the Tour. Not that he rode much, not at least officially. After riding from Bilbao to Paris to take the start, he was so exhausted that he couldn't make it to Roubaix the first day. But he really wasn't the first spanish rider at the Tour. Jose Maria Javierre took the start in 1909, and managed to finish 17th. Born in Jaca, his family had moved to France when he was only a child, and he used a French version of his name (Habierre) in his inscription. That explains he's always labeled as french, although it was not until he fought in WWI that he got the nationality. ... Janer in 1920, 21, 24 and Canardo in 1928 and 1929). That was Carmona, 4th in 1929 and the first spanish stage winer. Cañardo only rode the second half of 1928 as a replacement rider. There were other unknown spanish riders as well those years (Otero, Manteca, ...) In 1930 Desgrange invited a full-size Spanish team was invited, but in 1931 it had been reduced to one rider (Cepeda). It took four more years before there was again a complete spanish team. At that time in Spain bicycle racing was clearly in the lift, but the Civil War was of course an enormous set back. After 1939 cycling became extremely popular and the star riders earned as much money as the famous matadors, but because Spain as a cycling nation was almost completely in isolation, the sport developed in a very peculiar way. Just as in Italy in the 1980's the stars weren't so much trying to win (they were payed anyway) as trying to make the their competitors lose and didn't hardly take any risks. Most races ended in mass sprints, even mountain stages. The climbers sprinted like madmen to arrive first a the top of the cols, but after that usually waited for the pack (just like Bahamontes in the Tour of '54). The tradition of riding for the cols not for the win was started in the 30s by Trueba, first winner of the polka dot jersey (i guess it was not polka dot back then). By the way, Bahamontes only stopped to have an icecream at the summit of the Col de la Romeyère to wait for the repair car. He had several broken peaks and couldn't use the brakes as a result. Or at least this is what he claims. But although the spanish public was convinced that their own champions were the best riders of the world, the truth wa sthat they were not capable anymore to compete on an international level, as was shown in 1949 when Spain made its comeback in the Tour and the whole team abandoned the race after six stages. To avoid a new disaster the Spanish Cycling Union didn't even dare to sent a team to the World Championship nor to the Tour of 1950 and more or less forced their riders to participate to international races. So it was only in 1951 that Spain could really begin to play a serious role in the Tour. So that they had only eight years to wait for the victory of Bahamonts was after all not bad at all. Particularly when the next win only came after 14 years, and it took another 14 years for the third one. Of course, it was even worse with monuments (45 years separated Poblet and Freire wins) and worlds (Olano was the first gold) Jenko |
#35
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benjo maso wrote:
Spain hasn't been always a great cycling nation, as it is today. Before 1930 there have been only three spanish riders who had incidentally participated to the Tour (Blanco in 1910, ... All history books tell that Vicente Blanco "El Cojo" (The Crippled, because he had one leg longer than the other) was the first spaniard to ride the Tour. Not that he rode much, not at least officially. After riding from Bilbao to Paris to take the start, he was so exhausted that he couldn't make it to Roubaix the first day. But he really wasn't the first spanish rider at the Tour. Jose Maria Javierre took the start in 1909, and managed to finish 17th. Born in Jaca, his family had moved to France when he was only a child, and he used a French version of his name (Habierre) in his inscription. That explains he's always labeled as french, although it was not until he fought in WWI that he got the nationality. ... Janer in 1920, 21, 24 and Canardo in 1928 and 1929). That was Carmona, 4th in 1929 and the first spanish stage winer. Cañardo only rode the second half of 1928 as a replacement rider. There were other unknown spanish riders as well those years (Otero, Manteca, ...) In 1930 Desgrange invited a full-size Spanish team was invited, but in 1931 it had been reduced to one rider (Cepeda). It took four more years before there was again a complete spanish team. At that time in Spain bicycle racing was clearly in the lift, but the Civil War was of course an enormous set back. After 1939 cycling became extremely popular and the star riders earned as much money as the famous matadors, but because Spain as a cycling nation was almost completely in isolation, the sport developed in a very peculiar way. Just as in Italy in the 1980's the stars weren't so much trying to win (they were payed anyway) as trying to make the their competitors lose and didn't hardly take any risks. Most races ended in mass sprints, even mountain stages. The climbers sprinted like madmen to arrive first a the top of the cols, but after that usually waited for the pack (just like Bahamontes in the Tour of '54). The tradition of riding for the cols not for the win was started in the 30s by Trueba, first winner of the polka dot jersey (i guess it was not polka dot back then). By the way, Bahamontes only stopped to have an icecream at the summit of the Col de la Romeyère to wait for the repair car. He had several broken peaks and couldn't use the brakes as a result. Or at least this is what he claims. But although the spanish public was convinced that their own champions were the best riders of the world, the truth wa sthat they were not capable anymore to compete on an international level, as was shown in 1949 when Spain made its comeback in the Tour and the whole team abandoned the race after six stages. To avoid a new disaster the Spanish Cycling Union didn't even dare to sent a team to the World Championship nor to the Tour of 1950 and more or less forced their riders to participate to international races. So it was only in 1951 that Spain could really begin to play a serious role in the Tour. So that they had only eight years to wait for the victory of Bahamonts was after all not bad at all. Particularly when the next win only came after 14 years, and it took another 14 years for the third one. Of course, it was even worse with monuments (45 years separated Poblet and Freire wins) and worlds (Olano was the first gold) Jenko |
#36
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"Jenko" wrote in message ... benjo maso wrote: Spain hasn't been always a great cycling nation, as it is today. Before 1930 there have been only three spanish riders who had incidentally participated to the Tour (Blanco in 1910, ... All history books tell that Vicente Blanco "El Cojo" (The Crippled, because he had one leg longer than the other) was the first spaniard to ride the Tour. Not that he rode much, not at least officially. After riding from Bilbao to Paris to take the start, he was so exhausted that he couldn't make it to Roubaix the first day. But he really wasn't the first spanish rider at the Tour. Jose Maria Javierre took the start in 1909, and managed to finish 17th. Born in Jaca, his family had moved to France when he was only a child, and he used a French version of his name (Habierre) in his inscription. That explains he's always labeled as french, although it was not until he fought in WWI that he got the nationality. Interesting. I didn't know it. ... Janer in 1920, 21, 24 and Canardo in 1928 and 1929). That was Carmona, 4th in 1929 and the first spanish stage winer. Cañardo only rode the second half of 1928 as a replacement rider. There were other unknown spanish riders as well those years (Otero, Manteca, ...) I stand corrected. In 1930 Desgrange invited a full-size Spanish team was invited, but in 1931 it had been reduced to one rider (Cepeda). It took four more years before there was again a complete spanish team. At that time in Spain bicycle racing was clearly in the lift, but the Civil War was of course an enormous set back. After 1939 cycling became extremely popular and the star riders earned as much money as the famous matadors, but because Spain as a cycling nation was almost completely in isolation, the sport developed in a very peculiar way. Just as in Italy in the 1980's the stars weren't so much trying to win (they were payed anyway) as trying to make the their competitors lose and didn't hardly take any risks. Most races ended in mass sprints, even mountain stages. The climbers sprinted like madmen to arrive first a the top of the cols, but after that usually waited for the pack (just like Bahamontes in the Tour of '54). The tradition of riding for the cols not for the win was started in the 30s by Trueba, first winner of the polka dot jersey (i guess it was not polka dot back then). By the way, Bahamontes only stopped to have an icecream at the summit of the Col de la Romeyère to wait for the repair car. He had several broken peaks and couldn't use the brakes as a result. Or at least this is what he claims. Trueba didn't actually wait, but he was one of the worst descenders in the history of cycling. In the course of times Bahamontes has told several different versions of the incident on the top of the Romeyère. In 1954 (l'Equipe) he claimed he waited because he was afraid descending alone. By the way, it's almost certain he never eat an ice cream on the top of the Romeyère. First of all, the incident wasn't mentioned in the Equipe the day after. What's more, there are many pictures of Bahamontes made during the climb of the col. And yet nobody has ever seen a photo of him eating an icecream. I can hardly imagine that the photographers thought it wasn't worth the trouble, so IMO there can be only one explanation: the incident did never happen. Initially Bahamontes denied he had eaten an ice cream. Later he confirmed it and the last time I've seen him interviewed he said that he did accept an ice cream from one of the spectators, but instead of eating it, he put it in his drinking bottle. But again, there are no pictures of it. Benjo Maso |
#37
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"Jenko" wrote in message ... benjo maso wrote: Spain hasn't been always a great cycling nation, as it is today. Before 1930 there have been only three spanish riders who had incidentally participated to the Tour (Blanco in 1910, ... All history books tell that Vicente Blanco "El Cojo" (The Crippled, because he had one leg longer than the other) was the first spaniard to ride the Tour. Not that he rode much, not at least officially. After riding from Bilbao to Paris to take the start, he was so exhausted that he couldn't make it to Roubaix the first day. But he really wasn't the first spanish rider at the Tour. Jose Maria Javierre took the start in 1909, and managed to finish 17th. Born in Jaca, his family had moved to France when he was only a child, and he used a French version of his name (Habierre) in his inscription. That explains he's always labeled as french, although it was not until he fought in WWI that he got the nationality. Interesting. I didn't know it. ... Janer in 1920, 21, 24 and Canardo in 1928 and 1929). That was Carmona, 4th in 1929 and the first spanish stage winer. Cañardo only rode the second half of 1928 as a replacement rider. There were other unknown spanish riders as well those years (Otero, Manteca, ...) I stand corrected. In 1930 Desgrange invited a full-size Spanish team was invited, but in 1931 it had been reduced to one rider (Cepeda). It took four more years before there was again a complete spanish team. At that time in Spain bicycle racing was clearly in the lift, but the Civil War was of course an enormous set back. After 1939 cycling became extremely popular and the star riders earned as much money as the famous matadors, but because Spain as a cycling nation was almost completely in isolation, the sport developed in a very peculiar way. Just as in Italy in the 1980's the stars weren't so much trying to win (they were payed anyway) as trying to make the their competitors lose and didn't hardly take any risks. Most races ended in mass sprints, even mountain stages. The climbers sprinted like madmen to arrive first a the top of the cols, but after that usually waited for the pack (just like Bahamontes in the Tour of '54). The tradition of riding for the cols not for the win was started in the 30s by Trueba, first winner of the polka dot jersey (i guess it was not polka dot back then). By the way, Bahamontes only stopped to have an icecream at the summit of the Col de la Romeyère to wait for the repair car. He had several broken peaks and couldn't use the brakes as a result. Or at least this is what he claims. Trueba didn't actually wait, but he was one of the worst descenders in the history of cycling. In the course of times Bahamontes has told several different versions of the incident on the top of the Romeyère. In 1954 (l'Equipe) he claimed he waited because he was afraid descending alone. By the way, it's almost certain he never eat an ice cream on the top of the Romeyère. First of all, the incident wasn't mentioned in the Equipe the day after. What's more, there are many pictures of Bahamontes made during the climb of the col. And yet nobody has ever seen a photo of him eating an icecream. I can hardly imagine that the photographers thought it wasn't worth the trouble, so IMO there can be only one explanation: the incident did never happen. Initially Bahamontes denied he had eaten an ice cream. Later he confirmed it and the last time I've seen him interviewed he said that he did accept an ice cream from one of the spectators, but instead of eating it, he put it in his drinking bottle. But again, there are no pictures of it. Benjo Maso |
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