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Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?
As an aside to something on another thread I mentioned Bio-Pace
chainrings. Are these or similar shaped chainrings of any advantage to a casual or touring cyclist on a road bike? Thanks and cheers |
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#2
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Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?
On Dec 3, 3:23*pm, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
As an aside to something on another thread I mentioned Bio-Pace chainrings. Are these or similar shaped chainrings of any advantage to a casual or touring cyclist on a road bike? Thanks and cheers no, in my opinion, you have an uneven resistance to the pedal which likely will not match a riders specific musculoskeletal system; you then have an imbalance right where force is applied the most- an although a human body is infitely adaptable- I fail to see how such can provide a positive response |
#3
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Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?
On Dec 3, 8:23*pm, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
As an aside to something on another thread I mentioned Bio-Pace chainrings. Are these or similar shaped chainrings of any advantage to a casual or touring cyclist on a road bike? Thanks and cheers That's a religious taunt. |
#4
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Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?
Maybe Rotor Q-Rings could be helpful? Especially this part: "Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings."
From http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625/ Quote: "Effects of chainring design on performance in competitive cyclists" Christiane Rose O'Hara, Cal Poly Date of Award 8-2011 Degree Name MS in Kinesiology Department Kinesiology Advisor Robert D. Clark, Ph. D. Abstract The development of noncircular chainrings to improve cycling performance has been in progress since the 1980’s and continues apace. The aim of this study was to compare performance time and physiological responses in cycling using a standard circular chainring versus a noncircular chainring developed in 2005: the Rotor Q-Ring. Eight competitive male cyclists were pre-tested using the original circular chainrings and also on the initial week of testing. The intervention consisted of cycling with Rotor Q-Rings for four weeks. Post-testing occurred with the original chainrings for the final week of testing. Testing consisted of a maximal or submaximal graded exercise test followed by a 1 k time trial. Oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide output, heart rate, ventilation, respiratory exchange ratio, and perceived exertion were continuously measured during the tests. Blood lactate concentration was measured during the last 30 s of each three minute stage. Five minutes after the submaximal test, participants performed an “all out” 1 k trial for time as well as maximum and average power. The main findings we 1) Participants were on average 1.6 seconds faster in the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings compared to a circular chainrings. 2) There was a significant increase in average power (26.7 watts) and average speed (0.7 kph) during the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings. 3) Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings. However, in contrast to our hypotheses no benefits were observed for other submaximal dependent measures (i.e., CO2, VE, RER, RPE, GE, DE, and lactate). URL: http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625 End quote. |
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Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?
raamman wrote:
On Dec 3, 3:23 pm, Sir wrote: As an aside to something on another thread I mentioned Bio-Pace chainrings. Are these or similar shaped chainrings of any advantage to a casual or touring cyclist on a road bike? Thanks and cheers no, in my opinion, you have an uneven resistance to the pedal which likely will not match a riders specific musculoskeletal system; you then have an imbalance right where force is applied the most- an although a human body is infitely adaptable- I fail to see how such can provide a positive response Biopace benefits or detriments have been argued both ways for a long time, although it doesn't generate the passion of some other topics. FWIW, it's not a simple-minded gimmick. Shimano put some serious research into the development of the concept, and claimed theoretical justification for the shape, plus (IIRC) lab-measured benefits. I've hardly ever tried them, so I have no personal testimony. But I have one friend with knee problems who still uses them, claiming they really help his knees. I will say, given the complex articulation of the human leg during pedaling - the hip joint extending at a non-uniform rate, the knee joint first extending, then contracting - I'd be astonished if a round chainring were the absolute optimum shape. However, I'm prepared to accept that the performance difference between "absolute optimum" and "round" was very small. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#6
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Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?
On Dec 3, 9:54*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
raamman wrote: On Dec 3, 3:23 pm, Sir *wrote: As an aside to something on another thread I mentioned Bio-Pace chainrings. Are these or similar shaped chainrings of any advantage to a casual or touring cyclist on a road bike? Thanks and cheers no, in my opinion, you have an uneven resistance to the pedal which likely will not match a riders specific musculoskeletal system; you then have an imbalance right where force is applied the most- an although a human body is infitely adaptable- I fail to see how such can provide a positive response Biopace benefits or detriments have been argued both ways for a long time, although it doesn't generate the passion of some other topics. FWIW, it's not a simple-minded gimmick. *Shimano put some serious research into the development of the concept, and claimed theoretical justification for the shape, plus (IIRC) lab-measured benefits. I've hardly ever tried them, so I have no personal testimony. *But I have one friend with knee problems who still uses them, claiming they really help his knees. I will say, given the complex articulation of the human leg during pedaling - the hip joint extending at a non-uniform rate, the knee joint first extending, then contracting - I'd be astonished if a round chainring were the absolute optimum shape. *However, I'm prepared to accept that the performance difference between "absolute optimum" and "round" was very small. -- - Frank Krygowski The angular accelerations at the joints when using with circular chainrings are basically sinusoidal. There's no need to mess with perfection. Unfortunate loadings occur only when the angles are taken out of their ideal operating range, such as when using a poor position or too long cranks. It could well be that the Biopace rings correct the errors made by using an improper position or long cranks in a minority of riders. |
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Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?
On Dec 3, 9:19*pm, "
wrote: Maybe Rotor Q-Rings could be helpful? Especially this part: "Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings." Fromhttp://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625/ Quote: "Effects of chainring design on performance in competitive cyclists" Christiane Rose O'Hara, Cal Poly Date of Award 8-2011 Degree Name MS in Kinesiology Department Kinesiology Advisor Robert D. Clark, Ph. D. Abstract The development of noncircular chainrings to improve cycling performance has been in progress since the 1980’s and continues apace. The aim of this study was to compare performance time and physiological responses in cycling using a standard circular chainring versus a noncircular chainring developed in 2005: the Rotor Q-Ring. Eight competitive male cyclists were pre-tested using the original circular chainrings and also on the initial week of testing. The intervention consisted of cycling with Rotor Q-Rings for four weeks. Post-testing occurred with the original chainrings for the final week of testing. Testing consisted of a maximal or submaximal graded exercise test followed by a 1 k time trial. Oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide output, heart rate, ventilation, respiratory exchange ratio, and perceived exertion were continuously measured during the tests. Blood lactate concentration was measured during the last 30 s of each three minute stage. Five minutes after the submaximal test, participants performed an “all out” 1 k trial for time as well as maximum and average power. The main findings we 1) Participants were on average 1.6 seconds faster in the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings compared to a circular chainrings. 2) There was a significant increase in average power (26.7 watts) and average speed (0.7 kph) during the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings. 3) Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings. However, in contrast to our hypotheses no benefits were observed for other submaximal dependent measures (i.e., CO2, VE, RER, RPE, GE, DE, and lactate). URL:http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625 End quote. 4 weeks is too short to show real physiological adaptation. The psychological benefit is clearly evident in reduced heart rate and quicker times over 1km. Red paint is faster*. There is no increase in acid elimination, which is the limit on performance. *Note to self: Must get some red glitter nail varnish for pedal rivets and exle ends. |
#9
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Are Bio-pace or similar chainrings advantageous for touring?
On Dec 3, 4:34*pm, DougC wrote:
On 12/3/2011 3:19 PM, wrote: Maybe Rotor Q-Rings could be helpful? Especially this part: "Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings." *Fromhttp://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625/ Quote: "Effects of chainring design on performance in competitive cyclists" Christiane Rose O'Hara, Cal Poly Date of Award 8-2011 Degree Name MS in Kinesiology Department Kinesiology Advisor Robert D. Clark, Ph. D. Abstract The development of noncircular chainrings to improve cycling performance has been in progress since the 1980’s and continues apace. The aim of this study was to compare performance time and physiological responses in cycling using a standard circular chainring versus a noncircular chainring developed in 2005: the Rotor Q-Ring. Eight competitive male cyclists were pre-tested using the original circular chainrings and also on the initial week of testing. The intervention consisted of cycling with Rotor Q-Rings for four weeks. Post-testing occurred with the original chainrings for the final week of testing. Testing consisted of a maximal or submaximal graded exercise test followed by a 1 k time trial. Oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide output, heart rate, ventilation, respiratory exchange ratio, and perceived exertion were continuously measured during the tests. Blood lactate concentration was measured during the last 30 s of each three minute stage. Five minutes after the su bmaximal test, participants performed an “all out” 1 k trial for time as well as maximum and average power. The main findings we 1) Participants were on average 1.6 seconds faster in the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings compared to a circular chainrings. 2) There was a significant increase in average power (26.7 watts) and average speed (0.7 kph) during the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings. 3) Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings. However, in contrast to our hypotheses no benefits were observed for other submaximal dependent measures (i.e., CO2, VE, RER, RPE, GE, DE, and lactate). URL:http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625 End quote. The Bio-Pace chainrings didn't diverge nearly as much from a circular form as the Rotor Q-rings do. Below is a diagram I made once by tracing photos of each variety I could find photos of online, at the time. Note that the long-axis are not all aligned, nor are they drawn to scale--this was just to demonstrate the different shapes.http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...ies/recumbent/... That's a useful comparison of _shape_ but completely fails to take into account the _orientation_. Aside from a somewhat different shape, the primary distinguishing characteristic of BioPace rings was the seemingly inverted relation between crank orientation and effective chanring diameter. Most ovalized rings put the major axis of the oval about 90 degrees from the crankarms. BioPace rings put those two elements almost in line. With a Biopace ring the chain engages the maximum chainring diameter (greatest gear ratio) when the pedals are, respectively close to top and bottom dead center. With most other ovals the maximum chainring diameter occurs when the power pedal is at three o'clock or slightly below - the point at which it is presumably easiest for a rider to exert maximum torque. Hence, a comparison of shape alone offers little basis for full comparison. As you noted, the mounting of any ovalized ring can be rotated to an orientation different from its intended use. But I'm just the messenger and not trying to justify one over the other. I don't think there are broad generalizations to be drawn. If you like 'em there's no reason not to use 'em. And If you don't, so be it. DR |
#10
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Are Bio-pace or similar chainrings advantageous for touring?
On Dec 3, 6:35*pm, DirtRoadie wrote:
On Dec 3, 4:34*pm, DougC wrote: On 12/3/2011 3:19 PM, wrote: Maybe Rotor Q-Rings could be helpful? Especially this part: "Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings." *Fromhttp://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625/ Quote: "Effects of chainring design on performance in competitive cyclists" Christiane Rose O'Hara, Cal Poly Date of Award 8-2011 Degree Name MS in Kinesiology Department Kinesiology Advisor Robert D. Clark, Ph. D. Abstract The development of noncircular chainrings to improve cycling performance has been in progress since the 1980’s and continues apace. The aim of this study was to compare performance time and physiological responses in cycling using a standard circular chainring versus a noncircular chainring developed in 2005: the Rotor Q-Ring. Eight competitive male cyclists were pre-tested using the original circular chainrings and also on the initial week of testing. The intervention consisted of cycling with Rotor Q-Rings for four weeks. Post-testing occurred with the original chainrings for the final week of testing. Testing consisted of a maximal or submaximal graded exercise test followed by a 1 k time trial. Oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide output, heart rate, ventilation, respiratory exchange ratio, and perceived exertion were continuously measured during the tests. Blood lactate concentration was measured during the last 30 s of each three minute stage. Five minutes after the su bmaximal test, participants performed an “all out” 1 k trial for time as well as maximum and average power. The main findings we 1) Participants were on average 1.6 seconds faster in the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings compared to a circular chainrings. 2) There was a significant increase in average power (26.7 watts) and average speed (0.7 kph) during the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings. 3) Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings. However, in contrast to our hypotheses no benefits were observed for other submaximal dependent measures (i.e., CO2, VE, RER, RPE, GE, DE, and lactate). URL:http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625 End quote. The Bio-Pace chainrings didn't diverge nearly as much from a circular form as the Rotor Q-rings do. Below is a diagram I made once by tracing photos of each variety I could find photos of online, at the time. Note that the long-axis are not all aligned, nor are they drawn to scale--this was just to demonstrate the different shapes.http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...ies/recumbent/... That's *a useful *comparison of _shape_ but completely fails to take into account the _orientation_. Aside from a somewhat different shape, the primary distinguishing characteristic of BioPace rings was the seemingly inverted relation between crank orientation and effective chanring diameter. For further elaboration: http://sheldonbrown.com/biopace.html DR |
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