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Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 3rd 11, 09:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?

As an aside to something on another thread I mentioned Bio-Pace
chainrings. Are these or similar shaped chainrings of any advantage to
a casual or touring cyclist on a road bike?

Thanks and cheers
Ads
  #2  
Old December 3rd 11, 09:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
raamman
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Posts: 634
Default Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?

On Dec 3, 3:23*pm, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
As an aside to something on another thread I mentioned Bio-Pace
chainrings. Are these or similar shaped chainrings of any advantage to
a casual or touring cyclist on a road bike?

Thanks and cheers


no, in my opinion, you have an uneven resistance to the pedal which
likely will not match a riders specific musculoskeletal system; you
then have an imbalance right where force is applied the most- an
although a human body is infitely adaptable- I fail to see how such
can provide a positive response
  #3  
Old December 3rd 11, 09:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
thirty-six
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Posts: 10,049
Default Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?

On Dec 3, 8:23*pm, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
As an aside to something on another thread I mentioned Bio-Pace
chainrings. Are these or similar shaped chainrings of any advantage to
a casual or touring cyclist on a road bike?

Thanks and cheers


That's a religious taunt.
  #4  
Old December 3rd 11, 10:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 211
Default Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?

Maybe Rotor Q-Rings could be helpful? Especially this part: "Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings."

From http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625/

Quote:

"Effects of chainring design on performance in competitive cyclists"
Christiane Rose O'Hara, Cal Poly
Date of Award 8-2011
Degree Name MS in Kinesiology
Department Kinesiology
Advisor Robert D. Clark, Ph. D.

Abstract

The development of noncircular chainrings to improve cycling performance has been in progress since the 1980’s and continues apace. The aim of this study was to compare performance time and physiological responses in cycling using a standard circular chainring versus a noncircular chainring developed in 2005: the Rotor Q-Ring. Eight competitive male cyclists were pre-tested using the original circular chainrings and also on the initial week of testing. The intervention consisted of cycling with Rotor Q-Rings for four weeks. Post-testing occurred with the original chainrings for the final week of testing. Testing consisted of a maximal or submaximal graded exercise test followed by a 1 k time trial. Oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide output, heart rate, ventilation, respiratory exchange ratio, and perceived exertion were continuously measured during the tests. Blood lactate concentration was measured during the last 30 s of each three minute stage. Five minutes after the submaximal test, participants performed an “all out” 1 k trial for time as well as maximum and average power. The main findings we 1) Participants were on average 1.6 seconds faster in the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings compared to a circular chainrings. 2) There was a significant increase in average power (26.7 watts) and average speed (0.7 kph) during the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings. 3) Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings. However, in contrast to our hypotheses no benefits were observed for other submaximal dependent measures (i.e., CO2, VE, RER, RPE, GE, DE, and lactate).

URL: http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625

End quote.
  #5  
Old December 3rd 11, 10:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_3_]
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Posts: 1,365
Default Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?

raamman wrote:
On Dec 3, 3:23 pm, Sir wrote:
As an aside to something on another thread I mentioned Bio-Pace
chainrings. Are these or similar shaped chainrings of any advantage to
a casual or touring cyclist on a road bike?

Thanks and cheers


no, in my opinion, you have an uneven resistance to the pedal which
likely will not match a riders specific musculoskeletal system; you
then have an imbalance right where force is applied the most- an
although a human body is infitely adaptable- I fail to see how such
can provide a positive response


Biopace benefits or detriments have been argued both ways for a long
time, although it doesn't generate the passion of some other topics.

FWIW, it's not a simple-minded gimmick. Shimano put some serious
research into the development of the concept, and claimed theoretical
justification for the shape, plus (IIRC) lab-measured benefits.

I've hardly ever tried them, so I have no personal testimony. But I
have one friend with knee problems who still uses them, claiming they
really help his knees.

I will say, given the complex articulation of the human leg during
pedaling - the hip joint extending at a non-uniform rate, the knee joint
first extending, then contracting - I'd be astonished if a round
chainring were the absolute optimum shape. However, I'm prepared to
accept that the performance difference between "absolute optimum" and
"round" was very small.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #6  
Old December 4th 11, 12:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
thirty-six
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Posts: 10,049
Default Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?

On Dec 3, 9:54*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
raamman wrote:
On Dec 3, 3:23 pm, Sir *wrote:
As an aside to something on another thread I mentioned Bio-Pace
chainrings. Are these or similar shaped chainrings of any advantage to
a casual or touring cyclist on a road bike?


Thanks and cheers


no, in my opinion, you have an uneven resistance to the pedal which
likely will not match a riders specific musculoskeletal system; you
then have an imbalance right where force is applied the most- an
although a human body is infitely adaptable- I fail to see how such
can provide a positive response


Biopace benefits or detriments have been argued both ways for a long
time, although it doesn't generate the passion of some other topics.

FWIW, it's not a simple-minded gimmick. *Shimano put some serious
research into the development of the concept, and claimed theoretical
justification for the shape, plus (IIRC) lab-measured benefits.

I've hardly ever tried them, so I have no personal testimony. *But I
have one friend with knee problems who still uses them, claiming they
really help his knees.

I will say, given the complex articulation of the human leg during
pedaling - the hip joint extending at a non-uniform rate, the knee joint
first extending, then contracting - I'd be astonished if a round
chainring were the absolute optimum shape. *However, I'm prepared to
accept that the performance difference between "absolute optimum" and
"round" was very small.

--
- Frank Krygowski


The angular accelerations at the joints when using with circular
chainrings are basically sinusoidal. There's no need to mess with
perfection.
Unfortunate loadings occur only when the angles are taken out of
their ideal operating range, such as when using a poor position or too
long cranks.
It could well be that the Biopace rings correct the errors made by
using an improper position or long cranks in a minority of riders.
  #7  
Old December 4th 11, 12:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
thirty-six
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Posts: 10,049
Default Are Bio-pace or similat chainrings advantageous for touring?

On Dec 3, 9:19*pm, "
wrote:
Maybe Rotor Q-Rings could be helpful? Especially this part: "Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings."

Fromhttp://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625/

Quote:

"Effects of chainring design on performance in competitive cyclists"
Christiane Rose O'Hara, Cal Poly
Date of Award 8-2011
Degree Name MS in Kinesiology
Department Kinesiology
Advisor Robert D. Clark, Ph. D.

Abstract

The development of noncircular chainrings to improve cycling performance has been in progress since the 1980’s and continues apace. The aim of this study was to compare performance time and physiological responses in cycling using a standard circular chainring versus a noncircular chainring developed in 2005: the Rotor Q-Ring. Eight competitive male cyclists were pre-tested using the original circular chainrings and also on the initial week of testing. The intervention consisted of cycling with Rotor Q-Rings for four weeks. Post-testing occurred with the original chainrings for the final week of testing. Testing consisted of a maximal or submaximal graded exercise test followed by a 1 k time trial. Oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide output, heart rate, ventilation, respiratory exchange ratio, and perceived exertion were continuously measured during the tests. Blood lactate concentration was measured during the last 30 s of each three minute stage. Five minutes after the submaximal test, participants performed an “all out” 1 k trial for time as well as maximum and average power. The main findings we 1) Participants were on average 1.6 seconds faster in the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings compared to a circular chainrings. 2) There was a significant increase in average power (26.7 watts) and average speed (0.7 kph) during the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings. 3) Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings. However, in contrast to our hypotheses no benefits were observed for other submaximal dependent measures (i.e., CO2, VE, RER, RPE, GE, DE, and lactate).

URL:http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625

End quote.


4 weeks is too short to show real physiological adaptation. The
psychological benefit is clearly evident in reduced heart rate and
quicker times over 1km. Red paint is faster*. There is no increase
in acid elimination, which is the limit on performance.

*Note to self: Must get some red glitter nail varnish for pedal
rivets and exle ends.
  #8  
Old December 4th 11, 12:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DougC
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Posts: 1,276
Default Are Bio-pace or similar chainrings advantageous for touring?

On 12/3/2011 3:19 PM, wrote:
Maybe Rotor Q-Rings could be helpful? Especially this part: "Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings."

From
http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625/

Quote:

"Effects of chainring design on performance in competitive cyclists"
Christiane Rose O'Hara, Cal Poly
Date of Award 8-2011
Degree Name MS in Kinesiology
Department Kinesiology
Advisor Robert D. Clark, Ph. D.

Abstract

The development of noncircular chainrings to improve cycling performance has been in progress since the 1980’s and continues apace. The aim of this study was to compare performance time and physiological responses in cycling using a standard circular chainring versus a noncircular chainring developed in 2005: the Rotor Q-Ring. Eight competitive male cyclists were pre-tested using the original circular chainrings and also on the initial week of testing. The intervention consisted of cycling with Rotor Q-Rings for four weeks. Post-testing occurred with the original chainrings for the final week of testing. Testing consisted of a maximal or submaximal graded exercise test followed by a 1 k time trial. Oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide output, heart rate, ventilation, respiratory exchange ratio, and perceived exertion were continuously measured during the tests. Blood lactate concentration was measured during the last 30 s of each three minute stage. Five minutes after the su

bmaximal test, participants performed an “all out” 1 k trial for time as well as maximum and average power. The main findings we 1) Participants were on average 1.6 seconds faster in the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings compared to a circular chainrings. 2) There was a significant increase in average power (26.7 watts) and average speed (0.7 kph) during the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings. 3) Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings. However, in contrast to our hypotheses no benefits were observed for other submaximal dependent measures (i.e., CO2, VE, RER, RPE, GE, DE, and lactate).

URL: http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625

End quote.


The Bio-Pace chainrings didn't diverge nearly as much from a circular
form as the Rotor Q-rings do.

Below is a diagram I made once by tracing photos of each variety I could
find photos of online, at the time. Note that the long-axis are not all
aligned, nor are they drawn to scale--this was just to demonstrate the
different shapes.
http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...s/unround.html

In many photos the SR Ovaltech was so close to the BioPace that there
was no definite difference. I believe that Suntour also sold one that
was a BioPace clone as well, though I forgot the Suntour when I made the
diagram.

Highpath Engineering also made nonround chainrings for a long time, but
they were essentially custom-order, so there was no standard shape to
compare.

------


I have Q-rings on both my (road) bikes and they do help with the issue I
had, which was knee pain at the top of the pedal stroke at 65-75 miles+.

By orienting the Q-rings it is possible to shift leg stress somewhat
from the upper-portion of the pedal stroke into the lower-portion, when
the leg is more-straight and the knee can better support higher loads.

This is with them adjusted about 75 degrees away from their
usual-advised position, so I don't know if it increases power/speed or
not. Not being a racer or pretend-racer, I was never concerned about
that. It definitely helped with the knee issue though, when nothing else
available did.

I started out with a set on my 'long-distance' bike, and eventually put
a set on my commuter bike because the Q-rings just plain felt better all
the time, even though I never got the knee pain on the commuter bike.
The q-rings just plain felt right, and the normal round rings don't any
more.

The front shifting is slightly worse. And my pedal stroke is even more
"non-round" than it was before--but pedaling the bikes feels better,
longer.
  #9  
Old December 4th 11, 02:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DirtRoadie
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Posts: 2,915
Default Are Bio-pace or similar chainrings advantageous for touring?

On Dec 3, 4:34*pm, DougC wrote:
On 12/3/2011 3:19 PM, wrote:



Maybe Rotor Q-Rings could be helpful? Especially this part: "Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings."


*Fromhttp://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625/


Quote:


"Effects of chainring design on performance in competitive cyclists"
Christiane Rose O'Hara, Cal Poly
Date of Award 8-2011
Degree Name MS in Kinesiology
Department Kinesiology
Advisor Robert D. Clark, Ph. D.


Abstract


The development of noncircular chainrings to improve cycling performance has been in progress since the 1980’s and continues apace. The aim of this study was to compare performance time and physiological responses in cycling using a standard circular chainring versus a noncircular chainring developed in 2005: the Rotor Q-Ring. Eight competitive male cyclists were pre-tested using the original circular chainrings and also on the initial week of testing. The intervention consisted of cycling with Rotor Q-Rings for four weeks. Post-testing occurred with the original chainrings for the final week of testing. Testing consisted of a maximal or submaximal graded exercise test followed by a 1 k time trial. Oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide output, heart rate, ventilation, respiratory exchange ratio, and perceived exertion were continuously measured during the tests. Blood lactate concentration was measured during the last 30 s of each three minute stage. Five minutes after the su


bmaximal test, participants performed an “all out” 1 k trial for time as well as maximum and average power. The main findings we 1) Participants were on average 1.6 seconds faster in the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings compared to a circular chainrings. 2) There was a significant increase in average power (26.7 watts) and average speed (0.7 kph) during the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings. 3) Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings. However, in contrast to our hypotheses no benefits were observed for other submaximal dependent measures (i.e., CO2, VE, RER, RPE, GE, DE, and lactate).



URL:http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625


End quote.


The Bio-Pace chainrings didn't diverge nearly as much from a circular
form as the Rotor Q-rings do.

Below is a diagram I made once by tracing photos of each variety I could
find photos of online, at the time. Note that the long-axis are not all
aligned, nor are they drawn to scale--this was just to demonstrate the
different shapes.http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...ies/recumbent/...


That's a useful comparison of _shape_ but completely fails to take
into account the _orientation_. Aside from a somewhat different shape,
the primary distinguishing characteristic of BioPace rings was the
seemingly inverted relation between crank orientation and effective
chanring diameter. Most ovalized rings put the major axis of the oval
about 90 degrees from the crankarms. BioPace rings put those two
elements almost in line.
With a Biopace ring the chain engages the maximum chainring diameter
(greatest gear ratio) when the pedals are, respectively close to top
and bottom dead center. With most other ovals the maximum chainring
diameter occurs when the power pedal is at three o'clock or slightly
below - the point at which it is presumably easiest for a rider to
exert maximum torque.

Hence, a comparison of shape alone offers little basis for full
comparison. As you noted, the mounting of any ovalized ring can be
rotated to an orientation different from its intended use.


But I'm just the messenger and not trying to justify one over the
other. I don't think there are broad generalizations to be drawn. If
you like 'em there's no reason not to use 'em. And If you don't, so be
it.

DR
  #10  
Old December 4th 11, 03:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DirtRoadie
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Posts: 2,915
Default Are Bio-pace or similar chainrings advantageous for touring?

On Dec 3, 6:35*pm, DirtRoadie wrote:
On Dec 3, 4:34*pm, DougC wrote:





On 12/3/2011 3:19 PM, wrote:


Maybe Rotor Q-Rings could be helpful? Especially this part: "Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings."


*Fromhttp://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625/


Quote:


"Effects of chainring design on performance in competitive cyclists"
Christiane Rose O'Hara, Cal Poly
Date of Award 8-2011
Degree Name MS in Kinesiology
Department Kinesiology
Advisor Robert D. Clark, Ph. D.


Abstract


The development of noncircular chainrings to improve cycling performance has been in progress since the 1980’s and continues apace. The aim of this study was to compare performance time and physiological responses in cycling using a standard circular chainring versus a noncircular chainring developed in 2005: the Rotor Q-Ring. Eight competitive male cyclists were pre-tested using the original circular chainrings and also on the initial week of testing. The intervention consisted of cycling with Rotor Q-Rings for four weeks. Post-testing occurred with the original chainrings for the final week of testing. Testing consisted of a maximal or submaximal graded exercise test followed by a 1 k time trial. Oxygen consumption, carbon dioxide output, heart rate, ventilation, respiratory exchange ratio, and perceived exertion were continuously measured during the tests. Blood lactate concentration was measured during the last 30 s of each three minute stage. Five minutes after the su


bmaximal test, participants performed an “all out” 1 k trial for time as well as maximum and average power. The main findings we 1) Participants were on average 1.6 seconds faster in the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings compared to a circular chainrings. 2) There was a significant increase in average power (26.7 watts) and average speed (0.7 kph) during the 1 k time trial with Rotor Q-Rings. 3) Oxygen consumption (during weeks 2-4) and heart rate (weeks 1-3) were significantly lower with Rotor Q-Rings during submaximal testing when compared to circular chainrings. However, in contrast to our hypotheses no benefits were observed for other submaximal dependent measures (i.e., CO2, VE, RER, RPE, GE, DE, and lactate).


URL:http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/625


End quote.


The Bio-Pace chainrings didn't diverge nearly as much from a circular
form as the Rotor Q-rings do.


Below is a diagram I made once by tracing photos of each variety I could
find photos of online, at the time. Note that the long-axis are not all
aligned, nor are they drawn to scale--this was just to demonstrate the
different shapes.http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...ies/recumbent/...


That's *a useful *comparison of _shape_ but completely fails to take
into account the _orientation_. Aside from a somewhat different shape,
the primary distinguishing characteristic of BioPace rings was the
seemingly inverted relation between crank orientation and effective
chanring diameter.


For further elaboration:
http://sheldonbrown.com/biopace.html

DR
 




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