Who is a real cyclist ?

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 6:57:59 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:

Why must we be social? I don't waive to other car drivers. I signal. There are many times I just want to be left alone while riding. And in fact, if you see me by the side of the road fixing a flat, don't stop; don't ask me if I'm O.K. (which is obvious because I'm seating the last inch of bead). Just keep on riding. There have been times when I've been trying to fix a flat, and so many people ask me if I'm O.K., I feel like I'm manning an information booth.

Only too right. Cyclists are clearly such a persecuted minority, the next question would be whether you're such a loser that you voted for Hillary. Damned impertinent motons.

I live in a place where it is polite to say at least hello when you meet a cyclist or walker in the lanes. Not all of them welcome the attention, of course, either because they're curmudgeons or insufficiently socialized blow-in commuters to the nearest city. Once, lying on my back on wide bridge retaining wall at least seven miles out of town, admiring my new cycling watch, wondering about taking a nap, there arrived this old chappie jogging along veeeery slowly, his knuckles almost level with his ankles. "Good day to you, sir," I sang out cheerfully. "Keep it up and you'll live to be ninety," I added encouragingly. And the surly reply? "I'm ninety already, sonny."

AJ
Zero-win situations

Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 11:35:29 AM UTC+1, OK wrote:
Probably a homeless guy with depend on two-wheels is the real cyclist in
my view. Not guys with riding $5k bike on the bike lane who just use bike for
exercise or fun and these guys never use bike for main transporter.
And next real cyclist would be Dutch and Denmark cyclist using for a main transporter.

Mmm. I'm not homeless, but I gave up the car altogether in 1992 and have
cycled everywhere I wanted to go since then.

I don't claim to be a "real cyclist" but I get fed up with assholes who
own several automobiles telling me this or that class of cycling is "real cycling".

Here on RBT the underlying assumption is that only those who ride road
bikes with thin tyres and drop handlebars to work at not less than 25mph
are real cyclists. It's that foolish elitism and its counterproductive
presentation (together with the history of the growth of the automobile
and the associated infrastructure development) which will forever assure
that there will be no mass cycling movement in the States. It's what
makes the question of who are "real cyclists" and therefore the natural
"spokesmen for bicycles" so important. It's why I have consistently
stepped on Krygowski's dumb dream of himself as "a spokesman for
bicycles": he's a mindless moron with a bee in his bonnet.

Andre Jute
Recreational cyclist, and proud of it


Hmm. It seems to me just the opposite here. I’ve never seen someone
saying you have to be a roadie to be a cyclist. But it’s common here to
read the opposite. We have our intrepid Jeorg ranking on weight weenies
that won’t carry a growler and an iron lung with them. We have our
resident Vehicular Cyclist rep with his purple Lycra kit stuff. Even the
OP in this post is saying basically that only people depending on bikes for
their sole transport are real cyclist.

As a roadie who commutes, I find it ridiculous. Anyone riding bikes is a
cyclist and all have to be taken into account.

--
duane

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 4:29:01 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
And there are no refrigerator clubs, no refrigerator
competitions, no special refrigerator hats, so none of that for bikes.
- Frank Krygowski


No F--ing refrigerator hats in the Netherlands???? I'm definitely not immigrating there. I gots to have me a refrigerator hat, washing machine t-shirt, and microwave shoes!!! Uncivilized if yous don't got that.

On Saturday, September 1, 2018 at 1:33:49 PM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 11:35:29 AM UTC+1, OK wrote:
Probably a homeless guy with depend on two-wheels is the real cyclist in
my view. Not guys with riding $5k bike on the bike lane who just use bike for
exercise or fun and these guys never use bike for main transporter.
And next real cyclist would be Dutch and Denmark cyclist using for a main transporter.

Mmm. I'm not homeless, but I gave up the car altogether in 1992 and have
cycled everywhere I wanted to go since then.

I don't claim to be a "real cyclist" but I get fed up with assholes who
own several automobiles telling me this or that class of cycling is "real cycling".

Here on RBT the underlying assumption is that only those who ride road
bikes with thin tyres and drop handlebars to work at not less than 25mph
are real cyclists. It's that foolish elitism and its counterproductive
presentation (together with the history of the growth of the automobile
and the associated infrastructure development) which will forever assure
that there will be no mass cycling movement in the States. It's what
makes the question of who are "real cyclists" and therefore the natural
"spokesmen for bicycles" so important. It's why I have consistently
stepped on Krygowski's dumb dream of himself as "a spokesman for
bicycles": he's a mindless moron with a bee in his bonnet.

Andre Jute
Recreational cyclist, and proud of it


Hmm. It seems to me just the opposite here. I’ve never seen someone
saying you have to be a roadie to be a cyclist. But it’s common here to
read the opposite. We have our intrepid Jeorg ranking on weight weenies
that won’t carry a growler and an iron lung with them. We have our
resident Vehicular Cyclist rep with his purple Lycra kit stuff. Even the
OP in this post is saying basically that only people depending on bikes for
their sole transport are real cyclist.

As a roadie who commutes, I find it ridiculous. Anyone riding bikes is a
cyclist and all have to be taken into account.

O.K., I'm a failure as a real cyclist. I'll admit it. I waived half-heartedly at a few people today, and I was entirely unreceptive to some guy who rode up behind my son and I as we were loping up a hill talking. "Hey, where you going," and then random comments that seemed to be responsive to what my son had said to me (we were talking about his work). And this guy was behind me -- not next to me. I'm not a f****** owl. We responded politely; my son hit the gas and that was that, but we were doing an odd route of road and trail, and this guy kept showing up. Do I have to talk to these people? Really? When I engage other riders, I come along side or I announce that I am lurking behind, but I don't ride up on people yaking. Too weird. Everyone is not my brother of the road. Sorry. I will immediately relinquish my real cyclist card.

It was a short ride. 35 miles, 3K of climbing, and my son got KOM on some Strava climbing segment -- for a guy of his weight, age, hair color, general disposition, political affiliation and handedness. He's apparently going mano a mano with some other big guy on Strava for popular segments. The whole Strava thing is just too much for me. I'm still trying to figure out how he can get a two minute gap in 30 seconds. I look forward to the old guy ride tomorrow.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Saturday, September 1, 2018 at 6:46:46 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
Snipped
O.K., I'm a failure as a real cyclist. I'll admit it. I waived half-heartedly at a few people today, and I was entirely unreceptive to some guy who rode up behind my son and I as we were loping up a hill talking. "Hey, where you going," and then random comments that seemed to be responsive to what my son had said to me (we were talking about his work). And this guy was behind me -- not next to me. I'm not a f****** owl. We responded politely; my son hit the gas and that was that, but we were doing an odd route of road and trail, and this guy kept showing up. Do I have to talk to these people? Really? When I engage other riders, I come along side or I announce that I am lurking behind, but I don't ride up on people yaking. Too weird. Everyone is not my brother of the road. Sorry. I will immediately relinquish my real cyclist card.

It was a short ride. 35 miles, 3K of climbing, and my son got KOM on some Strava climbing segment -- for a guy of his weight, age, hair color, general disposition, political affiliation and handedness. He's apparently going mano a mano with some other big guy on Strava for popular segments. The whole Strava thing is just too much for me. I'm still trying to figure out how he can get a two minute gap in 30 seconds. I look forward to the old guy ride tomorrow.

-- Jay Beattie.

I think one could "waive" a trial buy jury and then "wave" bye bye as they're led away. VBEG LOL

Bicyclist = a person who rides a bicyclist.

Cheers

On Saturday, September 1, 2018 at 6:46:46 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

O.K., I'm a failure as a real cyclist. I'll admit it. I waived half-heartedly at a few people today, and I was entirely unreceptive to some guy who rode up behind my son and I as we were loping up a hill talking. "Hey, where you going," and then random comments... Do I have to talk to these people? Really?

No, you don't have to talk to them. But you do have to learn to spell "wave.."

This confusion about waving shouldn't be so hard to understand. It relates to
feelings of kinship, which relate to relative uniqueness.

I imagine that when the first automobiles hit the roads, every motorist waved
to every other one. They were fellow members of a small society within a much
bigger one. You'd see the same behavior between (say) two French natives in
a typical American city. I saw it between two black engineers among a couple
hundred white male engineers in a big company. It's an acknowledgement that
"Hey, you're kind of like me. We could become friends."

But there are regional differences. My kid lived in the NW PDX alphabet blocks.
We'd walk through the crowds on 23rd (IIRC) and she'd smile and say "hi" to
strangers. That's just not done where I live. Maybe a nod, if there was nobody
else around, but that's it.

And it was strange to me living down south. In that rural southern state, if
you passed another motor vehicle, you were expected to raise your index finger -
just your index finger! - from the steering wheel.

But you didn't do that driving in traffic in town. And motorists elsewhere
don't wave at motorists at all, because everyone is a motorist. In PDX, damn
near everyone (it seems) is a bicyclist - or rather, the "critical mass" has
grown so large that there's little or no feeling of kinship. You're just
another dude on a bike. (Yawn.)

About the talking guy: Weird stuff like that happens in other places. I've
had it standing in line at the pharmacy. I couldn't really say "Leave me alone,
I just want to buy my deodorant and pills to cure my ailment." So I said
something like "Uh huh" and hoped he would get the hint. It happens.

- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, September 1, 2018 at 6:56:14 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, September 1, 2018 at 6:46:46 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

O.K., I'm a failure as a real cyclist. I'll admit it. I waived half-heartedly at a few people today, and I was entirely unreceptive to some guy who rode up behind my son and I as we were loping up a hill talking. "Hey, where you going," and then random comments... Do I have to talk to these people? Really?

No, you don't have to talk to them. But you do have to learn to spell "wave."

Sorry, occupational hazard.


This confusion about waving shouldn't be so hard to understand. It relates to
feelings of kinship, which relate to relative uniqueness.

I imagine that when the first automobiles hit the roads, every motorist waved
to every other one. They were fellow members of a small society within a much
bigger one. You'd see the same behavior between (say) two French natives in
a typical American city. I saw it between two black engineers among a couple
hundred white male engineers in a big company. It's an acknowledgement that
"Hey, you're kind of like me. We could become friends."

But there are regional differences. My kid lived in the NW PDX alphabet blocks.
We'd walk through the crowds on 23rd (IIRC) and she'd smile and say "hi" to
strangers. That's just not done where I live. Maybe a nod, if there was nobody
else around, but that's it.

And it was strange to me living down south. In that rural southern state, if
you passed another motor vehicle, you were expected to raise your index finger -
just your index finger! - from the steering wheel.

But you didn't do that driving in traffic in town. And motorists elsewhere
don't wave at motorists at all, because everyone is a motorist. In PDX, damn
near everyone (it seems) is a bicyclist - or rather, the "critical mass" has
grown so large that there's little or no feeling of kinship. You're just
another dude on a bike. (Yawn.)

About the talking guy: Weird stuff like that happens in other places. I've
had it standing in line at the pharmacy. I couldn't really say "Leave me alone,
I just want to buy my deodorant and pills to cure my ailment." So I said
something like "Uh huh" and hoped he would get the hint. It happens.

Speaking of the pharmacy, the pharmacist at the local supermarket was admiring my pink Peter Sagan t-shirt. He was a fan. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/12...g?v=1521668774

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 12:03:01 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 2:22:42 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, August 31, 2018 at 11:19:17 AM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
sltom992 wrote:

I have the same attitude. Anyone riding
a bike is another brother of the wheel.

???

Waive at other riders?

Unknown concept.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Then don't complain if you need help and others simply ride by. Four or five bike riders stopped to help me around the first of the month when I was stuck but none of them had a chain breaker with them which would have allowed me to repair my failure.

Amazing that not one of them had a multi-tool with a chainbreaker on it.

Cheers

Well, they make them and now that I'm using Tubeless tires I don't have to carry much. I'll get one of those tiny saddle bags and keep that an a CO2 inflator in it.

On Saturday, September 1, 2018 at 6:26:01 AM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
lou.holtman wrote:

Yesterday just after a corner I came across
three cyclist from a bike club from
a neighbouring town and just after
I recognized their teamshirts and said
'hello' I hear 'helmet'. I am not wearing
a helmet when I ride alone on flat terrain,
which is becoming rare but people telling me
to wear a helmet **** me off.



Yeah, I think most people would be ****ed off
by such an answer no matter the setting when
oneself is saying something polite/neutral and
get the arrogance back.

One has to wonder tho why all this ravage to
begin with between cyclists? Why do they care
so much what other cyclists do?

That's immature, right?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

People have been propagandized NOT by the helmet industry but of all things by other riders that "My helmet saved my life". And they finally grow to believe it.

On Saturday, September 1, 2018 at 9:33:49 PM UTC+1, Duane wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, August 29, 2018 at 11:35:29 AM UTC+1, OK wrote:
Probably a homeless guy with depend on two-wheels is the real cyclist in
my view. Not guys with riding $5k bike on the bike lane who just use bike for
exercise or fun and these guys never use bike for main transporter.
And next real cyclist would be Dutch and Denmark cyclist using for a main transporter.

Mmm. I'm not homeless, but I gave up the car altogether in 1992 and have
cycled everywhere I wanted to go since then.

I don't claim to be a "real cyclist" but I get fed up with assholes who
own several automobiles telling me this or that class of cycling is "real cycling".

Here on RBT the underlying assumption is that only those who ride road
bikes with thin tyres and drop handlebars to work at not less than 25mph
are real cyclists. It's that foolish elitism and its counterproductive
presentation (together with the history of the growth of the automobile
and the associated infrastructure development) which will forever assure
that there will be no mass cycling movement in the States. It's what
makes the question of who are "real cyclists" and therefore the natural
"spokesmen for bicycles" so important. It's why I have consistently
stepped on Krygowski's dumb dream of himself as "a spokesman for
bicycles": he's a mindless moron with a bee in his bonnet.

Andre Jute
Recreational cyclist, and proud of it


Hmm. It seems to me just the opposite here. I’ve never seen someone
saying you have to be a roadie to be a cyclist.

You've never seen Jay (and others -- I'm just picking on Jay because he's an attorney well able to defend himself) complain that if he's forced to use the dedicated cycle path, he'll be slowed down by comparison to when he happily keeps up with the motorized rush hour traffic?

It's never occurred to you that the entire conception of Vehicular Cycling is a roadie elitism that will forever keep everyone else out of the bicycle-commuting pool precisely because it forces cyclists to keep up with traffic, which everyone but the roadies know is a ludicrous impossibility? (Yes, I know, we've in the past agreed that all of us active cyclists at times when it is unavoidable do the VC signature thing of taking the lane, but that isn't the key to our riding.)

But it’s common here to
read the opposite.

It's exactly because the underlying assumption is roadie-biased and therefore doesn't need to be explicitly stated that everyone else has repeatedly to mention that there are other forms of cycling with pretty good rationales for their own existence.

We have our intrepid Jeorg ranking on weight weenies
that won’t carry a growler and an iron lung with them.

Joerg wouldn't get half as hard a time if he were a roadie.

We have our
resident Vehicular Cyclist rep with his purple Lycra kit stuff.

For all the good it does him! I burst out laughing when I read that sentence. Thanks for the giggle.

Even the
OP in this post is saying basically that only people depending on bikes for
their sole transport are real cyclist.

Well, even where I live (Range-Rover land) it is eccentric to ride a bike, and not to have a car is clearly a sign of dire poverty. But the same people would think that the woman with the most bikes (teenage-sized offroad bikes) on the roof rack is the real cyclist. Hell, I see them deliver the kids by car to the concrete stunt track the authorities put in beside the town park. My benefice of the old curmudgeon this week: those aren't cyclists at all, and never likely to become cyclists either.

As a roadie who commutes, I find it ridiculous.

I decided it was a bit of a troll and let that aspect of it pass me by.

Anyone riding bikes is a
cyclist and all have to be taken into account.

You'd think so, at a superficial level. But if you look closely at some people on bikes, your opinion starts to change. One of the reasons I stood up for Mike Vandeman, when that was a wildly unpopular thing to do, is that I really can't abide these offroaders who have a deliberate policy of "shredding" the environment. They're not cyclists, they're antisocial scum. Vandeman did the moral thing in exposing and opposing them, and I did the moral thing by turning the "victory" of those who by perjury sent him to jail to ashes in their mouths.

There are some people it is simply counter-productive to include in your "side", and that goes for cycling too.

Andre Jute
There is no such thing as community -- Margaret Thatcher (one of the few times that The Lady got it wrong)