Noise from new Sunrace cassette

On 2018-11-28 08:34, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 3:39:36 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 10:20:23 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-27 08:40, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 7:14:23 AM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-11-27 07:04, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 2:24:47 PM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-11-26 14:01, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 4:26:53 PM UTC-5,
duane wrote: Snipped

Typically if I start off on a decent lenght ride, I
like to have a reasonable expectation of getting back
without having to try to rebuild the bike on the side
of the road. To hack my cassette to save one cog
makes no sense to me. Frugality is a good thing for
the planet and all but this is sounding close to
OCD.

I have a couple of bicycle wheels that still have
Uniglide Cassette bodies on them. A few years ago I
came across a bicycle shop that was a bit outside of a
city in our area. that shop HAD a number of brand new
Uniglide 7 speed cassettes at $5.00 per cassette. I
said HAD because I bough every one they had. I even
have a couple of NOS Uniglide cassette bodies.


Out of curiosity, what are UG cassette bodies? The UG
cassettes I had, even before a hack, consisted only of
cogs, spacers and three screws that held it all together
(but which weren't really needed and removed by me).


... I'm set for the rest of my years and won't need to
hack apart and Dremel Hyperglide cassettes to replace
those Uniglide cogs once they wear out on both sides.
If I get to the point where I need lower gears I'll
just swap out the bottom bracket spindle 0r cartridge
and add a triple chainring crankset. I have a number of
those on hand waiting for that day.


That'll be very hard on the chain and cogs if you ride a
lot of hills. Depends on rider weight and load, of
course.


Speaking of hacking cassettes. I have one bicycle wheel
that has a 9-speed hacked cassette with a corncob
cluster 11 to 19 teeth being shifted with friction
downtube shifters which is good because one of the cogs
I could not find on my spare 9 speed cassettes was take
from and 8 speed cassette. I have no problems shifting
to or from any of those cogs. It's a fun bike to ride
on gently rolling hills.

On my long distance road bike I have the Campagnolo
Veloce 30 - 42 - 52 triple crank and find that 30 teeth
ring useful at times in strong headwinds, steep hills
or if I'm really tired.

However, I think some people like Joerg simply enjoy
making something work with something it wasn't designed
to work with.


Oh yeah. Sometimes you get a little bonus in the wake.
For example, this new cassette came with 11T and 13T as
smallest cogs. Because of its construction these had to
stay in unless I'd do a more serious hack on the big
grinder. Turns out that 52/11 acts like an overdrive in a
car and if the wind picks up a wee bit I can shift to
13T. Currently I am missing 15T so I accelerate for the
last bit on the 18T, then shift to the 13T for a "mild
overdrive". It suits me well because I am not used to
spinning.

So, are your three lowest cogs 11, 13, 18? Is there
nothing between 13 and 18?


Unfortunately not. I'll see how that fares this week. If I
really want that 15T I'll probably take out the 28T instead.
The bike only supports 7-speed unless I'd go to a smaller
chain. With friction shifters a smaller chain and more cogs
would not be fun.


https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...-expert-bz-rfe
Wait for the bankruptcy to ramp-up, and the price will drop
some more -- or get the same bike at the door-closing sale at
your nearest Performance. Steel, 9 reasonable speeds, tire
clearance, discs, etc., etc. All the things you want for your
gnarly road riding in the wilds of Cameron Park. The massive
Trump tax break should more than fund that bike, or at least
the bar tape.


That is a good deal and with hydraulic brakes no less. Bankruptcy
at Nashbar? Please tell us you were kidding. Pricepoint is
already gone which hurt (no bankruptcy, they just shut down) and
now another?

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...1#.W_3M49tKiUk



Relatively old news -- and it is consolidated with the bankruptcies
filed by the parent company, ASI, and Performance. I looked at the
docket (NC Middle District). Yikes. Wells Fargo filed a proof of claim
for $37M.

Nashbar has filed a motion to approve the sale of substantially all
its assets, which is kind of an end-around plan approval and
probably means there is someone in the wings waiting to buy.
Chapter 11 is fascinating -- full of tricks and way beyond my
expertise.

-- Jay Beattie.

Thanks for that info Jay.


They discontinued the cool Nashbar Daytrekker panniers. Mon Dieu!

https://www.bikenashbar.com/SearchDi...ce:&pageSize:&

Those are (or were ...) the most practical panniers I've ever had. One
of the best inventions since pivot irrigation.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 28/11/2018 12:39 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-28 08:16, Duane wrote:
On 28/11/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-27 16:59, John B. slocomb wrote:

[...]


The problem, at least my problem, with spinning is that without a
meter to tell you how fast you are pedaling it is pretty hard to
maintain a constant spin rate. One could, I suppose, calculate the
bike speed in some gear at some pedal rate and then use the
speedometer to try and maintain a constant pedal rate. Or do what I
did and convert a speedometer to a rev meter.


Or go all out and have one speedometer with a spoke sensor and a 2nd
one mounted next to it with a sensor near the inner chain ring. With a
cheap set such as the Bell 100 that should cost less than $30 for both.


Or just do what most people do and buy a bike computer with speed and
cadence.Â* Cateye's aren't that expensive.Â* Even a wireless one is
probably 70 bucks CA.


70 bucks buys me the ingredients for brewing a 10 gallon batch of IPA :-)

I am not very interested in cadence data, others might be. While I am
trying to spin more at least under heavy load (one reason for this
cassette hack) I don't care much about it on the longhaul routes in the
valley. That's where I'll likely use the new "overdrives" a lot.



I was replying to whomever wrote "Or go all out and have one speeometer..."

My first smart phone is on the way and I am wondering whether that
could be pressed into such service, with one Bluetooth transmitter at
the spokes and another near the inner chain ring. Then maybe run
Strava on top of that. Of course, battery runtime is a concern for
all-day rides but in my case I could tie it into the large on-board
lighting battery with a USB converter. Or press a dynamo into service.


I think WAHOO makes bluetooth speed and cadence sensors.Â* The other
option is to get the ant+ versions and then an ant+ dongle for your
phone.


Aha, thanks, I'll have to research that. I have copied this into the
wiki file for the new phone so I remember what to look for.

The phone would allow me to switch the same "cycling computation
machine" between MTB and road bike, it wouldn't lose mileage totals upon
battery changes and with its 5" screen I could keep more data on the
display instead of just speed and time.


I've tried using my phone as a bike computer. I have several apps that
work but the problem is that the iPhone display isn't very legible in
direct sunlight. I received a Garmin for a present since then and that
works fine. Today you can buy head units to mount on your bar (Wahoo
also I think) that connect to your phone and give you an lcd display.

On 2018-11-28 12:20, Duane wrote:
On 28/11/2018 12:39 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]


The phone would allow me to switch the same "cycling computation
machine" between MTB and road bike, it wouldn't lose mileage totals
upon battery changes and with its 5" screen I could keep more data on
the display instead of just speed and time.


I've tried using my phone as a bike computer. I have several apps that
work but the problem is that the iPhone display isn't very legible in
direct sunlight. I received a Garmin for a present since then and that
works fine. Today you can buy head units to mount on your bar (Wahoo
also I think) that connect to your phone and give you an lcd display.


That's a good idea. I'll see how the Samsung J3 fares in sunlight.
Should be here later this week except there is no more sunlight, it's
pouring. Time to stuff the rain coat into the left pannier.

Maybe some sort of polarizer foil could help. A friend has his phone on
the handlebar and he's happy with it. Not sure which brand though. I
think there is a big difference between TFT, OLED and some other
technologies WRT sunlight visibility.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 5:56:48 PM UTC-6, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:16:19 -0800, Joerg

In my case, 10-speed with friction shifters would not be that great. Of
course, I could buy a new bike ...

Interesting. One of my bikes has a ten speed cassette and I shift it
with a friction down tube shifter with no problems.

Kind of weird, but maybe friction with many gears (10) works better than friction with old time 5 speed freewheels. You have to move the lever less distance to change gears. Its easier to shift 10 speed than 5 speed with friction shifters.

On 11/28/2018 3:36 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 5:56:48 PM UTC-6, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:16:19 -0800, Joerg

In my case, 10-speed with friction shifters would not be that great. Of
course, I could buy a new bike ...

Interesting. One of my bikes has a ten speed cassette and I shift it
with a friction down tube shifter with no problems.

Kind of weird, but maybe friction with many gears (10) works better than friction with old time 5 speed freewheels. You have to move the lever less distance to change gears. Its easier to shift 10 speed than 5 speed with friction shifters.


I think the difference is trivial to negligible. For riders
who are OK with friction levers*, classic 4 or 5 speed up
through modern waytoomany speeds are all just bicycles.

Having test ridden customers' bikes with friction eight,
nine, ten it's not as difficult as you might imagine. Modern
chain and tooth shapes give them snappier shifts than some
classic straight-tooth sprockets with half as many choices.

*a dwindling minority
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/28/2018 4:46 PM, AMuzi wrote:


Having test ridden customers' bikes with friction eight, nine, ten it's
not as difficult as you might imagine. Modern chain and tooth shapes
give them snappier shifts than some classic straight-tooth sprockets
with half as many choices.

The chain and tooth shape developments have surely helped. Another, I
think, has been derailleur design. As I understand and remember it,
SunTour's slant parallelogram was a very significant step forward. Then
Shimano figured out how to balance the mount spring and the tension
spring to keep idler-to-sprocket distance much more consistent. When
SunTour's patent expired, they added that trick. That, plus another
minor trick or three, have made index shifting workable and friction
shifting much easier.

There was a time when I rode with plastic Simplex shifters of
questionable geometry and rigidity, old-style cables that were often
badly lubricated, friction levers whose friction adjustments wouldn't
stay put, trying to convince a chain with square plates to jump cogs
with no provisions for lateral chain motion. Young 'uns have no idea how
tough we were.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 08:00:43 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/27/2018 10:01 PM, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 20:04:28 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/27/2018 7:56 PM, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 20:31:22 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/27/2018 6:54 PM, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:07:10 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-26 19:43, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 14:24:45 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

[...]

Speaking of hacking cassettes. I have one bicycle wheel that has a
9-speed hacked cassette with a corncob cluster 11 to 19 teeth being
shifted with friction downtube shifters which is good because one of
the cogs I could not find on my spare 9 speed cassettes was take from
and 8 speed cassette. I have no problems shifting to or from any of
those cogs. It's a fun bike to ride on gently rolling hills.

On my long distance road bike I have the Campagnolo Veloce 30 - 42 -
52 triple crank and find that 30 teeth ring useful at times in strong
headwinds, steep hills or if I'm really tired.

However, I think some people like Joerg simply enjoy making something
work with something it wasn't designed to work with.


Oh yeah. Sometimes you get a little bonus in the wake. For example, this
new cassette came with 11T and 13T as smallest cogs. Because of its
construction these had to stay in unless I'd do a more serious hack on
the big grinder. Turns out that 52/11 acts like an overdrive in a car
and if the wind picks up a wee bit I can shift to 13T. Currently I am
missing 15T so I accelerate for the last bit on the 18T, then shift to
the 13T for a "mild overdrive". It suits me well because I am not used
to spinning.


Interesting. A 52/11 with a 23mm tire at a moderate 90 RPM crank speed
is about 54 KPH or 33 MPH. I read that TdF level riders will ride a 36
K time trial in the 29 - 31 MPH range.


Then there are people who prefer not to ride longer distance at 90rpm. I
often ride at 20mph and the resulting lower rpm feels just right.

While "spinning" initially seems difficult it really isn't and it is
the most efficient method of powering a bicycle.
(horse) Power = RPM x Force

Perhaps I shouldn't be pedantic, but it's really RPM x Torque.
Alternately, it's velocity x Force. (Yes, with appropriate conversion
factors.)

Well yes, or many other formula :-) I was trying to simplify things by
talking about RPM, i.e. velocity, and force on the pedals, i.e.
torque.

Somewhat similar to Watt's original calculation with the horse and the
mill wheel. :-)


No matter what gear, we cannot raise 33,000lb one foot in
one minute.

You are right. But the calculation is Ft. Lbs. and minutes and a
trained athlete can generate as much as 3.5 H.P. ( Usain Bolt ) for
very short periods of time.


To get such high output from a human one needs to consider
very short duration:

https://www.physicsforums.com/thread...n-power.58140/

Well, when your races last for less then 10 seconds I guess it can be
called very short duration :-)

cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 11:35:47 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/28/2018 9:57 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 5:32:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/27/2018 7:59 PM, John B. slocomb wrote:

The problem, at least my problem, with spinning is that without a
meter to tell you how fast you are pedaling it is pretty hard to
maintain a constant spin rate. One could, I suppose, calculate the
bike speed in some gear at some pedal rate and then use the
speedometer to try and maintain a constant pedal rate. Or do what I
did and convert a speedometer to a rev meter.

There are cyclometers available with cadence displays. An extra switch &
magnet set are fitted to the cranks. We've got one on our tandem.

In the modern world, cadence data is produced by an accelerometer on your crank and sent to your sunglasses wirelessly via Bluetooth or ANT -- along with data from your heart rate monitor, orbiting satellite, passing cyclists and the Wall Street Journal. https://everysight.com/ Perfect gift for the holiday season!

My son just gave me a Stages head unit, but I have yet to put it on my bike. I ride with other people who have computers and prefer the social aspect and surprise of learning distance/time/elevation at the end of the ride. It is usually depressing -- "we only went 32.6 miles?"

Speaking of the modern era, I did not see anyone exiting my building last night who was not staring at a phone. I have a new rule of relegation: if you are in an elevator staring at your phone, and the door opens, I am getting out before you -- whether you are man, woman or child. Same goes with getting on.

From the Raptor advertisement web page: "Always Connected - Raptor
connects to your smartphone via Bluetooth so you’re always on top of
emails, texts, schedules, and more. No need to stop to check your phone
– it’s all right there."

Oh joy. And I also get numbers in my field of vision everywhere I look?
Thank God I won't have to bother about appreciating that nice view, or
spotting that soaring hawk. And it will be nice to have something to
distract and amuse me while I'm riding in crowded traffic. Gosh, sign me up!

Recently someone posted a reference to a video of a bicyclist who rode
straight into the back of a parked car... perhaps the cyclist was
checking his heart rate in his sunglasses and didn't notice the car.

cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 07:57:26 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-27 16:59, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 16:12:10 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-27 15:54, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:07:10 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-26 19:43, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 14:24:45 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

[...]

Speaking of hacking cassettes. I have one bicycle wheel that has a
9-speed hacked cassette with a corncob cluster 11 to 19 teeth being
shifted with friction downtube shifters which is good because one of
the cogs I could not find on my spare 9 speed cassettes was take from
and 8 speed cassette. I have no problems shifting to or from any of
those cogs. It's a fun bike to ride on gently rolling hills.

On my long distance road bike I have the Campagnolo Veloce 30 - 42 -
52 triple crank and find that 30 teeth ring useful at times in strong
headwinds, steep hills or if I'm really tired.

However, I think some people like Joerg simply enjoy making something
work with something it wasn't designed to work with.


Oh yeah. Sometimes you get a little bonus in the wake. For example, this
new cassette came with 11T and 13T as smallest cogs. Because of its
construction these had to stay in unless I'd do a more serious hack on
the big grinder. Turns out that 52/11 acts like an overdrive in a car
and if the wind picks up a wee bit I can shift to 13T. Currently I am
missing 15T so I accelerate for the last bit on the 18T, then shift to
the 13T for a "mild overdrive". It suits me well because I am not used
to spinning.


Interesting. A 52/11 with a 23mm tire at a moderate 90 RPM crank speed
is about 54 KPH or 33 MPH. I read that TdF level riders will ride a 36
K time trial in the 29 - 31 MPH range.


Then there are people who prefer not to ride longer distance at 90rpm. I
often ride at 20mph and the resulting lower rpm feels just right.

While "spinning" initially seems difficult it really isn't and it is
the most efficient method of powering a bicycle.
(horse) Power = RPM x Force


I am just not used to it and spent most of my cycling life in sort of an
"overdrive". Old dog, new tricks? Nah ...

Also, the taller a person is the less he or she generally likes high rpm.


(and, yes I know there is a constant used to convert to some specified
output value :-)


My legs can pump all the output I want from them. Eventually I just run
out of breath, that's the limiter. That can be trained up as well but I
don't have any Tour de France ambitions.

Maybe so, but after all when riding a bicycle a tall person's feet go
up and down the same distance as a short persons ( crank arm length X
2) :-)


Still, taller people often run lower rpm. Also, they tend to prefer the
longer crank versions.

Yes, I've seen formula for leg length versus crank length.


But it isn't usually the legs that give up, at least not on the flat,
it is the lungs and spinning, as it takes less effort from the body
and requires less oxygen so one can spin at a higher bike speed for
longer periods.


Maybe but I am just not used to it. I know that mashing is bad also for
the knee joints. I guess that habit formed because back in the days you
could only get corncob cassettes for UG. At least that's how it was at
the LBS in Europe and that always meant mashing when riding in places
such as Eastern Belgium where I rode a lot.


The problem, at least my problem, with spinning is that without a
meter to tell you how fast you are pedaling it is pretty hard to
maintain a constant spin rate. One could, I suppose, calculate the
bike speed in some gear at some pedal rate and then use the
speedometer to try and maintain a constant pedal rate. Or do what I
did and convert a speedometer to a rev meter.


Or go all out and have one speedometer with a spoke sensor and a 2nd one
mounted next to it with a sensor near the inner chain ring. With a
cheap set such as the Bell 100 that should cost less than $30 for both.

My first smart phone is on the way and I am wondering whether that could
be pressed into such service, with one Bluetooth transmitter at the
spokes and another near the inner chain ring. Then maybe run Strava on
top of that. Of course, battery runtime is a concern for all-day rides
but in my case I could tie it into the large on-board lighting battery
with a USB converter. Or press a dynamo into service.


cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:20:01 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 28/11/2018 12:39 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-28 08:16, Duane wrote:
On 28/11/2018 10:57 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-27 16:59, John B. slocomb wrote:

[...]


The problem, at least my problem, with spinning is that without a
meter to tell you how fast you are pedaling it is pretty hard to
maintain a constant spin rate. One could, I suppose, calculate the
bike speed in some gear at some pedal rate and then use the
speedometer to try and maintain a constant pedal rate. Or do what I
did and convert a speedometer to a rev meter.


Or go all out and have one speedometer with a spoke sensor and a 2nd
one mounted next to it with a sensor near the inner chain ring. With a
cheap set such as the Bell 100 that should cost less than $30 for both.


Or just do what most people do and buy a bike computer with speed and
cadence.* Cateye's aren't that expensive.* Even a wireless one is
probably 70 bucks CA.


70 bucks buys me the ingredients for brewing a 10 gallon batch of IPA :-)

I am not very interested in cadence data, others might be. While I am
trying to spin more at least under heavy load (one reason for this
cassette hack) I don't care much about it on the longhaul routes in the
valley. That's where I'll likely use the new "overdrives" a lot.



I was replying to whomever wrote "Or go all out and have one speeometer..."

My first smart phone is on the way and I am wondering whether that
could be pressed into such service, with one Bluetooth transmitter at
the spokes and another near the inner chain ring. Then maybe run
Strava on top of that. Of course, battery runtime is a concern for
all-day rides but in my case I could tie it into the large on-board
lighting battery with a USB converter. Or press a dynamo into service.


I think WAHOO makes bluetooth speed and cadence sensors.* The other
option is to get the ant+ versions and then an ant+ dongle for your
phone.


Aha, thanks, I'll have to research that. I have copied this into the
wiki file for the new phone so I remember what to look for.

The phone would allow me to switch the same "cycling computation
machine" between MTB and road bike, it wouldn't lose mileage totals upon
battery changes and with its 5" screen I could keep more data on the
display instead of just speed and time.


I've tried using my phone as a bike computer. I have several apps that
work but the problem is that the iPhone display isn't very legible in
direct sunlight. I received a Garmin for a present since then and that
works fine. Today you can buy head units to mount on your bar (Wahoo
also I think) that connect to your phone and give you an lcd display.

I can see it now. The modern cyclist... head down, arse in the air,
staring at his smart phone... But Officer I was looking at my
telephone.

cheers,

John B.