About Trek liquids

JD wrote:
No, *this* makes *you* ridiculous: ". We'll add
clueless to that as well.

Got a problem with Stanford, bitch? ;-)

justen

Dan Volker wrote:
I can see you as the tough guy in the chess club while in high
school, a kid
who carefully planned to stay away from the football team or other
more
physical types. Or maybe you were the "big dog" in the AV club.

This is so ****ing funny I can hardly believe it.

back in highschool, the guys who made
cycling their primary sport, were the guys to wimpy to go out for
football
or any other contact sport. Now that we are out of college and in the
real
world, contact sports are largely unavailable, and impractical, so
sports
like cycling will prevail

Are you serious? I have a suggestion: go get a tattoo on your forehead
that says "I am a meathead" and be done with it. You could save a lot
of people the trouble of bothering to talk to you.

CC

pas wrote:

Here's a thought. I think Dan is a female. Why? This stuff cycles
though as regularly as my man haiting PMS rants used to
^^^^^^

You sent guys to a Caribbean island...uh, periodically?

Bill "is there a sign-up sheet or something?" S.

(I'm dead meat, aren't I? )

Dan Volker wrote:

Fine. So he is, in some manner, involved with the Airforce Combat
Controllers...Maybe he is a clerk, maybe he was a Combat Controller
that went to Somalia. Neither sets him up to be world class, in hand
to hand combat---their deal is more about use of lethal weapons. This
would not help him if he wandered into a bar and picked a fight with
a bunch of SEALS, and it would not help him very much if he picked a
fight with a bunch or football players, bouncers, bikers or WWF
Wrestlers :-)

If I saw him in real life, and he had a gun in his hand, I'd call him
sir. Without the gun, I'd still see him as a joke, and I wouldn't
**** on him if he was on fire :-)

I have several friends who are SEALS, and a good friend who was well
beyond SEAL status, in all realms of combat. Non of these guys act
or talk like JD. None of them "look" remotely like him either :-)

Dan, all the world's SEALS in all the world's SEAS haven't swallowed as much
bait as you have in the last 24 hours.

Bill "where do you get this stuff?!?" S.

"Monique Y. Mudama" wrote in message .. .
On 2004-08-17, Dan Volker penned:

Monique, you have not seen me start out any discussions the way JD does. I
have tried to ignore this, but it is also kind of a pet peeve of
mine---interacting on usenet groups and having some "poser" talk tough, as
if anything could ever come of it--of course it won't. They know this, and
take advantage of it. JD knows he can talk tough to anyone on here, attack
any way he desires, and be free of any consequences ( unlike the way we ALL
exist in real life). Its a perverted aspect of the Internet, and apparently
you and most others on AMB are happy to tolerate it. I don't see killfiling
him as the right response...I don't really know if there is a right response
though.....


It doesn't matter who started it. It takes two to keep it going.

Believe me, taking the bait every time is not making you look good.
Killfiling him is the right response.

Your use of the word "tolerate" implies that you think that there's some
action that will "teach JD a lesson" and "make him behave." This is
not a moderated group. There's no way to shut people up, even if there were a
majority in favor of doing so. The best way to deal with someone who annoys
you is to ignore them.

I don't know how much experience you have with online communities, but I have
a ton, and it all, including my previous experiences with JD, supports my
belief that taking the bait does nothing but irritate the rest of the
community. It makes you look bad. Maybe it's not fair, but that's the way it
is.

All of this can be summarized by a long-standing usenet policy: "Don't
feed the trolls."

Anyway, I'm done. Keep shaking your fists at him if you'd like, but realize
this: it won't make a damn bit of difference. JD won't alter his behavior,
and you won't change anyone's opinion about him. People have already made
their decisions about JD based on his posts, just as they are making their
decisions about you based on your posts.

"Paging Mr. King, Mr. Rodney King."

El 17 Aug 2004 18:59:38 GMT, BB va escriu



Since your original post mentioned Euros, the fact that he rides in
Florida (and he DID point this out) might not have meant much to you.
This
is pretty flat territory - just small hills around creeks and lakes. LOTS
of roots, FWIK. Dan never claimed he had big downhills - he specified
downhills of 20 to 60 feet - this is like 6-20 meters. No long uphills to
suffer there.

Its not rocket science. If you're a big guy riding big stuff, you'll
probably break a light bike. If you're an average-size guy riding trails
without big drops, a lighter bike will probably last quite awhile. Unless
your reference is someone of similar weight riding similar trails, its
probably mostly irrelevant.


Well, I weight about 69 kg (about 150 lbs), so if someone who weights more
than me says that is not bobbing in climbings, is a valuable information
.

Now (I'm on MTB from '92) climbing is not a competition, I take them
quietly, so I can sacrifice a little in uphills if I obtain more in
downhill.

Although I know general geography of USA (I've never visited them), your
comments about Florida (I had a job mate working there) give me a better
idea.

I read some reviews in mtbreviews.com. People says that Fuel and Liquid
are both fine for climbings, with no bobbing, but I'd like to change
information directly with owner of these two bikes.

Thanks BB,

--

Gamarús

El Tue, 17 Aug 2004 21:33:20 +0200, bomba va
escriu

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 18:59:38 +0000, BB wrote:

Its not rocket science. If you're a big guy riding big stuff, you'll
probably break a light bike. If you're an average-size guy riding trails
without big drops, a lighter bike will probably last quite awhile.
Unless
your reference is someone of similar weight riding similar trails, its
probably mostly irrelevant.

I'm think he said he was in Barcelona. There are some pretty big
hills round that way - or at least I wished I'd had a bike when I was
there a couple of months back...

Yes, I'm from Barcelona. Inside (and out of) Barcelona you have the
Collserola Park (http://pmpc.amb.es/catalan/home/marcos.htm). In "mapa"
you have a map . There you have hundred's of kilometers of forest roads
and tracks. No big freeride business, but there is a few of all. Maximum
height is Tibidabo mountain (512 m). Normally, with 30 km you have enough,
as there is short steep climbs(up to 20%, no less than 6-8%). You can
enjoy with a hardtail or rigid bike, as forest roads are in a good shape,
but if you go to other tracks, then you may have some trouble.

Barcelona inhabitants don't know, generally, Collserola Park, so if you
visit Barcelona, nobody explain you anything about Collserola.

But 2-4 hours car from Barcelona city you have the Pre-pyrenees and
Pyrinees, which is better by far. Mountains are up to 3,000 meters, and
you normally climb a minimun of 800 meters of height difference. Last week
I went to Canigo mountain, riding a forest road of 23 km, rocky in the
last 5 km, and very rocky in the last two (so rocky that was difficult not
to fall with a hardtail), and a height diference of 1700 meter (it takes
me 3 hours and a half, sleeping 30 minutes in the amazing landscape ).
There you need a Full Suspension.

--

Gamarús

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 01:34:24 +0200, Gamarús wrote:

I read some reviews in mtbreviews.com. People says that Fuel and Liquid
are both fine for climbings, with no bobbing, but I'd like to change
information directly with owner of these two bikes.

User reviews on websites should be taken VERY lightly. Lots of them are
written by someone who just got the product (it survived one ride - big
deal), some are from people who've NEVER used the product. I saw a
(non-bike) product with 31 user reviews today...and its not due to be
released until the middle of NEXT MONTH!

If your climbs are really rough, I can't imagine you'd feel much bob. I've
only rented FS bikes, and it was on VERY rocky trails - these weren't
top-notch bikes so I'm sure they bobbed, but I never noticed it. And if
your trails AREN'T rough...why would you need a FS bike?!?! :-)

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

El Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:41:54 -0400, Dan Volker va
escriu


Gamarús

Gamarus,
As to uphills, the bike does weigh a little more than hard tails, so on a
long climb, I expect I will pay for this. But I also expect to pay more
for
my extra muscle mass and weight, that does little in a hill climb to
assist
;-)

On the shorter climbs--30 to 60 foot steep and rocky, the rear shock on
the
Liquid 25 makes this climb much better than the Trek hardtail I used to
ride, or than the Canondale hardtail with monoshock. The rear tire stays
in
contact with the dirt much better, and when you run over a rock or root,
traction is maintained much better. I have not felt an issue with
bobbing,
due to the spv rear shock---although in fairness to the guys who ride
much
bigger hills, since I am riding only short hills, I am in NO position to
comment on bobbing over a long climb---I'm sure in a 30 minute or one
hour
climb, any amount of bobbing would feel exagerated, so there are plenty
of
people here with much better feedback for you on the effects of this
type of
rear shock on a long climb. Where the climb is long and smooth, I'd
expect
there'd be much less to favor the Liquid.

Regards,
Dan V



Thanks Dan for your feedback.

About bobbing, today I was with my cousin in the second easiest climbint
in Collserola (a road), in his third MTB journey, when a guy pass us with
a Full Suspension, that seems a Freeride bike. He seemed a good biker. The
only need sing, as the bobbing was moving him all the time .

With your comments, and other I read at mtbreviews (and future comments
here), it seems that Liquid is good enought to me for climbing. I wish
with the redesign in 2005 Liquid, the behaviour will be the same. 2005
Fuel with 100 mm travel (now is 80 mm) could be a good alternative.


--

Gamarús

El 17 Aug 2004 02:14:19 GMT, Stephen Baker va
escriu

engamarus says:

I'm more worried about uphills behaviour, than downhills, as I think you
always have to suffer in uphills, and have fun in downhills. I'd prefer
less suffer than more fun . But obviously, I need more fun than a
downhill with a hardtail.

If you have to buy a full sus to have more "fun" than a hardtail or even
(gasp!) a rigid bike, then you must be confusing speed with skill.

Well, speed is fun too . As I said, I'm on MTB from 92. From 96 to 2002
I didn't ride very much, but from 2003 I'm back. My first bike was a
complete rigid one, well, I don't remember any suspension bike to buy in
92 in Catalonia...

I did all, but two years later I broke the fork. Then I put a suspension
fork, a basic one (elastomer). There was a noticeble difference. With a
new bike in 2003, and better fork (a RS Pilot, no high-end) there was
difference too, and the downhills are more enjoyble, not only in the
speed, also in control, safety and hands with brakes.

In Collserola there are plenty of tracks that you can pass with a rigid
bike or hardtail, but you don't enjoy them, because you were braking all
the time and with a severe risk of falling due to plenty free rocks. Not
about technics.

There is some other technical tracks where skill is the difference, I
know. I like too, and I realised that with a FS bike, there will be no
important difference.

Regards,

--

Gamarús