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  #11  
Old December 11th 17, 12:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andy
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Posts: 25
Default Hit by car

On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/10/2017 4:36 PM, Andy wrote:
I was crossing crosswalk with green light.

Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right.

I was hit.

Broke left hand and neck pain.

I will never again cross at light.

Will cross between blocks.

Can't trust anyone!!


You certainly have to be very choosy about whom you trust. But you also
have to behave in a predictable manner.

It sounds like you were going straight ahead while you were to the right
of a car that turned right. I try to never put myself in that position.
It's responsible for many serious crashes, often fatal ones. That's why
that location has the nickname "coffin corner." See
http://iamtraffic.org/glossary/coffin-corner/

That website talks specifically about a bike lane, but the same
principle applies if its a sidewalk, or even if you're on a street or
road with no bike lane. Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle
that may turn right. _Especially_ don't do it with trucks, buses or
other large vehicles. They have blind spots that make it even harder to
spot you in that position.

Bicycles are safest at intersections if they are where motorists expect
vehicles to be, and if the bicyclists are performing normal traffic
movements.

For more on this, see
http://www.kansascyclist.com/news/20...coffin-corner/

--
- Frank Krygowski


Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle
that may turn right.


That's difficult to do when a cyclist has to cross.
Any cyclist on the road will ALWAYS be on someone's right.

That's why I no longer cross at lights. :-0

Andy

Ads
  #12  
Old December 11th 17, 02:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 110
Default Hit by car

wrote:
San Diego ?7


Canada...

  #13  
Old December 11th 17, 03:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,545
Default Hit by car

On 12/10/2017 7:53 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 3:26:19 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/10/2017 4:36 PM, Andy wrote:
I was crossing crosswalk with green light.

Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right.

I was hit.

Broke left hand and neck pain.

I will never again cross at light.

Will cross between blocks.

Can't trust anyone!!


You certainly have to be very choosy about whom you trust. But you also
have to behave in a predictable manner.

It sounds like you were going straight ahead while you were to the right
of a car that turned right. I try to never put myself in that position.
It's responsible for many serious crashes, often fatal ones. That's why
that location has the nickname "coffin corner." See
http://iamtraffic.org/glossary/coffin-corner/

That website talks specifically about a bike lane, but the same
principle applies if its a sidewalk, or even if you're on a street or
road with no bike lane. Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle
that may turn right. _Especially_ don't do it with trucks, buses or
other large vehicles. They have blind spots that make it even harder to
spot you in that position.

Bicycles are safest at intersections if they are where motorists expect
vehicles to be, and if the bicyclists are performing normal traffic
movements.

For more on this, see
http://www.kansascyclist.com/news/20...coffin-corner/


Frank, I think he was a pedestrian.


I'm not so sure. He mentioned only bicyclists in a reply to me posted
this morning.

Where's the group rec.pedestrians.tech??

I agree, though, that right turning motorists (especially right turns on
red) are a pedestrian hazard. I'm nervous about that situation whether
I'm driving or walking.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #14  
Old December 11th 17, 03:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,545
Default Hit by car

On 12/11/2017 6:48 AM, Andy wrote:
On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/10/2017 4:36 PM, Andy wrote:
I was crossing crosswalk with green light.

Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right.

I was hit.

Broke left hand and neck pain.

I will never again cross at light.

Will cross between blocks.

Can't trust anyone!!


You certainly have to be very choosy about whom you trust. But you also
have to behave in a predictable manner.

It sounds like you were going straight ahead while you were to the right
of a car that turned right. I try to never put myself in that position.
It's responsible for many serious crashes, often fatal ones. That's why
that location has the nickname "coffin corner." See
http://iamtraffic.org/glossary/coffin-corner/

That website talks specifically about a bike lane, but the same
principle applies if its a sidewalk, or even if you're on a street or
road with no bike lane. Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle
that may turn right. _Especially_ don't do it with trucks, buses or
other large vehicles. They have blind spots that make it even harder to
spot you in that position.

Bicycles are safest at intersections if they are where motorists expect
vehicles to be, and if the bicyclists are performing normal traffic
movements.

For more on this, see
http://www.kansascyclist.com/news/20...coffin-corner/

--
- Frank Krygowski


Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle
that may turn right.


That's difficult to do when a cyclist has to cross.
Any cyclist on the road will ALWAYS be on someone's right.


Sorry, that's absolutely false. There are cyclists who are knowledgeable
enough not to ride in the gutter, and knowledgeable enough to avoid bike
lanes and sidewalks that put them at risk.

Admittedly, most cyclists don't have that knowledge. But most cyclists
think they already know everything about how to ride a bike. Go figure!

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #15  
Old December 11th 17, 07:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ian Field
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 224
Default Hit by car



"Andy" wrote in message
...
I was crossing crosswalk with green light.

Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right.

I was hit.

Broke left hand and neck pain.

I will never again cross at light.

Will cross between blocks.

Can't trust anyone!!

Andy


Tactical riding - I learned it on motorcycles, but it applies to bicycles
too.

****wittery is expected of car drivers.

  #16  
Old December 11th 17, 08:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 43
Default Hit by car

On 11/12/2017 1:47 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Andy" wrote in message
...
I was crossing crosswalk with green light.

Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right.

I was hit.

Broke left hand and neck pain.

I will never again cross at light.

Will cross between blocks.

Can't trust anyone!!

Andy


Tactical riding - I learned it on motorcycles, but it applies to
bicycles too.


He was walking. Tactical walking I guess...

****wittery is expected of car drivers.


Yeah, but not exclusively. My wife took months to recover from a clown
riding his bike on a sidewalk and knocking her down as she walked out of
her office door.

  #17  
Old December 12th 17, 02:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,666
Default Hit by car

On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:48:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/11/2017 6:48 AM, Andy wrote:
On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/10/2017 4:36 PM, Andy wrote:
I was crossing crosswalk with green light.

Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right.

I was hit.

Broke left hand and neck pain.

I will never again cross at light.

Will cross between blocks.

Can't trust anyone!!

You certainly have to be very choosy about whom you trust. But you also
have to behave in a predictable manner.

It sounds like you were going straight ahead while you were to the right
of a car that turned right. I try to never put myself in that position.
It's responsible for many serious crashes, often fatal ones. That's why
that location has the nickname "coffin corner." See
http://iamtraffic.org/glossary/coffin-corner/

That website talks specifically about a bike lane, but the same
principle applies if its a sidewalk, or even if you're on a street or
road with no bike lane. Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle
that may turn right. _Especially_ don't do it with trucks, buses or
other large vehicles. They have blind spots that make it even harder to
spot you in that position.

Bicycles are safest at intersections if they are where motorists expect
vehicles to be, and if the bicyclists are performing normal traffic
movements.

For more on this, see
http://www.kansascyclist.com/news/20...coffin-corner/

--
- Frank Krygowski


Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle
that may turn right.


That's difficult to do when a cyclist has to cross.
Any cyclist on the road will ALWAYS be on someone's right.


Sorry, that's absolutely false. There are cyclists who are knowledgeable
enough not to ride in the gutter, and knowledgeable enough to avoid bike
lanes and sidewalks that put them at risk.

Admittedly, most cyclists don't have that knowledge. But most cyclists
think they already know everything about how to ride a bike. Go figure!


Every time one of these conversations start I always have the feeling
that there is something missing.

On side of the equation there is a giant 200 HP thing, clad in hard
steel and weighing a ton or more. On the other side we have a thin
skinned, feeble creature wearing lycra and weighing ounces for every
pound her/his/its adversary weighs.

Doesn't Feeble Flora (or Freddy) ever give any thought about which of
the antagonists is almost assured of coming out last in any contest?

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #18  
Old December 12th 17, 03:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,545
Default Hit by car

On 12/11/2017 8:36 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:48:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/11/2017 6:48 AM, Andy wrote:
On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/10/2017 4:36 PM, Andy wrote:
I was crossing crosswalk with green light.

Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right.

I was hit.

Broke left hand and neck pain.

I will never again cross at light.

Will cross between blocks.

Can't trust anyone!!

You certainly have to be very choosy about whom you trust. But you also
have to behave in a predictable manner.

It sounds like you were going straight ahead while you were to the right
of a car that turned right. I try to never put myself in that position.
It's responsible for many serious crashes, often fatal ones. That's why
that location has the nickname "coffin corner." See
http://iamtraffic.org/glossary/coffin-corner/

That website talks specifically about a bike lane, but the same
principle applies if its a sidewalk, or even if you're on a street or
road with no bike lane. Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle
that may turn right. _Especially_ don't do it with trucks, buses or
other large vehicles. They have blind spots that make it even harder to
spot you in that position.

Bicycles are safest at intersections if they are where motorists expect
vehicles to be, and if the bicyclists are performing normal traffic
movements.

For more on this, see
http://www.kansascyclist.com/news/20...coffin-corner/

--
- Frank Krygowski

Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle
that may turn right.

That's difficult to do when a cyclist has to cross.
Any cyclist on the road will ALWAYS be on someone's right.


Sorry, that's absolutely false. There are cyclists who are knowledgeable
enough not to ride in the gutter, and knowledgeable enough to avoid bike
lanes and sidewalks that put them at risk.

Admittedly, most cyclists don't have that knowledge. But most cyclists
think they already know everything about how to ride a bike. Go figure!


Every time one of these conversations start I always have the feeling
that there is something missing.

On side of the equation there is a giant 200 HP thing, clad in hard
steel and weighing a ton or more. On the other side we have a thin
skinned, feeble creature wearing lycra and weighing ounces for every
pound her/his/its adversary weighs.

Doesn't Feeble Flora (or Freddy) ever give any thought about which of
the antagonists is almost assured of coming out last in any contest?


I think the fundamental error is thinking of them as antagonists. Very
few motorists are actually in combat mode. If they were, no cyclist
would survive.

Instead, the roads have people who are trying to get where they are
going, not much different than people walking on a sidewalk. Yes, some
people get impatient, just as New Yorkers do when (say) tourists stop on
a sidewalk to gawk at a building. But the impatience doesn't trigger
attacks.

Instead of an attack, a much more common problem is a motorist who gets
surprised by a bicyclist's unusual move - like passing on the right as
the motorist is turning right. The solution is to not violate
fundamental rules of the road.

In this example, the rule is sometimes called "destination positioning."
That means your road position should correspond to your direction.
Turning left or going straight from the extreme right side of the road
is frequently hazardous. Cyclists need to realize and remember that.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #19  
Old December 12th 17, 03:33 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,841
Default Hit by car

On Monday, December 11, 2017 at 11:48:06 AM UTC-8, duane wrote:
On 11/12/2017 1:47 PM, Ian Field wrote:


"Andy" wrote in message
...
I was crossing crosswalk with green light.

Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right.

I was hit.

Broke left hand and neck pain.

I will never again cross at light.

Will cross between blocks.

Can't trust anyone!!

Andy


Tactical riding - I learned it on motorcycles, but it applies to
bicycles too.


He was walking. Tactical walking I guess...

****wittery is expected of car drivers.


Yeah, but not exclusively. My wife took months to recover from a clown
riding his bike on a sidewalk and knocking her down as she walked out of
her office door.


My wife just got knocked down by two f****** dogs who were with their owner, and in her relatively frail condition, that's no trivial matter. And what I hate is the inevitable effort to make it seem acceptable -- "oh, he just wants to say hello," or "oh, he's just so happy to see you . . ." I want to slap these idiots. It's not O.K.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #20  
Old December 12th 17, 06:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,666
Default Hit by car

On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 21:03:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/11/2017 8:36 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:48:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/11/2017 6:48 AM, Andy wrote:
On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 5:26:19 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/10/2017 4:36 PM, Andy wrote:
I was crossing crosswalk with green light.

Lady made a right at red light. She never looked right.

I was hit.

Broke left hand and neck pain.

I will never again cross at light.

Will cross between blocks.

Can't trust anyone!!

You certainly have to be very choosy about whom you trust. But you also
have to behave in a predictable manner.

It sounds like you were going straight ahead while you were to the right
of a car that turned right. I try to never put myself in that position.
It's responsible for many serious crashes, often fatal ones. That's why
that location has the nickname "coffin corner." See
http://iamtraffic.org/glossary/coffin-corner/

That website talks specifically about a bike lane, but the same
principle applies if its a sidewalk, or even if you're on a street or
road with no bike lane. Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle
that may turn right. _Especially_ don't do it with trucks, buses or
other large vehicles. They have blind spots that make it even harder to
spot you in that position.

Bicycles are safest at intersections if they are where motorists expect
vehicles to be, and if the bicyclists are performing normal traffic
movements.

For more on this, see
http://www.kansascyclist.com/news/20...coffin-corner/

--
- Frank Krygowski

Don't put yourself to the right of a vehicle
that may turn right.

That's difficult to do when a cyclist has to cross.
Any cyclist on the road will ALWAYS be on someone's right.

Sorry, that's absolutely false. There are cyclists who are knowledgeable
enough not to ride in the gutter, and knowledgeable enough to avoid bike
lanes and sidewalks that put them at risk.

Admittedly, most cyclists don't have that knowledge. But most cyclists
think they already know everything about how to ride a bike. Go figure!


Every time one of these conversations start I always have the feeling
that there is something missing.

On side of the equation there is a giant 200 HP thing, clad in hard
steel and weighing a ton or more. On the other side we have a thin
skinned, feeble creature wearing lycra and weighing ounces for every
pound her/his/its adversary weighs.

Doesn't Feeble Flora (or Freddy) ever give any thought about which of
the antagonists is almost assured of coming out last in any contest?


I think the fundamental error is thinking of them as antagonists. Very
few motorists are actually in combat mode. If they were, no cyclist
would survive.

Instead, the roads have people who are trying to get where they are
going, not much different than people walking on a sidewalk. Yes, some
people get impatient, just as New Yorkers do when (say) tourists stop on
a sidewalk to gawk at a building. But the impatience doesn't trigger
attacks.

Instead of an attack, a much more common problem is a motorist who gets
surprised by a bicyclist's unusual move - like passing on the right as
the motorist is turning right. The solution is to not violate
fundamental rules of the road.

In this example, the rule is sometimes called "destination positioning."
That means your road position should correspond to your direction.
Turning left or going straight from the extreme right side of the road
is frequently hazardous. Cyclists need to realize and remember that.


I think that a lot of things like that ought to fall under the heading
of "common sense". I have an intersection about 2 Km from the house
where, depending on where you are going, you will have to turn right
or left. Right at the corner it is 5 lanes wide (that is 5 lanes on
your side and five on the other) and auto traffic will be approaching
the intersection at about 50 kph. The thought of swooping gaily across
five lanes of 50 kph traffic is, to me anyway, a bit daunting :-)

A couple of things that I make it a practice to do is wear bright
colored clothing and make sure that before I make any change in track
-swoop out toward the edge or inward to the center of the road that I
make some sort of physical signal, usually waving my arms.

I also have a flashing white front and flashing red rear light that I
make sure are on in low light conditions. The idea is not to see or be
seen but more to get someone's attention, "Hey! What's that funny
flashing light there?"
--
Cheers,

John B.

 




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