Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 2, 8:55*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:44:07 -0600, A Muzi
wrote:

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote: oh carl that reasoning went out of style somewhere around 1954
even in Kansas

*Tom Sherman wrote:
Even in West Grain Elevator?

jwbinpdx wrote:
Isn't that where they had the "Climbing like a Monkey Trial"?

Here's a typical Kansas hill climb course:
http://www.mtcoks.com/maps/map.jpg

Dear Andrew,

The Kansas Pyrenees:
*http://www.kansastravel.org/gypsumhills.htm

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

The Kansas Flint Hills in the eastern central part of the state are
very hilly. An off road ride through that part of the state.

http://flinthillsdeathride.com/about/

I've ridden across Kansas several times on BAK. There are many hilly
parts of Kansas. For a bicyclist anyway. If you stay on the
interstate in a car you miss the hills. Central part around Manhattan
Kansas has hills. The eastern edge along the north has hills.

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 19:19:23 -0800 (PST), --D-y
wrote:

On Mar 2, 8:55*pm, wrote:

The Kansas Pyrenees:
*http://www.kansastravel.org/gypsumhills.htm

From the pools of sarcasm dripping from my monitor screen, I'm
guessing that Mr. Fogel has, like me, travelled across Kansas by motor
vehicle more than once? --D-y

P. S. I see you are selling wheels again, Carl (having one brand
finish a clear yard ahead in a comparison). g

Dear D,

One theory is that Kansas starts at about the turn-off to the Pueblo
Memorial airport, east of town.

As the link shows, there are actually some pleasant hills in Kansas.

As for the wheels, I just quote Tom Compton and wait for the orders to
roll in.

:-)

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On Mar 3, 3:07 am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.

Firstly, and most importantly: braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.

Secondly: no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.

Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. 18 degrees
ambient. God it was great to get out on the bike again!

Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.

D'ohBoy

the whole weight thing confuses me.
I see plenty of "heavy" riders with expensive bikes and bits and
wonder if it's a case of having deep pockets.
If I weigh 95 kilo's, will I go faster losing 5 kg's of lard or
spending $5k for a 5 kg lighter bike ?

In article
,
" wrote:

On Mar 2, 8:55*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:44:07 -0600, A Muzi
wrote:

datakoll aka gene daniels wrote: oh carl that reasoning went out of style somewhere around 1954
even in Kansas

*Tom Sherman wrote:
Even in West Grain Elevator?

jwbinpdx wrote:
Isn't that where they had the "Climbing like a Monkey Trial"?

Here's a typical Kansas hill climb course:
http://www.mtcoks.com/maps/map.jpg

Dear Andrew,

The Kansas Pyrenees:
*http://www.kansastravel.org/gypsumhills.htm

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

The Kansas Flint Hills in the eastern central part of the state are
very hilly. An off road ride through that part of the state.

http://flinthillsdeathride.com/about/

I've ridden across Kansas several times on BAK. There are many hilly
parts of Kansas. For a bicyclist anyway. If you stay on the
interstate in a car you miss the hills. Central part around Manhattan
Kansas has hills. The eastern edge along the north has hills.

They make a big deal of
hardy pioneer ancestors,
the toughness of the ride,
stay home if you are a weenie,
then require helmets.

--
Michael Press

On Mar 3, 4:17*pm, Henry wrote:
On Mar 3, 3:07 am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:



Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.

Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.

Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.

Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees
ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again!

Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.

D'ohBoy

the whole weight thing confuses me.
I see plenty of "heavy" riders with expensive bikes and bits and
wonder if it's a case of having deep pockets.
If I weigh 95 kilo's, will I go faster losing 5 kg's of lard or
spending $5k for a 5 kg lighter bike ?

Hmmm.... this is a question that has been put forth many a time. And
rather tired, like Master Fogel's weight/time/power charts.

Let me turn that question around: if carbon rims are merely a trendy
(AND dangerous) fashion statement, whose benefits are limited, why
don't we examine the latest crop of alloy rims? Uhhhh.... Jobst
believes that the MA2 is the best rim ever made. But you can't get
those anymore. So let's get some other rim. But anodizing weakens
the rim! And most rims now are anodized. Maybe wood rims are the way
to go. Course wood rims can burn. All you need is spark and oxygen
and those rims are toast! And can you really go that much faster on a
bike with drop bars? Really, somewhat dangerous as the brakes aren't
always right at hand and not really much of a gain there in terms of
aerodynamics. Flat bars, wooden rims now. Stainless spokes?
Really? What is the gain there? A little more durable than zinc
plated but mostly they just stay shiny. So now we have a flat bar
bike with wooden rims and zinc plated spokes.

Now let's examine frame materials. Carbon? According to some
'authorities' here, very very dangerous and poorly understood
material. So that's out. Alloy? Fails catastrophically! OMG,
Timmy, you get off that alloy frame right now, it's about to
explode! Steel? Well, now, if you are talking that newfangled
thinwall ****e, you might as well form it into a coffin. I'm thinking
like mild steel plumbing pipe. But welding is really just a fad. I'm
thinking threaded elbows etc... from the plumbing supply shop will do
the trick.

And what the hell is up with all those gears? Really, one only needs
one in the front and one in the back to go. And bearings? ummmm....
waste of time, just makes your workouts longer.

Now that I think about it, why the hell bike anyway? Too spendy. And
way too dangerous, what with all that alloy and carbon about. Maybe
just walk. Course, you'd need shoes for that. Plus, pretty damn
dangerous. People fall down all the time. I seen it on tv - the old
lady grabs some little device and whines 'Help, I've fallen and I
can't get up!'.

Screw biking. Screw exercise. You retro-whiners have shown me the
light. Someone point me at the cheese and bratwurst, I'm done with
exercise.

D'ohBoy

Henry wrote:
On Mar 3, 3:07 am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.

Firstly, and most importantly: braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.

Secondly: no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.

Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. 18 degrees
ambient. God it was great to get out on the bike again!

Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.

D'ohBoy

the whole weight thing confuses me.
I see plenty of "heavy" riders with expensive bikes and bits and
wonder if it's a case of having deep pockets.
If I weigh 95 kilo's, will I go faster losing 5 kg's of lard or
spending $5k for a 5 kg lighter bike ?

like spending $120k on a porsche when you can only drive 55? dude, some
people /like/ the porsche. and they can afford it. and we're not a
communist nanny state, yet.

"jim beam" wrote:
Henry wrote:
[...]
the whole weight thing confuses me.
I see plenty of "heavy" riders with expensive bikes and bits and
wonder if it's a case of having deep pockets.
If I weigh 95 kilo's, will I go faster losing 5 kg's of lard or
spending $5k for a 5 kg lighter bike ?

like spending $120k on a porsche when you can only drive 55? dude, some
people /like/ the porsche. and they can afford it. and we're not a
communist nanny state, yet.

A tiny fraction of Porsche owners take their cars to weekend track
events and such where the capabilities of the car can be used. The rest
are just trying to impress women with their potential spending ability.
Hell, I have gained on a Boxster on a long on-ramp while driving my
freaking company work truck.

Just like the fat guy who buys a Trek MadOne and the full Lance-A-Like
outfit to ride down the bike path at 20 kph.

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

On Mar 4, 7:08*am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
"jim beam" wrote:
Henry wrote:
[...]
the whole weight thing confuses me.
I see plenty of "heavy" riders with expensive bikes and bits and
wonder if it's a case of having deep pockets.
If I weigh 95 kilo's, will I go faster losing 5 kg's of lard or
spending $5k for a 5 kg lighter bike ?

like spending $120k on a porsche when you can only drive 55? *dude, some
people /like/ the porsche. *and they can afford it. *and we're not a
communist nanny state, yet.

A tiny fraction of Porsche owners take their cars to weekend track
events and such where the capabilities of the car can be used. The rest
are just trying to impress women with their potential spending ability.
Hell, I have gained on a Boxster on a long on-ramp while driving my
freaking company work truck.

Just like the fat guy who buys a Trek MadOne and the full Lance-A-Like
outfit to ride down the bike path at 20 kph.

Let them buy it. It's good for the economy. Plus I liked riding by
the fat guy in the Lance-A-Like outfit when my leg was still broken
and in an ortho boot. I thought to myself, "how must it feel to be
passed by a old guy on a cross bike with 35mm tires and a broken leg
going up hill." Then I realized that he didn't care. It must be really
liberating to not care about being a dork. I think that puts a person
just a little closer to Nirvana. -- Jay Beattie.

jwbinpdx wrote:
On Mar 4, 7:08 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:

Just like the fat guy who buys a Trek MadOne and the full
Lance-A-Like outfit to ride down the bike path at 20 kph.

Let them buy it. It's good for the economy. Plus I liked riding by
the fat guy in the Lance-A-Like outfit when my leg was still broken
and in an ortho boot. I thought to myself, "how must it feel to be
passed by a old guy on a cross bike with 35mm tires and a broken leg
going up hill." Then I realized that he didn't care. It must be really
liberating to not care about being a dork. I think that puts a person
just a little closer to Nirvana. -- Jay Beattie.

"Dork" -- or maybe just a person with physical challenges who loves cycling,
isn't afraid to show it, and makes the best of it. (Sounds eerily similar
to...you. Well, except for the "isn't afraid to show it" part.)

HTH, BS

On Mar 4, 9:56*am, "Bill Sornson" wrote:
jwbinpdx wrote:
On Mar 4, 7:08 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
Just like the fat guy who buys a Trek MadOne and the full
Lance-A-Like outfit to ride down the bike path at 20 kph.
Let them buy it. *It's good for the economy. *Plus I liked riding by
the fat guy in the Lance-A-Like outfit when my leg was still broken
and in an ortho boot. I thought to myself, "how must it feel to be
passed by a old guy on a cross bike with 35mm tires and a broken leg
going up hill." Then I realized that he didn't care. It must be really
liberating to not care about being a dork. I think that puts a person
just a little closer to Nirvana. -- Jay Beattie.

"Dork" -- or maybe just a person with physical challenges who loves cycling,
isn't afraid to show it, and makes the best of it. *(Sounds eerily similar
to...you. *Well, except for the "isn't afraid to show it" part.)

HTH, BS

Plus I liked riding by the fat guy

or maybe just a person with physical challenges

So Bill you are one of those politically correct persons who does not
like to state the truth. To me a fat guy is a fat guy. He ain't
physically challenged. Although I would not be surprised there isn't
some government program in our $787 billion stimulus bill to give aid
and comfort to fat guys.